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I hope it won't follow the way Sisters were released
they already had a hard time by missing essential models for a year which could be compensated by using the old ones

yet LoV does not have old ones to buy, and if GW releases a limited box and only those getting one can legally build an army while everyone else has to wait won't to them any good

I really feel the scaling is the biggest question here. Perhaps some people really want giant space dwarves, but I feel the 28.5mm scaling looks super goofy. Yet, the base proportions and size of some of the details imply that this might indeed be the correct size.

 kodos wrote:
I hope it won't follow the way Sisters were released
they already had a hard time by missing essential models for a year which could be compensated by using the old ones

yet LoV does not have old ones to buy, and if GW releases a limited box and only those getting one can legally build an army while everyone else has to wait won't to them any good

Exactly my thoughts.
This is quite an uncommon ground since there are no previous models you can use to fill the gaps and also a playable 40k Army needs several units to be functional.
To me the Kin need to hit the ground running from day one if they want gamers to pick them up.
This will need a couple troops (dual kit) a Heavy, fast, HQ and so on.

Unless they do a Killteam and just move along which would be a really bad move to kickstart a full "new" 40k faction.


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 Crimson wrote:
I really feel the scaling is the biggest question here. Perhaps some people really want giant space dwarves, but I feel the 28.5mm scaling looks super goofy. Yet, the base proportions and size of some of the details imply that this might indeed be the correct size.

25mm base would be the ideal but if they make them giant sized dwarfs then I dont think its hard to take a few mm off the legs... Not joking about chopping off the thin ankles or even replace feet. Its a really simple conversion.

I feel this'll be like the Lumineth release. We'll get a half-army first, and then 12-18 months later a whole new book that has the rest of their units.

I have the feeling this is going to be an extremelly expensive army too since all will be under the new GW price tags, theres no old and less expensive models to pick from.

The comparison shots suggest that the model's shins are longer than the other dwarves/squats. On this model, it looks like it would be possible to cut out the ankles and reposition on the feet to restore the proportions easily enough.

Might be a pain to do that on a whole army, and we haven't seen if that is feasible on the other LoV models yet.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 kodos wrote:
I hope it won't follow the way Sisters were released
they already had a hard time by missing essential models for a year which could be compensated by using the old ones

yet LoV does not have old ones to buy, and if GW releases a limited box and only those getting one can legally build an army while everyone else has to wait won't to them any good

Exactly my thoughts.
This is quite an uncommon ground since there are no previous models you can use to fill the gaps and also a playable 40k Army needs several units to be functional.
To me the Kin need to hit the ground running from day one if they want gamers to pick them up.
This will need a couple troops (dual kit) a Heavy, fast, HQ and so on.

Unless they do a Killteam and just move along which would be a really bad move to kickstart a full "new" 40k faction.


.

I can't remember how sisters where released- I thought they got lots of kits after the army box? Was it not 8 boxes and 4 character kits?
An AoS style release tends to be 6 boxes and 4 characters which gives a solid base to the faction, but longer term is slightly limiting.
Was thinking of a specific army set like the sisters got as it gave a real flavour of the whole army and added a bunch of unique sculpts to the range when the rest of the kits arrived. As they are a new faction I think they might want to give people a feeler the whole army straight away, the standard army box with a couple of boxes and a pair of characters mightn't achieve that.

A killteam set- I really love the look of the killteams that have been released- they look great and have all the extra options that you can use to customise your collection. So that would help add variety as well but it would be a bit frustrating if ally could get initially was one set locked in a boxed set.

I also wonder if the Kin warlord/character will get options like the Eldar autarch and the sisters Canoness. With no previous range to draw from I really hope whatever they do they give us lots of options/depth across the range otherwise the scope for collecting can be quite limiting.

Don't forget Sisters were a bit of an exception because they weren't a new army release, but a massive linewide upgrade and expansion. GW was fairly confident with it because they had lots of sales and interest metrics before.

