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We're explicitly told they're improving and not in technological stasis. I don't know what more you need.

They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

Voss wrote:
We're explicitly told they're improving and not in technological stasis. I don't know what more you need.

They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

They can only reach things on the bottom storage shelves of their ships. Everything up higher is effectively lost technology.

Fascinating little article, if nothing else I just enjoy this adding of new lore. I really like this idea of divergent evolution between the Imperium and the Votanni.

I'm assuming they will play very similar to fantasy Dwarves, tough and hard hitting with a powerful gunline but not very mobile, apart from a few key units like the copters.

Voss wrote:
We're explicitly told they're improving and not in technological stasis. I don't know what more you need.

They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

They're improving but it states they move slowly, so something is throttling their progress. It may be a combination of conservatism, and maybe their ancestor cores. We've been told some have slowed down to the point of taking centuries to answer a question. If research and retooling somehow has to go through them, then that slowdown could explain why they are still at STC tech even after thousands of years.

 warboss wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I read them as Brokers myself.

Same. And it mentioned their "A.N-vyl terminals" (yeah anvil, so obvious), and how they are used to command the auto-foundries of each Kin hold. Sounds like a bunch of 3D printers/nano-fabricators to me.

I'm wondering whether their Votann cores will be the weakness that prevents the Kin from becoming total high tech gods and getting to Clarketech like the Necrons. Maybe the slowdown of the cores means production and/or research/download of new tech is throttled.

I think the answer to that lies in the first bit of fluff they put out that the cores are malfunctioning after tens of thousands of years taking decades or more to previously give answers for calculations that would have been spit out in minutes. Basically advanced computers with eons of bloatware and updates that have never been rebooted. That's likely preventing them from significantly advancing.

I wonder if they have the Excel version with the flight simulator included

GW: "The Ancestor Cores that are the literal technological, cultural and spiritual core of the Leagues are malfunctioning after millennia of continuous operation."

People on the internet: "Sheesh I hope they have some weakness."

Mantic's space dorfs have Brokkrs, so clearly this is based on some ancient celtic gibberish or something.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Mantic's space dorfs have Brokkrs, so clearly this is based on some ancient celtic gibberish or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokkr

This one, probably.

Good find!

I alos rather like some of the historic uses of "Broker"

broker (n.)
mid-14c. (mid-13c. in surnames), "commercial agent, factor," also "an agent in sordid business," from Anglo-French brocour "small trader," from abrokur "retailer of wine, tapster;" perhaps from Portuguese alborcar "barter," but more likely from Old French brocheor, from brochier "to broach, tap, pierce (a keg)," from broche (Old North French broke, broque) "pointed tool" (see broach (n.)), with an original sense of "wine dealer," hence "retailer, middleman, agent." In Middle English, used contemptuously of peddlers and pimps, "one who buys and sells public office" (late 14c. in Anglo-French), "intermediary in love or marriage" (late 14c.).

Voss wrote:
They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

Their unshakable belief that revolvers are superior to automatic weapons may pass as one hell of a weakness. At least after the first six shots.

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

 Geifer wrote:

Voss wrote:
They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

Their unshakable belief that revolvers are superior to automatic weapons may pass as one hell of a weakness. At least after the first six shots.

BuT ReVoLvErS NeVeR JaM huuurrrr </fudd>





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

You mean the thing called a HyLAS Auto Rifle? Pretty sure that's not a mislabelling.

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

KillerAngel wrote:
HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

Ah, yeah. For some reason I read Hylas as "high-luss" instead of "high-laze" and just assumed it was a name or place.

KillerAngel wrote:

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.

Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.
Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

GW lore being what it is, I'm still half-expecting a WarCom article explaining how the name "Hylas Auto Rifle" doesn't actually come from "high-capacity automatic laser rifle" but instead is named after its inventor Johnny Hylas.

So if there's the A.N.VIL terminals that control auto-foundry's and the Votann are their gunsmiths, their Engineers aren't actually forging the equipment? Hand-forging every weapon would obviously be a bit much but I enjoy the master craftsmen and innovation side of the Dwarf Archetype so I hope there's more to it than just a factory that automatically does it to a high standard for them.

 Geifer wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.

Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

All Kool kyds do it!!

 NephMakes wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.
Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

GW lore being what it is, I'm still half-expecting a WarCom article explaining how the name "Hylas Auto Rifle" doesn't actually come from "high-capacity automatic laser rifle" but instead is named after its inventor Johnny Hylas.

Just watch out for Nymphs

(warning for classical art nudity)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymph#/media/File:Waterhouse_Hylas_and_the_Nymphs_Manchester_Art_Gallery_1896.15.jpg

 Geifer wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.

Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

I dislike it as well, because it's the same thing those companies that make weird milk alternatives do.

However! The sentence you wrote is correct from a middle english perspective so.. it works both ways.

I'm trying to work out why one would ever make - outside of aesthetics or simple desire - a bolt revolver, or what advantages a bolt shotgun would ever have when you consider that bolt rounds are self-propelled and the true versatility of shotguns (via ammunition types) is something boltguns have inherently.

Arguably their simpler mechanisms make them less maintenance intensive for prospecting etc?

I know bugger all about guns, hence the question mark.

 Olthannon wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.
Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

I dislike it as well, because it's the same thing those companies that make weird milk alternatives do.
However! The sentence you wrote is correct from a middle english perspective so.. it works both ways.

It'd actually be pretty cool if they did the creative spellings more consistently, and for many more in-universe words, to show how language has changed over the millenia. Like Ye Olde Tyme Scrypt in space.

 Olthannon wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 NephMakes wrote:

Spoiler:

The squat lasgun is mislabelled as an autogun. It's got a standard lasgun muzzle with slanted cowl and power pack with diagonal indented stripe. The design intent is pretty clear. Wierd error to make. For reference: Lexicanum Lasgun and Autogun.

HyLAS Auto Rifle. Looks like a "squad automatic weapon" version of a lasgun to me.

Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.

Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

I dislike it as well, because it's the same thing those companies that make weird milk alternatives do.

However! The sentence you wrote is correct from a middle english perspective so.. it works both ways.

Specifically the Nordic language influence on Middle English. Which….entirely fits.

 NephMakes wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.
Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

GW lore being what it is, I'm still half-expecting a WarCom article explaining how the name "Hylas Auto Rifle" doesn't actually come from "high-capacity automatic laser rifle" but instead is named after its inventor Johnny Hylas.

I'm sure the bolt revolver was invented by John Mosys Brownying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Arguably their simpler mechanisms make them less maintenance intensive for prospecting etc?

I know bugger all about guns, hence the question mark.

A revolver would be easier to maintain than an automatic or semi automatic, yes.
It's just that the whole bolt system is already a little complex because of the rocket propelled round thing.
Giving an easy to maintain weapon ammunition that's complex seems counterintuitive to me. It would have made more sense if it just used high explosive rounds, Judge Dredd style.

I suppose making a bolt weapon would speed up the reload process as they are meant to be caseless, but the same effect could be achieved with speed loaders or caseless ammunition.
I dunno, giving them bolt weapons just feels like trying to make the Votann imperials +1 by giving them imperial weapons "but better" instead of giving them unique variations and evolutions of DAoT tech that matches their history and environment.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 NephMakes wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, it's an automatic las rifle. For extra fun they spelled hi(gh) with a y, just to throw you off.
Ynd bycause GW ys clinycally yncapable yf spellyng wyrds wythout randymly replacyng vowyls wyth y.

GW lore being what it is, I'm still half-expecting a WarCom article explaining how the name "Hylas Auto Rifle" doesn't actually come from "high-capacity automatic laser rifle" but instead is named after its inventor Johnny Hylas.

I'm sure the bolt revolver was invented by John Mosys Brownying.

That'd be pretty on-brand, if the Rogue Trader squats are any guide. He could be Blish Browning's cousin!

Voss wrote:
We're explicitly told they're improving and not in technological stasis. I don't know what more you need.

They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

Having a functioning STC allows for that. And still doesn’t mean they understand the science behind what’s being made.

Strip those STC’s away? And they’re, for a period at least, even more stuffed for tech than The Imperium. Because the ability to create and utilise advanced technology is not the same as understanding it.

I’m interested to know more about the Votann, as in terms of STC lore it’s suggested not all were equal.

