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Yeah, its unconventional, but I need the stones, I want sunstorm and I need a ghostwalk that can be where the action is. Not sure this is the optimal configuration, though.
The board consisted of a total of 2 large LOS blocking pieces, 4 smaller LOC blocking pieces, 2 forests, and 2 sets of crates.
The list worked like this...
During deployment he drops the stealth suits as close to my deployment zone as possible, all three (did try to screen them out with my Rangers but he got the first drop) puts all three crisis suits into Deep strike, and positions the 2 commanders with the 2 riptides elsewhere on the board.
We then roll for first turn.
IF he goes first, he selects Mont'Ka and he drops homing beacons next to each stealth suit and drops the crisis suits on those beacons first turn.
IF he goes second he chooses Ky'Yun (sp?) and sucks up the stealth suits into strategic reserves using the Ky'Yun special rule.
So, when he drops he uses most of his CP through giving rerolls to Hit and Rerolls to wound on two different crisis suits and a couple of other "minor" strats. The end result was that I had lost over 1200 points of stuff before I even had a chance to move when he went first, and i saw another game where he went second and dropped T2 and did the same...
Like I said earlier, I tried screening him out but that failed... I thought about deploying on the back board edge, but then I would loose on points... and even when he did drop and I had a Nightspinner ready with Forewarned I couldn't get passed his 4++ invul save.
TBH, I don't even think Halries could withstand this...
If you had everything in the dex available, what would be the counter? Because I can't think of one...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/11 16:18:02
Sazzlefrats wrote: What were you fielding? What's on the riptides? HBC or Ion?
Offhand, I would try waveserpent spam with the custom trait that gives +1 to saves vs 1d weapons
Wow didn't realize that Kauyon / Mont'ka is a choice before the first turn.
He was running Ion Plasma on the Riptides...
The coldstar commanders were running... relic flamer on one, burst cannons, and the other was cyclic ion and burst cannons
2022/04/11 17:01:53
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
So I had my first game with my new Eldar since I sold my old Eldar in 7th edition. My list is as follows:
Farseer on jetbike,
Autarch with mandiblasters, fusion gun, scorpion sword, jumpback, (the sword due to WYSIWYG but it actually sucks)
Asurmen
2 x warlocks (one with the relic pistol)
1 x wraithlord with EML and glaive (Not BL due to WYSIWYG)
10 x scorpions with Exarch with the bigger sword and power that does mortals of 5+
10 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with double guns and shred power
5 x rangers
10 x guardians with a Shuriken cannon platform
10 x guardians
6 x bikes all Shuriken cannons
3 x warwalkers with 1 Shuriken cannon and one BL 1 x waveserpent with twin BL and Shuriken Cannon and targeting etc.
1 x waveserpent with twin Shuriken cannon and Shuriken Cannon and targeting etc.
First I know this list is like 60 points short, but it was all the models I have (I got fire dragons and shining spears coming). Second, this list is built from models I like and models I could get cheap on ebay, so it is no optimized. Third I play more casual, so yes I know a better list would have more BL on the walkers and waveserpents etc. but I really don't want to BL spam in my lists.
I played custodies in a tempest of war game (by the way the tempest of war cards are AMAZING). My custom craft world was hail of doom and master crafters (although I forgot to use master crafters the whole game lol). He had Tragen, bike captain, a large dreadnought, a tank, one squad of the wing guys, and then several squads of shield spears and shooting dudes and an sniper assassin (who I killed first turn).
I am not going to go over the game turn by turn but my general thoughts are as follows. Eldar has a great amount of firepower. He told me his custodies never took a beating the way they did in that game other than Tau. I was able to inflict heavy damage on his infantry with the hail of doom Shuriken. Against an army not as tough as Custodies, it would have been devastating. The Hail of doom trait with an all Shuriken army is really really good, and I did not get to use Doom at all due to this stupid Strat they have that turns off re-rolls (although made him burn up his CP).
Some stand out units
The Autarch with the fusion and spider jump back is a really good annoy unit. He finished off the tank and his ability to BF on 2D6 makes him able to hope back to safety pretty reliable.
