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Great reading, thanks to everyone who took the time to give us a detailed report. With Avengers, I think it's worth going all the way up to ten Elf squads unless they're going in Falcons. Being able to do the action and shooting at full power just seems worth it to me.
On the RnD Dire Avengers: 6 man units are needed to guarantee RnD, but 2x6 cost 2CP to reserve. If that's the plan it's probably best to start them on the board and then use Phantasm for 2CP to reserve them and also move something else. Makes it slightly more efficient anyway.
I don't think either of those are terrible options, but at that point you're not just squeezing in some cheap RnD-ers, it's a substantial part of a list.
I'd be little worried that the threat of 20 Dire avengers in strategic reserve means that my RnD-ers are more likely to get screened out.
Could someone please clarify what RnD means please?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also aside, my little 2 cents from the one game I've gotten in. Cheap Wraithlords with the ghost glaive seem pretty good for counter charge and objective camping if you have more threatening units. And Wraithguard wirh swords will probably be preferable to me as 5 attacks per model seems much better than the axes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 13:47:45
Rnd = Retreive nachmund data.
Cheap wraithlord's looks like the way to go for me but it depends what you want them to do really.
The blades Vs axe debate is quite interesting, no doubt that I prefer the offence of the swords, they really can blend but defensively they are a bit subpar due to the high level of offence out there, which is why the axes tend to be more popular but I think a squad of blades with swords in a serpent is worth trying.
kingheff wrote: Rnd = Retreive nachmund data.
Cheap wraithlord's looks like the way to go for me but it depends what you want them to do really.
The blades Vs axe debate is quite interesting, no doubt that I prefer the offence of the swords, they really can blend but defensively they are a bit subpar due to the high level of offence out there, which is why the axes tend to be more popular but I think a squad of blades with swords in a serpent is worth trying.
Gotcha, thank you.
Yeah I guess it really just depends on if you want damage or survivability.
Robcio wrote: Could someone please clarify what RnD means please?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also aside, my little 2 cents from the one game I've gotten in. Cheap Wraithlords with the ghost glaive seem pretty good for counter charge and objective camping if you have more threatening units. And Wraithguard wirh swords will probably be preferable to me as 5 attacks per model seems much better than the axes.
I find a lot to agree with this.
With a 6+++, high toughness half decent save, -1D and the a fate dice in your back pocket if you get a 6 (I got at least 1 6 3/4 rounds we played) they can actually be quite hard to shift. I concentrated on enemy AT, high damage weapons and offered up bait like glass canon Vibro canons which are such a big threat they need to be dealt with. Meant that by the later rounds they coulditn reliably bring them down and at that point they are poised to charge and mop up.
However... Are they better than a nice spread of WW or falcons? or the AOK ? I'm not sure.
I know one thing fo sure. I will be using a lot of vibro canons and dire avengers in my next games for a "competative outlook"
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
kingheff wrote: Rnd = Retreive nachmund data.
Cheap wraithlord's looks like the way to go for me but it depends what you want them to do really.
The blades Vs axe debate is quite interesting, no doubt that I prefer the offence of the swords, they really can blend but defensively they are a bit subpar due to the high level of offence out there, which is why the axes tend to be more popular but I think a squad of blades with swords in a serpent is worth trying.
The number of attack the Wraithblades push out is impressive, I prefer the look of Wraithguard but the blades are definitely better than I expected. If you go with Ulthwe or Warding Runes for a custom craftworld you can sidestep the Invul issue.
kingheff wrote: Rnd = Retreive nachmund data.
Cheap wraithlord's looks like the way to go for me but it depends what you want them to do really.
The blades Vs axe debate is quite interesting, no doubt that I prefer the offence of the swords, they really can blend but defensively they are a bit subpar due to the high level of offence out there, which is why the axes tend to be more popular but I think a squad of blades with swords in a serpent is worth trying.
The number of attack the Wraithblades push out is impressive, I prefer the look of Wraithguard but the blades are definitely better than I expected. If you go with Ulthwe or Warding Runes for a custom craftworld you can sidestep the Invul issue.
How do you run the Wraithguard? I have 10 with d-scythes but my friend group doesn't really care about WYSIWYG so I can use them as wraithcannons (not like they could tell the difference anyways), so I would be curious to know how you run them. I was thinking with the new d-scythe range, deep striking 10 would be terrifying
Also, taking ROD and Engage for 2 of my secondaries. Not sure if dropping the Lances off the Serpents is worth it for To The Last? Is Wrath of Khaine worth the 3rd secondary?
