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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If Demiurg where Squats to which... something happened that changed them into a different race, would they be ab-ab-humans?

They would be cd-human.

(/bad joke)

Voss wrote:
Open trade with multiple factions rather than 'if its Other, it needs to die.' might well be one of the defining traits of the faction.

There is a lot of space to work with here, and a lot of elements that would help build an identity, rather than automatically 'dilute' it.

This. Also, its funny to say "they are going to concentrate on what makes squats squats" when they aren't even called squats anymore.

 Kanluwen wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Yeah - I wonder if they'll do something similar to Fyreslayers & Kharadron Overlords in AoS...

Fyreslayers and Overlords is more of a philosophical/religious ideology mismatch rather than two distinctive races.
I'd be disappointed if Demiurg ended up being something like that, given that art has portrayed them as looking noticeably "alien" when it comes to their facial features.

Theres no official published art of the Demiurg. Theres one, maybe two, pieces of concept art that came out of Jes Goodwin or whomevers notebook that people have seen at Games Days/Warhammer Fests, etc. over the years but by virtue of it being a concept sketch in his personal notebook, which includes lots of other art pieces for things which either don't exist or are counter to canon, it is decidedly non-canonical and likely also "unofficial" otherwise one would assume that it would have been under NDA and thus not showable.

Yes I think they sound like they are distinct from each other - Demiurg obviously have different tech to squats. It gives the setting more depth if there are two different races . Means Demiurg can appear later as something else either as part of the Tau release or through Killteam.

Distinct != alien. Americans and Russians are distinct from each other and have different technology, yet we are both human. In 40k terms Drukhari, Harlequins, Exodites, and Craftworlds likewise have distinct tech, yet all are Aeldari. Its entirely possible for the Demiurg to be the Exodites to the Leagues of Votanns Craftworlds (or whatever the appropriate analogy there is), the Demiurg being spacefaring star-miners or whatever it is they are have developed highly specialized tech that are prized in certain applications by the more terrestrial Leagues of Votann. Worth pointing out that Demiurg are supposedly big on ion and fusion tech and assisted the Tau with the design/manufacture of them, the Squats gun design loosely references the design language and geometry of both (which is probably why people are finding the model to be so Tau-like).

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think it's interesting that they're still called "Leagues" as the new article mentions a group of strongholds (mining colonies) were called a League, which sort of implies they still have control of planets.

Strongly suspect the following: Tyranids invade > Strongholds send out their best to drive them off > overwhelming numbers make this futile > retreat to the holds and weld themselves in with their power supplies and hydroponics > Ancestors mask their presence from the Hive Mind (possibly a Noble Sacrifice too) > Tyranids consume everything outside the Strongholds and leave > survivors emerge onto their brand new barren, airless world > other leagues follow suit, some don’t even bother fighting and just bottle up before the ‘nids even arrive > LoV have to refactor their entire society and figure out what to do next > now we get to find out.

Seems unnecessarily complicated. Could be as simple as - Tyranids show up, devour a bunch of squat worlds, shadow in the warp cuts the remainder off from communication (maybe even burns out all the astropaths present as well) a number of mining colonies, etc. go unnoticed by the hive mind due to low population numbers and subterranean presence of the inhabitants/low apparent biomass from orbit, etc. Tyranids leave, holds slowly reestablish contact with eachother but are on the fringes of imperial space and have no telepaths with which to reestablish contact with the Imperium, and so develop independently for a few hundred/thousand years until contact is reestablished.

 Togusa wrote:

JWBS wrote:
What remains on the old "Never gonna get it list but now it's here"? We have squats, plastic (mini) Thunderhawk, Zoat, plastic deffkoptas, Eldar Corsairs, a couple of others I'm sure I'm forgetting. Wheat else could be coming? Exodites? Chaos militia? (seems I remember something credible on the recent legit rumour list). Korks??? Gotta be more that people have been wishlisting since forever.
/Edit - Dark Future perchance? (kinda maybe with the new Necro box).

In the 8th Codex for Eldar, they specifically mention a redacted faction of Slaneeshi Eldar. Chaos Eldar? What about Chaos Sisters of Battle, or Chaos Tau. Those could all be options. Maybe the Return of the Old Ones?

In the past these were referred to as Crone World Eldar.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:


Seems unnecessarily complicated. Could be as simple as - Tyranids show up, devour a bunch of squat worlds, shadow in the warp cuts the remainder off from communication (maybe even burns out all the astropaths present as well) a number of mining colonies, etc. go unnoticed by the hive mind due to low population numbers and subterranean presence of the inhabitants/low apparent biomass from orbit, etc. Tyranids leave, holds slowly reestablish contact with eachother but are on the fringes of imperial space and have no telepaths with which to reestablish contact with the Imperium, and so develop independently for a few hundred/thousand years until contact is reestablished.