The Striking Scorpions I think are underrated. I was able to forward deploy them to capture an objective early, then they got charged by two units, but I interrupted with 6 left and killed a whole squad of the shooting guys. The mandiblaster MW can be clutch, and the Exarch's causing MW on 5+ is extremely deadly (he has 7 attacks with the upgrades). I really did not think they would be all that good against Custodies but they did some work.
The Dire Avengers with hail of doom are awesome. I don't know if they would be as good without that, but with it they are able to really put the hurt on elite units of infantry especially with the 5+ Shuriken ability from the Exarch. And once they lost a model they can shoot again with a strat which is really good.
Note on the Aspect Warriors, the 5++ really helps them survives as opposed to previous editions.
Asurmen, I don't think anyone thinks of this guy as a competitive choice, but I like him. He was able to kill Tragen (although Tragen was softened up) and his melee attacks are pretty good. He is not a top tier CC characters (like that damn bike captain, i mean wholly crap is that guy under-costed) but he is enough of a threat that he can make you opponent have to think how to deal with him. Also the sword causing d3 MWs on 6s is combines really with with the Strands of Fate auto wounds. That his how I got Tragen, was two auto wounds for 2 d3 MW on him. I think he might be a bit overpriced at 150 points, but I was happy with his prefromance. oh and 3++ on him is really good for making him hard to kill (in fact he tanked a bunch of shooting and fighting and only the bike captain with his ignore invuls was able to finally put him down).
So I hope this is helpful. I would say try out some Scorpions and Dire Avengers with hail of doom.
Yeah, its unconventional, but I need the stones, I want sunstorm and I need a ghostwalk that can be where the action is. Not sure this is the optimal configuration, though.
I just dont see the point of them apart from being better shining spears. (Due to invuln and number of wounds)
The conclave limitation to just 3 absolutely sucks. Runes of battle just dont seem worth it since jinx nerf. The single unit warlocks seem well overpriced.
I took wraithseers with BL in my first game. Im not mad at it, they just suffer from lack of core and -1d.
Its sad. I was hoping we will finaly see goid waelocks but currently i just cant seem to justify their points.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
It's kind of ironic actually that they can't benefit from many of their own buffs. Not being Core and all... who knows... maybe we'll see an update so that units of warlocks become core.
Yeah, its unconventional, but I need the stones, I want sunstorm and I need a ghostwalk that can be where the action is. Not sure this is the optimal configuration, though.
I just dont see the point of them apart from being better shining spears. (Due to invuln and number of wounds)
The conclave limitation to just 3 absolutely sucks. Runes of battle just dont seem worth it since jinx nerf. The single unit warlocks seem well overpriced.
I took wraithseers with BL in my first game. Im not mad at it, they just suffer from lack of core and -1d.
Its sad. I was hoping we will finaly see goid waelocks but currently i just cant seem to justify their points.
60 is a bit steep for a lone one, but I need him to be able to get to the front with ghost walk and faulchus is not an option as he needs the helm for the spell. so yeah, subpar choice sadly. sometimes there is no way around it. I like the list to have that autocharge option great t1 with the banshees to take out something key out of a falcon, and in the late game it can be clutch with baharoth for shoot, teleport, charge shenanigans. but it might be a tool I will have to remove from the list as I develop it further. its not as important as if the list ran, say, 10 wraith blades out of deep strike or whatever.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: So you can have an entirely Quin army with the ynnari keyword and they all get strands of fate ?
I think ynarri quins and drukhari units still require an equal number of craftworlds units to be a battleforged army unless I'm missing something?
The requirement of balancing craftworld to none craftworld in each FOC slot is still there, so no 100% Quin Ynnari. The FAQ also doesn't give strands of fate to anyone, you still need to have the ability on your datasheet to use the ability - the FAQ only stops Ynnari from automatically loosing the ability if you soup in any non-craftworld units to a Ynnari detachment.
