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 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.

\


Oh yeah totally.

Except that bit where they point in actual words that in a very modern book Squats are known to trade with the Demiurge for mining lasers.

L.

O.

L.

If you’re gonna whine, at least make your whining factual?

WarCom wrote:****The Book of Judgement confirmed that Squat prospectors are still around, and buying energy drills from Demiurg.

Seriously. GW are far from perfect, but I really, really, really loathe whines which have no basis in fact.

L.

O.

L.

mrFickle wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.

Maybe the way to think about it is we aren’t getting squats we’re getting the leagues of votann. The demiurg and the leagues of votann might both be squats but that is just a human slang word for the particular a human type. I’d think of them like craft worlds and harlequins.

That’s my guess based on what I read

That might well be it tbh - would give an explanation for why people are unsure if they’re different or not while still having as a defined thing trade between Imperial Squats and the Demiurge.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Spoiler:

Tomorrow night I’ll dig out the Ork & Squat Warlords book, which is, to the best of my knowledge, the last published source of Squat background.

Being 2nd Ed Epic, it straddles that odd period between “wheeeeeeee we’ve no idea what we’re doing!” Rogue Trader background and the “quick, everyone to the rational pumps” 2nd Edition 40K.

You've said some funny gak before, but that's a new topper!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.

\


Oh yeah totally.

Except that bit where they point in actual words that in a very modern book Squats are known to trade with the Demiurge for mining lasers.

If you’re gonna whine, at least make your whining factual?

I think you may have misunderstood my comment.
I was talking specifically and only about that article. In that article they state;

Were these the Leagues sneaking back into the setting, or a new alien species filling a similar role? We’re still not sure

They're setting up mystery and intrigue around maybe they're the Demiurg.

Then they contradict their own "we're not sure" later in that very same article.
The fact that we are sure and they're not the same per other lore is just a further mail for WarCom

Uncertainty is not contradiction.

Are the demiurg squats that sought refuge with the Tau? That other squats still trade with? We don't know, but its quite possible.

They aren't undermining themselves though. The point of that article was talking about the history of Squats in 40k. They talk about the Demiurg as they were sort of a nod to possibly being Squats who knows. In the article they keep to that premise. It's a bit of a mystery presumably until the codex tells us what is real.

mrFickle wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.

Maybe the way to think about it is we aren’t getting squats we’re getting the leagues of votann. The demiurg and the leagues of votann might both be squats but that is just a human slang word for the particular a human type. I’d think of them like craft worlds and harlequins.

That’s my guess based on what I read

I really hope that's the route they go, so many people have been itching for more Tau Auxilliaries and it would be great to have one faction of Squats that are more Imperium leaning, one other for Tau, and maybe even another for Chaos.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Tomorrow night I’ll dig out the Ork & Squat Warlords book, which is, to the best of my knowledge, the last published source of Squat background. Being 2nd Ed Epic, it straddles that odd period between “wheeeeeeee we’ve no idea what we’re doing!” Rogue Trader background and the “quick, everyone to the rational pumps” 2nd Edition 40K.

Expect a bunch of verbatim blurbs about the unit types, and probably a potted version of their wider background because I can’t be arsed to type it all out.

Look forward to it mate- never got that book as I was in my eldar phase then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Olthannon wrote:
They aren't undermining themselves though. The point of that article was talking about the history of Squats in 40k. They talk about the Demiurg as they were sort of a nod to possibly being Squats who knows. In the article they keep to that premise. It's a bit of a mystery presumably until the codex tells us what is real.

I think they might want to keep it a bit vaguest they have options to do something different with Demiurg later, but as others have said they might be a different branch of squats, separate from the leagues.

I found the White Dwarf that mentions “Homeworld Golgotha”. Page 38 of White Dwarf issue 452. This was released in march 2020.

The former Squat home world of Golgotha is dominated by airfields and workshops that produce squadrons of Ork aircraft.

It is not much, but it kind of re-canonizes that bit of lore from earlier editions.

I miss that kind of canonization of battle reports, even though that particular Orks vs. Squats/Imperial was a horrible one sided slaughter of the Squats driven namely by Jervis taking a useless mix of one of each Squat vehicle to try and showcase them. Maybe it was his choice or Studio policy but either way it made for an ineffective Squat army.

 Tawnis wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.

Maybe the way to think about it is we aren’t getting squats we’re getting the leagues of votann. The demiurg and the leagues of votann might both be squats but that is just a human slang word for the particular a human type. I’d think of them like craft worlds and harlequins.

That’s my guess based on what I read

I really hope that's the route they go, so many people have been itching for more Tau Auxilliaries and it would be great to have one faction of Squats that are more Imperium leaning, one other for Tau, and maybe even another for Chaos.

That would be cool. Never knew I needed Nurgle Chaos Dwarfs with giant hats in Space... But I do.

Sorry I’ve not got round to posting the info from Ork & Squat Warlords.

Not only am I really fairly lazy, but I’m also in the early stages of Marie Kondo’ing all my stuff, so have been well distracted.

Will dig the book out tonight and get going.

OK doke. The Cupboard of Crap has been tamed, ready for the House Move. Which means I’ve been able to spelunk my way to my copy of Ork & Squat Warlords.

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I’ll begin. Prepare for the most up to date Squat lore, even though it’s *checks date* 30 years old. Lawks!

Squats

When humans first began to explore the galaxy some of the earliest colonies were settled on the worlds toward the galactic core. At that time the mineral resources of the galactic centre were a rich prize, and thousands of specially adapted mining spacecraft set off to harvest the vast wealth of these inner planets.