Squats likely do not have that at all beyond a few necromunda models. So whilst there IS interest and marketing behind them, it isn't anything like what was behind Sisters of Battle.

 silverstu wrote:

I can't remember how sisters where released- I thought they got lots of kits after the army box? Was it not 8 boxes and 4 character kits?

but that it took year until the last one was out

GSC had a pretty small range at launch even with the compatible Guard kits shoring them up. They didn't get their second wave for another two and a half years, which is pretty short in the grand scheme of other armies but a pretty lengthy amount of time for such a limited range, particularly when it was an infantry horde.

 Overread wrote:
Don't forget Sisters were a bit of an exception because they weren't a new army release, but a massive linewide upgrade and expansion. GW was fairly confident with it because they had lots of sales and interest metrics before.

Squats likely do not have that at all beyond a few necromunda models. So whilst there IS interest and marketing behind them, it isn't anything like what was behind Sisters of Battle.

This is true, I wouldn't expect a massive range straight away like sisters but I don't think they can be too conservative with the first release- there has to be enough to feel like an army so probably the AoS model for a new faction release with 6 sets and 4 characters to start of with and maybe a follow up wave a year later. [which I think my wallet will appreciate].
I'm thinking Hearthguard will still be a thing, some sort of exo suits and probably AI/robots maybe as Ancestors [Valraks source mentioned Men of Iron along with squats, could be they use AI tech making their Ancestors immortal]. Valrak also said he heard that it was big release [but I think that just means a full faction rather than just Killteam which is obvious now] and a big vehicle was mentioned.
Other than that I haven't read anything much rumour wise for them other than a Killteam for them is coming but far off [eldar Christmas rumours] and Thudd Gun [artillery ] is coming via Bob from War of Sigmar.


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 kodos wrote:

 silverstu wrote:

I can't remember how sisters where released- I thought they got lots of kits after the army box? Was it not 8 boxes and 4 character kits?

but that it took year until the last one was out

Ah yes I forgot it took ages.


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 Arbitrator wrote:
GSC had a pretty small range at launch even with the compatible Guard kits shoring them up. They didn't get their second wave for another two and a half years, which is pretty short in the grand scheme of other armies but a pretty lengthy amount of time for such a limited range, particularly when it was an infantry horde.

Yeah and they had Stealers already available so it wasn't that big release. The faction looks pretty good now though model wise. Mechanicus was a smallish release at the start ?

 Arbitrator wrote:
GSC had a pretty small range at launch even with the compatible Guard kits shoring them up. They didn't get their second wave for another two and a half years, which is pretty short in the grand scheme of other armies but a pretty lengthy amount of time for such a limited range, particularly when it was an infantry horde.

Yeah and personally I feel that GSC became more of an army after the second wave. Before that they were mostly an Imperial Guard army with a few mutated units and a few guard models with cult symbols stuck on them. The second wave made the army work because now you had lots of repurposed vehicles and mutated models all together; rather than a single repurposed vehicle along with a regular military armed force

 silverstu wrote:
I can't remember how sisters where released- I thought they got lots of kits after the army box? Was it not 8 boxes and 4 character kits?

Before the actual army redo Sisters got Celestine and the twins for the first book of Gathering Storm leading up to 8th ed, and a lone Sister as a preview for the updated range around July '19.

Sisters then got their army box in November '19 and the full redo of the existing units in January and March '20, with the exception of Missionaries, Preachers, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders that are to this day using old models, with the priest from Blackstone Fortress being the only one of those with contemporary design even if he's not available separately.

Sisters got a second wave of entirely new units with their 9th ed codex in June '21.

I tend to agree that we should probably not expect Squats to be based on the Sisters release, not the least because there was a previously unthinkable (for GW) marketing campaign attached to it. It also seems that GW of today is reluctant to make both a monopose and multi-part version of the same unit, unlike at the start of 8th ed. They seem to have abandoned the easy build models from that time in favor of just selling monopose units as the real thing for full price these days. I don't think we'll see such models for Squats even though, as I said, that would be the only way for me to believe a Squat launch box would look anything like an army with a fair number of units and visual variety. I think a paltry amount of models from the full multi-part kits in an overpriced box is the more likely way they'll be released.