2022/04/14 11:25:35
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
TTL : Night Spinner, Avatar, Yncarne Any Warpcraft: Farseer Skyrunner does Doom + Action, Quickens back to safety. Stranglehold, RnD
Taking the Yncarne means you lose Strands of Fate, so you really wouldn't want it in an Ulthwe list, but a Mobile Doom list doesn't care as much. The Yncarne also works very well with Wave Serpents. Parking one on a center objective to score Stranglehold creates quite the puzzle: Does the opponent have the firepower to kill a Wave Serpent and the Yncarne that pops out? If they do, can they position that firepower to account for all the places the Yncarne might pop up in? Within an inch of a Serpent can be a pretty big area, and with good positioning it can easily be the other side off a LoS blocking wall.
The Yncarne is definitely worth it's 250pts, is it also worth 2CP and losing Strands of Fate? I'm not sure, but this list feels like one of the best ways to get it in.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess the first question post data slate is: are Night Spinners and Shadow Weavers completely dead?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/14 15:08:25
2022/04/15 04:57:32
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
I guess the first question post data slate is: are Night Spinners and Shadow Weavers completely dead? ****
Ok so my thought on the Nerffs to LoS barrage. Obv our support weapon shadow weavers took a huge hit.
10 points for a crystal matrix helps our Doom weavers ignore the -1 too shoot, however there -2 ap is now only -1 if out of LoS...ouch.
Upgrading Support weapons too D-cannons, and maybe buffing them with "re-roll 1s" or Guide, with a complete re-roll on missed shots. The 4+ BS on the support is not "horrid" however you could only buff each squad with 1 buff, so max of 2 squads of 3....."Shrug" blame the Tau for ruining Barrage for everyone...... you can also use resonator shards too give re-rolls too hit....lots of options.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 05:01:00
I think it's safe to say that the heavily skewed indirect lists are fairly screwed. Especially if marines make a resurgence, which I'm sure they will. Nightspinners against marines in cover, assuming they can't see them, get a 2+ now.
With ignore cover and Jinx they can work but they require a bit more effort.
With Armor of Contempt now a thing, does CWE have enough shooting to remove a 5 man intercessor squad in cover (let alone terminators) with equivalent points?
With Armor of Contempt now a thing, does CWE have enough shooting to remove a 5 man intercessor squad in cover (let alone terminators) with equivalent points?
Yes. Easily.
Eldar have fantastic mass firepower.
Eldar are actually one of the strongest armies in the game now after this nerf to one of their primary predators in indirect fire, and you don't have to build for custodes any more cause custodes are trashed.
2022/04/17 05:10:05
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Just wondering if the new AOC rule helps one of my favorite elder weapons, the star cannon, be more viable. The loss of AP on the shuriken weapons vs many factions certainly brings it into discussion IMHO
That's a good point, with Armor of Contempt the Star Cannon looks a lot more appealing, but if you're doing a Hail of Doom list I'd think Shuriken Cannons might still be the way to go.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Thought I'd give you a quick recap of a TTS game I played today against Salamanders.
I was running my seven serpents, three squads of ten Elf avengers, four ten elf guardians, autarch, warlock and Farseer skyrunners list. I'm still using Hail of doom and Mobile fighters traits.
The sally player was trying out a new gravis list to exploit the armour of contempt/no re-rolls to wound buffs they received.
I was a bit concerned as he had three squads of heavy intercessors, three squads of five aggressors with flamers, two squads of three Eradicators with a multi melta, three contemptors with multi meltas, Adrax Agatone and a primaris lieutenant. So that's a lot of T5 wounds ignoring my non shuriken bonus AP.
We played Abandoned Relics. I chose Engage, RND and psychic interrogation. He had Bring it down, Grind them down and stranglehold.
I won the roll off and did very little except disembark a squad of gaurdians to RND.
His first turn he moved his aggressors, dreads and the characters out but didn't make it to any objectives and his multi meltas whiffed so a very quiet turn all around.
My second turn I moved out, disembarked some guardians, retrieved in the second of my deployment quarters, took down a couple of the contemptors, did interrogation. Not a bad turn but nothing amazing but I'd tried to keep my powder dry.