Not trying to be rude but to all of you who are posting army lists in this thread- Please put your lists in the Army List sub-forum. This thread should be for tactics and general discussion. If you want people to C&C your lists then you should go to the appropriate place on Dakka./rant
Also, taking ROD and Engage for 2 of my secondaries. Not sure if dropping the Lances off the Serpents is worth it for To The Last? Is Wrath of Khaine worth the 3rd secondary?
I feel this list is an absolute Beast. Its very close to one of my ulthwe builds. I just have a falcon and 2x prism instead of spinners. Feel your choice is better.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/29 19:53:39
kingheff wrote: Rnd = Retreive nachmund data.
Cheap wraithlord's looks like the way to go for me but it depends what you want them to do really.
The blades Vs axe debate is quite interesting, no doubt that I prefer the offence of the swords, they really can blend but defensively they are a bit subpar due to the high level of offence out there, which is why the axes tend to be more popular but I think a squad of blades with swords in a serpent is worth trying.
The number of attack the Wraithblades push out is impressive, I prefer the look of Wraithguard but the blades are definitely better than I expected. If you go with Ulthwe or Warding Runes for a custom craftworld you can sidestep the Invul issue.
How do you run the Wraithguard? I have 10 with d-scythes but my friend group doesn't really care about WYSIWYG so I can use them as wraithcannons (not like they could tell the difference anyways), so I would be curious to know how you run them. I was thinking with the new d-scythe range, deep striking 10 would be terrifying
I think D-Scythes were better in 8th personally, hard to justify the points now.
Popping them out of the webway is one option, there's also a place for running them in a wave serpent and dropping them off on the mid-field. Their ability to still shoot in Melee that's very potent, even when they are charged they are T6 multi-wound and -1D so they're likely to survive and so next turn they're bound to blast a few out of existence on your next turn.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Not trying to be rude but to all of you who are posting army lists in this thread- Please put your lists in the Army List sub-forum. This thread should be for tactics and general discussion. If you want people to C&C your lists then you should go to the appropriate place on Dakka./rant
I don't see an issue as long as it goes into a spoiler for reference.
How else can you go in-depth on a tactics post unless you present your and your enemy army comps?
Theory crafting is one thing but practical tactical feedback is gold dust..
However - I totally see where you are coming from, please spoiler your lists !!!
Otherwise it creates a wall of text..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 20:16:50
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
The extra to wound rolls on the scythes might proc more MWs, and you are not going to loose damage to overkill. But the range drop over the cannons is a little rough, and +5ppm is harsh for what most times is going to be a marginal upgrade.
Might be worth crunching the math, but they just feel expensive for what we get
Edit:
My back of the envelope math puts 5 scythes are about10+2MW, where the cannons are closer to 14, and coin toss on the mortal (vs. T5 no invuln targets). Downside is they cannons only generally kill ~3 things, so a lot of potential for overkill unless shooting at real chunky targets.
No buffs, and not counting the points
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 20:28:12
Nevelon wrote: The extra to wound rolls on the scythes might proc more MWs, and you are not going to loose damage to overkill. But the range drop over the cannons is a little rough, and +5ppm is harsh for what most times is going to be a marginal upgrade.
Might be worth crunching the math, but they just feel expensive for what we get
better then 8" .. if it works out of DS I dont think the range is that much of a problem. can always auto-advance 6" and eat the -1. you'd get a 23" threat range following a DS drop.
Dscythes with doom, guide and fortune sound tasty.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
what is you guys normal way of deploying hawks and baharoth if there is no indirect. on the table or in deep strike? not being able to take off after deeping in is a little limiting, Imo.
Same actually goes for warp spiders, I guess. that is how it works, right? No battle focus move in the turn they enter from reserves.
Yeah D-Scythes losing Auto-Hit was a big loss. Meanwhile Fire Dragons have auto-wound at <9", so that's one less power you're relying on your Farseer to have and you can fit more in a transport.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah D-Scythes losing Auto-Hit was a big loss. Meanwhile Fire Dragons have auto-wound at <9", so that's one less power you're relying on your Farseer to have and you can fit more in a transport.