 NAVARRO wrote:
To me the Kin need to hit the ground running from day one if they want gamers to pick them up.

I have a feeling that GW disagrees with you and thinks that what Squats need is a launch box in advance in limited quantities for people to fight over, with a pre-order promise so that everyone who doesn't get one still commits to buying one, followed by a short gap so interested customers' wallets can recover and buy into the full release after that.

Kind of like they've been doing for years. Squats are good for an April Fools announcement, but aside from that to GW they are not likely to be any different than any other army.

On the point of monobuild vs. full kits, they were doing that in 9th, but not consistently. Assault intercessors, bladeguard vets, and eradicators had simple kits in the starter, but full kits with more options when released on their own. On the other hand, the outrider bikes just got put in their own box and resold as-is.

I don’t think we can say GW is leaning one way or another on this. I think limited starter, full kit with more options is a real possibly. But that’s just me guessing.

 Geifer wrote:

 silverstu wrote:
I can't remember how sisters where released- I thought they got lots of kits after the army box? Was it not 8 boxes and 4 character kits?

Before the actual army redo Sisters got Celestine and the twins for the first book of Gathering Storm leading up to 8th ed, and a lone Sister as a preview for the updated range around July '19.

Sisters then got their army box in November '19 and the full redo of the existing units in January and March '20, with the exception of Missionaries, Preachers, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders that are to this day using old models, with the priest from Blackstone Fortress being the only one of those with contemporary design even if he's not available separately.

Sisters got a second wave of entirely new units with their 9th ed codex in June '21.

I tend to agree that we should probably not expect Squats to be based on the Sisters release, not the least because there was a previously unthinkable (for GW) marketing campaign attached to it. It also seems that GW of today is reluctant to make both a monopose and multi-part version of the same unit, unlike at the start of 8th ed. They seem to have abandoned the easy build models from that time in favor of just selling monopose units as the real thing for full price these days. I don't think we'll see such models for Squats even though, as I said, that would be the only way for me to believe a Squat launch box would look anything like an army with a fair number of units and visual variety. I think a paltry amount of models from the full multi-part kits in an overpriced box is the more likely way they'll be released.

 NAVARRO wrote:
To me the Kin need to hit the ground running from day one if they want gamers to pick them up.

I have a feeling that GW disagrees with you and thinks that what Squats need is a launch box in advance in limited quantities for people to fight over, with a pre-order promise so that everyone who doesn't get one still commits to buying one, followed by a short gap so interested customers' wallets can recover and buy into the full release after that.

Kind of like they've been doing for years. Squats are good for an April Fools announcement, but aside from that to GW they are not likely to be any different than any other army.

A key thing to point out is that the army boxes are no longer limited so there is no fighting over them, time limited perhaps but not numbers limited.
I also think you've missed that GW are building uptown the release with months of articles which is different to the average release approach .
I agree with @NAVARRO that they will want to hit the ground running for folks to buy into them quickly. I don't think this is anything like a usual release for GW at all.
But we shall see over the coming weeks, still early doors to see where they are going with this .

We saw several new factions released during the last years, Squats will be comparable to Mechanicus with a large wave at first and some followup later. GW's starter waves tend to be quite different in scale, I think the DG release was one of the largest despite the fact that they could have relied on many CSM kits.

Death Guard were also headlining a new edition and most of their armour were existing CSM kits.

I think they'll get a couple more things than GSC, but I doubt it will be a huge initial launch.

 Nevelon wrote:
On the point of monobuild vs. full kits, they were doing that in 9th, but not consistently. Assault intercessors, bladeguard vets, and eradicators had simple kits in the starter, but full kits with more options when released on their own. On the other hand, the outrider bikes just got put in their own box and resold as-is.