I was under the impression that Tyranids tend not to just ignore a world (outside of some Necron worlds), and that being underground wouldn't help? They take everything, even down to certain minerals and the atmosphere, I don't see any underground colonies big enough to support life wouldn't be able to be found.

Someone else posted the concept of living ancestors shielding survivors from the hive mind. Equally some magical null-warp tech could be used for the same purpose.

 The Phazer wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or maybe they find a way of reconciling the Demiurg fluff with the new Squat fluff.

Nah, keep them as scaly space Wolverines. No real reason there can’t be two short but bulky species.

Yeah, they'll probably never do anything with the Demiurg but there's no reason to torturously try and suggest they and the Squats are the same race, any more than there's a need to suggest humans and Eldar are the same because they're similar heights. Maybe they'll drop a line somewhere that Demiurg almost never make planetfall and hence don't make sense in 40k proper.

Jervis Johnson: Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based ont he Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more lilely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060129002420/http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:


Seems unnecessarily complicated. Could be as simple as - Tyranids show up, devour a bunch of squat worlds, shadow in the warp cuts the remainder off from communication (maybe even burns out all the astropaths present as well) a number of mining colonies, etc. go unnoticed by the hive mind due to low population numbers and subterranean presence of the inhabitants/low apparent biomass from orbit, etc. Tyranids leave, holds slowly reestablish contact with eachother but are on the fringes of imperial space and have no telepaths with which to reestablish contact with the Imperium, and so develop independently for a few hundred/thousand years until contact is reestablished.

I was under the impression that Tyranids tend not to just ignore a world (outside of some Necron worlds), and that being underground wouldn't help? They take everything, even down to certain minerals and the atmosphere, I don't see any underground colonies big enough to support life wouldn't be able to be found.

Not sure, but from what I recall Tyranids are not "omniscient" with regards to stellar cartography, I.E. they don't know the location of every planet and star and can/will overlook entire systems even as they consume all the other systems surrounding it.

 Flinty wrote:
Someone else posted the concept of living ancestors shielding survivors from the hive mind. Equally some magical null-warp tech could be used for the same purpose.

Lving Ancestors were powerful Psykers, the Hive Mind Shadow in the warp severely affects Psykers to the point communication and abilities become much, much more difficult. I don't see how using psychic abilities to hide from a race that blocks psychic abilities on a large scale could work, especially when it's something that affects races like the Eldar much more than others.

Fair point. the more technological kind of space magic it is then

The correct answer is that when it all seemed lost and the enemy endless, the Lamenters Space Marine Chapter came to their aid...

So the Squats took advantage of the distraction and escaped through the backdoor while the Tyranids were chewing the Lamenters.

Or the homeworlds were all devoured like an Olive, pips included. Nothing survived that. Except the ones already engaged in outworld activities like exploring space hulks etc.

 Flinty wrote:
Fair point. the more technological kind of space magic it is then

Alien Space Bats

Obviously, since a good deal of them were completly egg-shaped, the Tyranids couldn't properly bite them, so they just left them be.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

JWBS wrote:
What remains on the old "Never gonna get it list but now it's here"? We have squats, plastic (mini) Thunderhawk, Zoat, plastic deffkoptas, Eldar Corsairs, a couple of others I'm sure I'm forgetting. Wheat else could be coming? Exodites? Chaos militia? (seems I remember something credible on the recent legit rumour list). Korks??? Gotta be more that people have been wishlisting since forever.
/Edit - Dark Future perchance? (kinda maybe with the new Necro box).

In the 8th Codex for Eldar, they specifically mention a redacted faction of Slaneeshi Eldar. Chaos Eldar? What about Chaos Sisters of Battle, or Chaos Tau. Those could all be options. Maybe the Return of the Old Ones?

In the past these were referred to as Crone World Eldar.

"Of all the servants of Chaos there are few as truly damned as the Eldar Chaos Champions, nor any as utterly at the mercy of their Chaos masters. They are lost to the Eldar race, unacknowledged and forever forgotten by their kinfolk, their souls eternally barred from peace."

I think it would be really cool to make a unit with shields, like those HH marines with them. That would make them somewhat unique to 40K and give them that Dwarf-vibe.


There use to be..... in the dark ages..... a really cool thread about Varingyr on Warseer. It was a veritable mine of information on a possible way to re-brand and build the squat line. It was a fun read to see how so many folks interpreted it.

Probably can just google Varingyr now to find it.