His second turn hurt! He bought his eradicators out of reserve, took out four serpents (one got punched by aggressors) and a squad of guardians, made the center objective and looked pretty strongly placed to push out with two squads of aggressors, Adrax and the lieutenant.
I knew I had to hit him hard and I did. The Dire avengers all disembarked and combined with some guardians took out a squad of Aggressors and reduced the other two squads to two each. I also took out a squad of Eradicators and the remaining dread. Plinked a couple of wounds of the characters and tied up a squad of heavy intercessors with a serpent. Continued to score well on points.
His turn three he managed to still hit hard, killing a lot of infantry but the game was getting away from him. He only got four on the primary.
My turns four and five were mostly just clearing up and moving around for points.
He ended up with just three heavy intercessors and two Eradicators which just moved onto objectives to get some primary in the last turn.
It ended up as an 84 to 57 win for the craftworlds. I got nine on interrogation because I missed it first turn and there were no characters alive on turn five. Ten on engage and twelve on Nachmund, with avengers being able to shoot and action coming in very handy. In a way Doom being useless was good because it made interrogation and guide a good combo for 1 cp.
He got ten on bring it down, but only six on stranglehold and three on grind.
It was a good game but his durability, good as it is and he said he's been good on that front even if his army's a bit slow, but it couldn't survive the massed shuriken.
He said he was shocked by how brutal the firepower was and that wave serpents were a real pain for him so I think that the list did really well into what is probably the worst marine matchup for my list. The lack of Doom to punish a particular unit was a chore but hail of doom and mobile fighters got me through so I'm very happy.
OUCH! Normally that's a hard turn to recover from but that sounds like this is your heavy Transport + Guardian & DA list so I'm guessing you had a few Wave Serpents to spare.
Nice report, it matches my experience where biding your time Turn 1 and luring the opponent out tends to go well for us, especially if you luck out into a few Saving Throw dice with Strands of Fate on turn 1.
OUCH! Normally that's a hard turn to recover from but that sounds like this is your heavy Transport + Guardian & DA list so I'm guessing you had a few Wave Serpents to spare.
Nice report, it matches my experience where biding your time Turn 1 and luring the opponent out tends to go well for us, especially if you luck out into a few Saving Throw dice with Strands of Fate on turn 1.
Yeah, I'm still running seven serpents, can't say I've ever lost four in a turn before though. Sallies definitely slap though, one of them was to flamers from one squad, thankfully they were slow.
I tend to be aggressive with my guardian serpents and hide the avenger serpents, I will often send a couple forward for engage/screening/tying stuff up etc.
But the list has been performing well, lost a close game to the light harlies gunboat spam list and a few others to Custodes /T'au and nids mostly down to my bad play. In the hands of a better player I think it's very tough to beat, the serpents eat a lot of firepower and the shurikens just shred everything.
2022/04/20 01:58:27
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
bullyboy wrote: Just wondering if the new AOC rule helps one of my favorite elder weapons, the star cannon, be more viable. The loss of AP on the shuriken weapons vs many factions certainly brings it into discussion IMHO
Most people were already boosting scat lasers over shuriken outside of hail of doom. This just cements that anything that can go scats, should, unless you build into HoD.
2022/04/20 09:25:36
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
bullyboy wrote: Just wondering if the new AOC rule helps one of my favorite elder weapons, the star cannon, be more viable. The loss of AP on the shuriken weapons vs many factions certainly brings it into discussion IMHO
Most people were already boosting scat lasers over shuriken outside of hail of doom. This just cements that anything that can go scats, should, unless you build into HoD.
I can understand the benefits of scats into quins and chaff but without ignore cover/jinx they are going to bounce hard against marines, custards and anything with a good save basically.
I think scats can be good and some are a good include in a list but I'm not sure I'd want too many.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Eldar- 4436 pts
The Dire avengers all disembarked and combined with some guardians took out a squad of Aggressors and reduced the other two squads to two each. I also took out a squad of Eradicators and the remaining dread. Plinked a couple of wounds of the characters and tied up a squad of heavy intercessors with a serpent. Continued to score well on points.
Sallies definitely slap though, one of them was to flamers from one squad, thankfully they were slow.