I don’t think we can say GW is leaning one way or another on this. I think limited starter, full kit with more options is a real possibly. But that’s just me guessing.

I'd have a much better feeling about that if Squats were part of a new edition. Edition starter sets are the place where you can still reliably expect easy build kind of models. Outside of that it rarely happens. As you say, it's not like GW is fully consistent here, so I can't rule it out for Squats. I just don't think it's likely. But yeah, all guesswork at this time.

 silverstu wrote:
A key thing to point out is that the army boxes are no longer limited so there is no fighting over them, time limited perhaps but not numbers limited.
I also think you've missed that GW are building uptown the release with months of articles which is different to the average release approach .

On the first point, it depends on how you look at it. If the army is popular, there's a chance that GW did not make enough for everyone to get a set on release. The pre-order promise is a solid anti-scalper measure, but it still means that if you have to rely on it, you're not necessarily going to have the army set in hands before the main release, depending on how long it takes GW to make more and where in the queue you are. There's still an element of FOMO there because of that, which I'm sure GW wants to leverage.

On the second point, GW pretty reliably remains in their three month announcement window and previews still tend to happen close to the pre-order date. The shipping delays of late have screwed with this occasionally and some previews happened significantly earlier than that, but not because GW willingly stepped outside the announcement window. Sisters were announced a year and a half before the launch box was released and had preview articles starting immediately with the announcement. It's an entirely different situation.

I'm willing to give Squats a spot outside that three month window because of the practicalities of releasing a full 40k army with the next few months pretty much clogged by Chaos and Horus Heresy while still meeting the April 1 date for the announcement, but I suspect it won't be that far outside. I reckon we'll be able to buy Squats by August or September, even if it's just an advance release.

 Geifer wrote:

 silverstu wrote:
A key thing to point out is that the army boxes are no longer limited so there is no fighting over them, time limited perhaps but not numbers limited.
I also think you've missed that GW are building uptown the release with months of articles which is different to the average release approach .

On the first point, it depends on how you look at it. If the army is popular, there's a chance that GW did not make enough for everyone to get a set on release. The pre-order promise is a solid anti-scalper measure, but it still means that if you have to rely on it, you're not necessarily going to have the army set in hands before the main release, depending on how long it takes GW to make more and where in the queue you are. There's still an element of FOMO there because of that, which I'm sure GW wants to leverage.

On the second point, GW pretty reliably remains in their three month announcement window and previews still tend to happen close to the pre-order date. The shipping delays of late have screwed with this occasionally and some previews happened significantly earlier than that, but not because GW willingly stepped outside the announcement window. Sisters were announced a year and a half before the launch box was released and had preview articles starting immediately with the announcement. It's an entirely different situation.

I'm willing to give Squats a spot outside that three month window because of the practicalities of releasing a full 40k army with the next few months pretty much clogged by Chaos and Horus Heresy while still meeting the April 1 date for the announcement, but I suspect it won't be that far outside. I reckon we'll be able to buy Squats by August or September, even if it's just an advance release.

Yeah fair enough, I had a feeling after the announcement that we would see the first Squats around end of June/July, maybe the Army Box then and then the codex and sets release around September .

I have had a thought that they may use a Killteam release first as there seems to be a lot due for release with the Heresy, lots of Chaos and Guard rules rumours. It would be a very narrative way to release them as the first elements that other factions encounter would be kill teams/scouts/explorers before larger forces head out into non LoV space [thats assuming the LoV have been in hiding and are once agin going out into the galaxy]. They could release the army set [if its coming] in September and then go for a full release October/November.

 Crimson wrote:
25mm scaling looks way more sensible.

You think the 40k dwarves are going to be smaller than the fantasy dwarves? 28mm makes a lot more sense based on the size of kharadron and fireslayers.

Toofast wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
25mm scaling looks way more sensible.

You think the 40k dwarves are going to be smaller than the fantasy dwarves? 28mm makes a lot more sense based on the size of kharadron and fireslayers.