True
Im considering a bieltan based list with a natural leader spirit seer and a blob of 10 d scythes and the AOK as main alpha units, backed up by farseers, some vibros dire avengers, stormies and triple wraithlord. I think that list has a lot of potnetial. Im going to try it in two weeks time, providing my opponent doesn't mind me using the old metal AOK model, I haven't got around to doing anything with my FW one.
Reroll all hits, reroll 1's to wound don't need farseer support if doom becomes untenable.
Can I just check you can cast fortune on the AOK ? The only limit I an see is either core or character and he does have character keyword.
Has anyone run AOK with fortune ? Sounds disgusting
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 22:59:58
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah D-Scythes losing Auto-Hit was a big loss. Meanwhile Fire Dragons have auto-wound at <9", so that's one less power you're relying on your Farseer to have and you can fit more in a transport.
True
Im considering a bieltan based list with a natural leader spirit seer and a blob of 10 d scythes and the AOK as main alpha units, backed up by farseers, some vibros dire avengers, stormies and triple wraithlord. I think that list has a lot of potnetial. Im going to try it in two weeks time, providing my opponent doesn't mind me using the old metal AOK model, I haven't got around to doing anything with my FW one.
Reroll all hits, reroll 1's to wound don't need farseer support if doom becomes untenable.
Can I just check you can cast fortune on the AOK ?
The only limit I an see is either core or character and he does have character keyword.
Has anyone run AOK with fortune ? Sounds disgusting
I'd be surprised if you can find an opponent who wouldn't allow the old metal Avatar of Khaine. The new Avatar is brand new, and the FW one was always a nice and over priced model.
I ran AOK with Fortune but my opponent was able to deny it thanks to Shadows in the Warp. It's a great combination. Do you plan on footslogging the D-Scythes, webway gate or wave serpents? I think with the AOK and three Wraithlords you have a good target saturation, unfortunately anti-tank weapons are all the rage this edition so they may not last as long as you'd expect. I've got 3 Wraith Lords and a Wraithseer and have been wondering how best to use them without getting shot off the board too early.
@kingheff
That looks like a really fun list! I'm hopeful the Guardians pull their weight. I bet that would absolutely shred a horde list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 23:22:07
2022/03/29 23:21:59
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah D-Scythes losing Auto-Hit was a big loss. Meanwhile Fire Dragons have auto-wound at <9", so that's one less power you're relying on your Farseer to have and you can fit more in a transport.
True
Im considering a bieltan based list with a natural leader spirit seer and a blob of 10 d scythes and the AOK as main alpha units, backed up by farseers, some vibros dire avengers, stormies and triple wraithlord. I think that list has a lot of potnetial. Im going to try it in two weeks time, providing my opponent doesn't mind me using the old metal AOK model, I haven't got around to doing anything with my FW one.
Reroll all hits, reroll 1's to wound don't need farseer support if doom becomes untenable.
Can I just check you can cast fortune on the AOK ?
The only limit I an see is either core or character and he does have character keyword.
Has anyone run AOK with fortune ? Sounds disgusting
I'd be surprised if you can find an opponent who wouldn't allow the old metal Avatar of Khaine. The new Avatar is brand new, and the FW one was always a nice and over priced model.
I ran AOK with Fortune but my opponent was able to deny it thanks to Shadows in the Warp. It's a great combination. Do you plan on footslogging the D-Scythes, webway gate or wave serpents? I think with the AOK and three Wraithlords you have a good target saturation, unfortunately anti-tank weapons are all the rage this edition so they may not last as long as you'd expect. I've got 3 Wraith Lords and a Wraithseer and have been wondering how best to use them without getting shot off the board too early.
@kingheff
That looks like a really fun list! I'm hopeful the Guardians pull their weight. I bet that would absolutely shred a horde list.
A blob of 9 in the web way getting them to hit what needs hititng. Dire avengers, vibros and stormies to clear out any potnetial chaff screens.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/29 23:24:27
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I like the aesthetics of vibrocannons blasting away with shockwaves and dismantling every futuristic screw and rivet on a target but they seem pretty hampered by 9e board placements with obscuring terrain out the wazoo.
Let us know how your storm guardians work out. I have a few with fusion pistols from either 2e or 3e in storage somewhere.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 04:08:05
Played a game against Imperial Fists last week and holy hell - it was like Craftworld Kryptonite.