Yes, each had the sum total of human knowledge within it when first made. But, they were not all made at the same time.

Some you described your problem and materials on hand, and it would give you a blueprint to fix the first using the second. Others would actively fabricate the goodies for you. Whether that was Star Trek style Replicator or a highly advanced and automated assembly line we don’t know. But it could well be both.

Generation upon generation depended upon STC’s for their tech and weapons etc. And that was fine until The Dark Age of Technology. When the STCs were lost (seemingly in the battle against The Men of Iron, but which side destroyed them and why is likely a complicated “well it was pretty much both for a variety of reasons” question. But the end result was when the dust settled, few worlds retained their STC`s beyond fragments, and even fewer had any understanding of the tools they were previously furnished with.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm trying to work out why one would ever make - outside of aesthetics or simple desire - a bolt revolver, or what advantages a bolt shotgun would ever have when you consider that bolt rounds are self-propelled and the true versatility of shotguns (via ammunition types) is something boltguns have inherently.

looking on the size of the rounds and the size of the magazins, a shotgun and revolver would have more ammo than those....

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

A revolver would be easier to maintain than an automatic or semi automatic, yes.
It's just that the whole bolt system is already a little complex because of the rocket propelled round thing.
Giving an easy to maintain weapon ammunition that's complex seems counterintuitive to me. It would have made more sense if it just used high explosive rounds, Judge Dredd style.

a Revolver is not necessarily easier than an automatic, the mechanics are more delicate
the main point for the revolver is that it is, it can be smaller (better concealed) suffer less from shooter failures, have less problem with ammunition quality and you can use stronger ammunition
meaning it also works with bad ammo, which would be a problem for a semi-auto but as the force for the "reload" comes from the operator, a bad bullet won't stop your gun

they fail less, but if they fail it is not a quick fix but you need to take them apart to clear it which you need a gunsmith (and secure workplace)

so talking about a revolver fire bolter round, stronger ammo is not a point (rocket propelled round), neither is concealment, so it would come down to LoV have problems with ammunition quality and are bad at shooting
not sure if this is the indented picture we should get

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Voss wrote:
We're explicitly told they're improving and not in technological stasis. I don't know what more you need.

They better have a hell of dark side or weakness, because between this article and the last one, the Leagues are coming off as basically perfect.

Having a functioning STC allows for that. And still doesn’t mean they understand the science behind what’s being made.
.

That was a lot of yadda yadda. Now, point in the article where it says or even implies that they don't understand, and reread the sentence where it explicitly says that they're improving tech and not in technological stasis.
Also go back to the article about cloning, and how they've avoided the usual pit-traps there (no diversity, limited gene pool), can add or subtract psychic ability, and come up with new genetic improvements.

I guess they could be technologically backwards like the Imperium, but everything GW has written on them so far (other than 'their AI cores are running on DOS') says the opposite. You're running based on something you've made up.

You’re assuming it’s the Squats, not the STC making the improvements. That is my point, and not in fact “a whole lot of yadda” as you so dismissively put it.

If you have a still functioning and complete STC system, depending on its hypothetical generation, then as you discover new minerals etc, and feed their properties in, it can devise ways to put them to use.

Let’s call one Sparklonium. You feed that into the STC, and it discovers (not you discover) that it allows for the creation of a heat resistant alloy, which in turn can be made to fabricate Lasweapons of a higher yield, or Bolt Weapons with a higher rate of fire.

That is an innovation. But at no point is it your innovation. It’s still the STC doing all the clevers.

Now from what little we known so far about the Votann specifically? They can still accept new data, and it’s implied it’s even capable of storing personalities of the deceased (I might be reading too much into it though). That to me suggest these are higher end, more advanced STCs.

If the Leagues truly understood their Votann, would we not reasonably expect them to be au fait with maintenance, or providing more RAM or disk space to stop them slowing down? Or even just be sensible and ask the Votann to create a new Votann, and split the files between them. One can be the Domestic/Industrial Votann, the other the Tactical/War Materiel Votann - networked together just in case with the capacity to access each other’s databanks.

That such a seemingly simple fix clearly hasn’t been implemented speaks rather strongly of just how little the Leagues actually understand their tech basis, no?