I think he was referring to the bases.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
We saw several new factions released during the last years, Squats will be comparable to Mechanicus with a large wave at first and some followup later. GW's starter waves tend to be quite different in scale, I think the DG release was one of the largest despite the fact that they could have relied on many CSM kits.

Mechanicus started out as 2 separate books, with skitarii coming out with 2 infantry boxes and 2 vehicles, and cult mechanicus coming out with 2 infantry boxes, kastellans, and the techpriest dominus. And the updated knight codex where the warden sprue was added came in between.

I'm hoping for a release like orks got- they had an army box with a couple squads of troops, a character, and a large model unit, then got a start collecting with a new character, infantry squad and unit plus an old vehicle, alongside a handful of new characters, a large model, and a massive tank.

My memory’s going, but the Kharadrons were two-consecutive weeks, IIRC. Goodwin Dark Eldar were also two weeks of big releases, followed by a new unit drip for a few months or something for the ”initial wave”. Of course, they had stats for a bunch of minis that they never released, so that might have been a different company for all that matters.

I think I have the wds for both releases, should probably dig them out instead of trying to remember things…

I don't think anything has come close to the quality of that Goodwin (and the other sculptors involved) Dark Eldar release, either before or since. That would certainly be good if it comes even close to that!

Also back then releases were monthly, not weekly

 kodos wrote:
I hope it won't follow the way Sisters were released
they already had a hard time by missing essential models for a year which could be compensated by using the old ones

This is more or less exactly whats going to happen. There are logistical and manufacturing bottlenecks that set the limit on what a product release can/will look like - as gamers we may have an idea of what a new faction launch should look like in order to produce a well balanced army on the table, but thats all meaningless in the face of the constraints that exist in terms of developing, producing, and delivering those products to market. We have a pretty good indication of what the upper limit for number of new kits released in one block looks like - Sisters, Beastsnaggas, the new Eldar release, etc. as well as Age of Sigmar new faction launches (Lumineth being the most recent I can think of). The only way we get a larger product dump is if its part of a new edition launch set. We can expect, realistically, about 10-12 new kits of varying sizes and types maximum, assuming Leagues of Votann don't end up a limited faction with 8 units total like Harlequins. We are unlikely to get a day 1 drop of 20+ new units needed to make a fully fleshed out roster.

of course we won't see 10+ units in the first wave

the important part for games is to get the essential units outside the Limited Edition boxes in wave 1
if we see 20 single boxes by release but the 1 model that is needed or the Codex is not among them because it is a big box exclusive this is a problem

On the potential release schedule.

I have a theory, and only a theory that when it’s a big release like this, it’s staggered so “one of everything” equates to what GW have found to be the Average Spend on Big Release Weekends.

I dare say more meat can be put on these bones if anyone cares to look back at such releases and do some basic adding up.

I recon T4 1W stat line because that's pretty much been vacated by the marines.
Anyone claiming thats not good enough forgets that vast portions of factions run 1w t3 infantry as basic troops...

So it will then come down to pts and guns

I mean can no one else see another Logan Grimnar santa sled coming ?

Watch them do it.. it will be hilarious.

I'm thinking that they'll make them like dwarfs.
T4 and W1 which may not seem much, but they might have really good armour to make up for it and most of their strength would come from firepower and being stubborn gits.

So basically tough and slow Tau.

What were squats like before? Perhaps we should look at them for an inkling of what GW is going to do?


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 Argive wrote:
I recon T4 1W stat line because that's pretty much been vacated by the marines.
Anyone claiming thats not good enough forgets that vast portions of factions run 1w t3 infantry as basic troops...

So it will then come down to pts and guns

I mean can no one else see another Logan Grimnar santa sled coming ?

Watch them do it.. it will be hilarious.

Nah, its going to Fantasy Thorgrim. Just a Squat sitting on a big chair being carried by other squats. Except with power armour and sci-fi doodads.