I'll start by saying that I conceeded at the end of battle round three, despite actually winning at the time on points but I had a Farseer and a unit of Fire Dragons left on the table and it was very clear that my opponent would make up the shortfall in points over the remaining two turns.
I've never played against IF before so didn't quite know what to target or expect.
The IF's ability to ignore cover with AP1 weapons literally shredded through my infantry and there was so much of it, there was no way I could pass all the saves.
He won the turn one roll and castled his entire army for two rounds, making me come out to him (in hindsight, perhaps i didn't have to take the bait?)
I really don't enjoy playing against gunlines so it wasn't the most 'fun' game for me regardless of the result, but it was interesting to see how the CW dealth with it none-the-less (spoiler - not very well).
Terrain was sparce with a few places to hide, but again, his ability to ignore cover meant that unless I was entirely obscured, I may as well have been standing out in the open.
Certainly makes me consider a far-flung CW with the ignores cover rule...
In any case - it was a very well played game by my opponent and a learning experience for me.
Any thoughts on how you'd counter such an army are welcomed!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/30 08:31:52
Adeptus Mechanicus Tyranids
2022/03/30 10:25:27
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
I actually have these models, less a few weapon options not magnetized on the Wave Serpents. Very interesting, though I am a bit concerned about not having any harder hitting weapons.
Argive. Dedicated Transport and Troop choices are not subject to Rule of Three.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
So if you take the Yncarne in an Auxiliary Support detachment, you can still get your Craftword bonuses on the rest of the army, but lose Strands of Fate?
Crafter91 wrote: Played a game against Imperial Fists last week and holy hell - it was like Craftworld Kryptonite.
I'll start by saying that I conceeded at the end of battle round three, despite actually winning at the time on points but I had a Farseer and a unit of Fire Dragons left on the table and it was very clear that my opponent would make up the shortfall in points over the remaining two turns.
I've never played against IF before so didn't quite know what to target or expect.
The IF's ability to ignore cover with AP1 weapons literally shredded through my infantry and there was so much of it, there was no way I could pass all the saves.
He won the turn one roll and castled his entire army for two rounds, making me come out to him (in hindsight, perhaps i didn't have to take the bait?)
I really don't enjoy playing against gunlines so it wasn't the most 'fun' game for me regardless of the result, but it was interesting to see how the CW dealth with it none-the-less (spoiler - not very well).
Terrain was sparce with a few places to hide, but again, his ability to ignore cover meant that unless I was entirely obscured, I may as well have been standing out in the open.
Certainly makes me consider a far-flung CW with the ignores cover rule...
In any case - it was a very well played game by my opponent and a learning experience for me.
Any thoughts on how you'd counter such an army are welcomed!
There can be 4 reasons for loosing this:
reason 1 and 2: You should have the speed to move mid-field behind obscuring terrain. So you either don't have that speed in your army (reason 1) or you don't play with decent terrain (reason 2). Current damage output in 40k games means you need decent terrain, and if you don't then the player with the first turn wins.
reason 3: You didn't know how the enemies army works. Was this crucial? would you played different with the knowledge you have now?
reason 4: you took the bait and should have focused on the objectives and not about killing. This is the most common mistake. You don't need all the objectives, you just need to score more then your opponent. you got to think ahead.
Crafter91 wrote: Played a game against Imperial Fists last week and holy hell - it was like Craftworld Kryptonite.
I'll start by saying that I conceeded at the end of battle round three, despite actually winning at the time on points but I had a Farseer and a unit of Fire Dragons left on the table and it was very clear that my opponent would make up the shortfall in points over the remaining two turns.
I've never played against IF before so didn't quite know what to target or expect.
The IF's ability to ignore cover with AP1 weapons literally shredded through my infantry and there was so much of it, there was no way I could pass all the saves.
He won the turn one roll and castled his entire army for two rounds, making me come out to him (in hindsight, perhaps i didn't have to take the bait?)
I really don't enjoy playing against gunlines so it wasn't the most 'fun' game for me regardless of the result, but it was interesting to see how the CW dealth with it none-the-less (spoiler - not very well).
Terrain was sparce with a few places to hide, but again, his ability to ignore cover meant that unless I was entirely obscured, I may as well have been standing out in the open.
Certainly makes me consider a far-flung CW with the ignores cover rule...
In any case - it was a very well played game by my opponent and a learning experience for me.
Any thoughts on how you'd counter such an army are welcomed!
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
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