 Olthannon wrote:

I assume real concrete stuff is still a month or two away. It sounds like the trikes and biker stuff is not coming back.

I expect we'll see bikes. Many of the humanoid factions have them in one form or another. But I also expect that they'll look different than they did in the past.

Eumerin wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:

I assume real concrete stuff is still a month or two away. It sounds like the trikes and biker stuff is not coming back.

I expect we'll see bikes. Many of the humanoid factions have them in one form or another. But I also expect that they'll look different than they did in the past.

Give them burrower bikes with drills on the front that can move through breachable terrain (but can't fly up it vertically)!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If Demiurg where Squats to which... something happened that changed them into a different race, would they be ab-ab-humans?

Abba-humans. They dance through the universe.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I'm intrigued what this could mean:

The new background for the Leagues of Votann builds off the old lore in interesting ways – including how they interact with their ancestors.

Perhaps their "ancestors" are more literal this time around, as actual ghosts on the battlefield? We've seen advanced civilizations weaponize the dead before, with the Eldars' infinity circuits.

Perhaps the "Extremely heretical technology" mentioned is to do with this; creating AI facsimiles of their ancestors in machine recreations of a typical squat body.

There is a rumour engine picture of a fully mechanical leg that's different from the mechanical foot we've seen so far:

I guess this is the new exo armour.

I’m starting to be afraid the metal hobbit feet are going to be a thing.

Maybe squat DNA is so tough it eventually forced the Tyranid fleet that devoured them to re-spawn more squats?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Maybe squat DNA is so tough it eventually forced the Tyranid fleet that devoured them to re-spawn more squats?

“Attack of the Squats”… yerg…

 Flinty wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Maybe squat DNA is so tough it eventually forced the Tyranid fleet that devoured them to re-spawn more squats?

“Attack of the Squats”… yerg…

I'd imagine they'd just taste soooo bitter that the Hivemind was like "umm, nope" and left...

 Olthannon wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If Demiurg where Squats to which... something happened that changed them into a different race, would they be ab-ab-humans?

Abba-humans. They dance through the universe.

They were allowed to return after their leader sent an impassioned message to Guilliman, asking him to just "take a chance on me"

N3p3nth3 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I'm intrigued what this could mean:

The new background for the Leagues of Votann builds off the old lore in interesting ways – including how they interact with their ancestors.

Perhaps their "ancestors" are more literal this time around, as actual ghosts on the battlefield? We've seen advanced civilizations weaponize the dead before, with the Eldars' infinity circuits.

Perhaps the "Extremely heretical technology" mentioned is to do with this; creating AI facsimiles of their ancestors in machine recreations of a typical squat body.

There is a rumour engine picture of a fully mechanical leg that's different from the mechanical foot we've seen so far:

I guess this is the new exo armour.

I’m starting to be afraid the metal hobbit feet are going to be a thing.

I don't think this is the case as we can see from this image that I have illuminated more he has normal feet, maybe they are just prostheses or there is another reason,maybe a lot of their units have AIs integrated into them or their weapons so would the greater stability / accuracy of their weapons also make sense

I don't think this is the case as we can see from this image that I have illuminated more he has normal feet, maybe they are just prostheses or there is another reason,maybe a lot of their units have AIs integrated into them or their weapons so would the greater stability / accuracy of their weapons also make sense

Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

What if squats can be allies to both imperium and tau? GW would love to have an army that encourages you to include units from another faction, but unless you’re in the same race, 40k factions typically hate everyone else

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

Well, they did lose their worlds to the Tyranids, so it would make sense that they are space nomads now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

Well, they did lose their worlds to the Tyranids, so it would make sense that they are space nomads now.

Counter point.

No 40K army isn’t spacefaring,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

Well, they did lose their worlds to the Tyranids, so it would make sense that they are space nomads now.

Counter point.

No 40K army isn’t spacefaring,

True, but I mean like they have no planet to call home, they just hang out in their ships and go around trading and mining asteroids.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

Well, they did lose their worlds to the Tyranids, so it would make sense that they are space nomads now.

Counter point.

No 40K army isn’t spacefaring,

True, but I mean like they have no planet to call home, they just hang out in their ships and go around trading and mining asteroids.

So, Craftworlds 2.0?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Something I've not seen anyone mention - the start of the new article refers to them as "bearded starfarers", doesn't that sort of imply they're going to be ship-based? It could just be because of the video having them on ships I suppose.

Well, they did lose their worlds to the Tyranids, so it would make sense that they are space nomads now.

Counter point.

No 40K army isn’t spacefaring,

Daemons aren't spacefaring, they are warpfaring and teleport directly onto the worlds they invade.