The galactic core is characterised by extremely ancient suns which are dim in comparison with the stars of the spiral arms. Around these ancient stars orbit huge, rocky world, rich in minerals but in all other respects barren and lifeless. With very low levels of daylight, and extremely high gravity, these worlds are grey and cheerless, and inhospitable to life.

The original settlers were miners, and they dug homes for themselves in the rocky landscape, creating self contained communities out of exhausted mines. To feed themselves the miners constructed hydroponic tanks to grow nutritious algae which could then be eaten or processed, and the communities quickly became self-supporting.

The high gravity and extremely harsh environment gradually changed the humans that lived there. They grew tougher, more resilient and they also became shorter and squatter. This process took several thousand years and during that time the new race began to develop its own cultural identity. When the galactic core was cut off from the rest of human society by Warp Storms, the inhabitants banded together into an independent confederacy which they call the Homeworlds.

It was about this time that the short, stocky race became generally known as Squats, although they are also called Dwarfs and many of them prefer this term. During this period of isolation the Homeworlds withstood all kinds of trials, from Ork invasions to the rampages of Chaos, environmental disaster and even internal wars between the Squats themselves. The early settlements were enlarged and fortified to turn them into impregnable strongholds.

With Earth and other sources of technology denied to them, the Squats has to develop their own alternative technologies using local materials and sources of energy. As they invented and re-invented machines to keep them alive, the Squats acquired considerable expertise. This gathering of knowledge lead to the creation of the Engineers Guild - a body of individualistic warriors whose technical expertise would would provide future Squat armies with many of their most successful weapons of war.

The Squat Homeworlds have since remained independent ever since, and have fought their own wars against Orks and Chaos. On occasions Squats have fought the Imperium and Eldar, but by and large the Squats prefer to fight on the same side as humans and have no particular source of dispute with Eldar.

The Squats need to trade in order to acquire items not readily available on their own worlds and so they prefer to remain as neutral as possible. Sometimes Squat Strongholds fight each other over points of honour or valuable mining rights but such wars are usually short lived, being brought to a halt by the invocation of of ancient laws or the intercession of other Strongholds. The Homeworlds rely on the Imperium for most of their trade, but they also trade with the Eldar and have even traded with Orks in the far distant past.

The Squats hate Orks with a passion ever since the ravages of Ork Warlord Grunhag the Flayer, whose surprise invasion cost many Squat lives and wiped out several ancient Strongholds. Even today thousands of years after the invasion, the Squats send out expeditions to try and uncover lost remnants of Stringholds believed to have been destroyed by Grunhag’s horde. An epic ballad called The Fall of Imbach reminds younger generations of Squat warriors of the heroism of the Squats in those dark times and the foul treachery of the Ork Invaders.

Squats are hard-working and stubborn. They are an honourable people who take great pride in paying their debts and keeping their word. This means that they are reliable allies but very dangerous foes. If a Squat gives his word to do something he would die willingly in the attempt. Squats have two characteristics which some humans find difficult to understand.

Firstly they are very materialistic. Squats will work hard to acquire money and possessions, and the more important a Squat is the greater his treasure horde will be. When he dies his possessions are divided between his family and so passed on from generation to generation. A family’s treasure is held very dear - it is both a source of wealth and a tangible link to its honoured ancestors.

The second quality which many humans find hard to understand is the Squats’ over-riding obsession with vengeance and honour. Should a Squat be slain his family is honour bound to avenge his death, while any harm done to one family member by an unrelated Squat will bring the whole family together to exact vengeance. Squats stick together and never forget a slight no matter how trivial or unintentional. Their stories and legends abound with examples of lone warriors battling to the death against impossible odds for their family’s honour or of individuals seemingly returning from apparent death or dishonour to exact lasting and bloody revenge on their foes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Stronghold is the basis of Squat civilisation. A planet might have several Strongholds, but rarely more than half a dozen. The warriors from a Stronghold are its Brotherhoods - so called because of their close blood relationship and ties of vengeance rights. Strongholds sometimes band together into temporary alliances called Leagues.

The leader of a Stronghold is called it’s Lord. The leaders of a Stronghold’s Brotherhoods are called Warlords, and are usually close relatives of the Lord. In battle, each Warlord is accompanied by a Brotherhood, as well as his own personal bodyguard or Heartguard.

When several Strongholds from a League fight together a Grand Warlord is elected to lead the combined forces for the duration of the campaign. Election as a Grand Warlord is one of the ultimate accolades for a Squat warrior and is normally bestowed on the most honoured and revered Warlords. The Grand Warlord leads a disciplined and well armed force mostly made up of Brotherhood warriors, but which also includes fearsome weapons of war developed by the Engineers Guild.

The Engineers Guild is a powerful part of Squat society. It’s knowledge and experience is legendary and it’s leaders know many engineering secrets. Some of the human Technomagi of the Adeptus Mechanicus believe the Squatd have already learned the secrets of stable warp fission, by which the energy of warp space is flared off to produce limitless supplies of energy. If this is true then the Guidmasters guard their secret well, considering it too dangerous to use.

The Guild had already developed the most advanced form of propulsion for spacecraft; a Neoplasma reactor powered by a warp cord held in thrall by a containment field of zero energy. No other race has ever replicated this drive mechanism, the Adeptus Mechanicus giving up on their experiments with warp core technology ever since the infamous Contagion of Ganymede.

Of course, the Squats produce many more conventional machines too, including airships, gyrocopters and gigantic armoured crawlers. All of these machines reflect the landscape of the Squat Homeworlds, where isolated Strongholds are separated by many miles of hostile territory. Shale deserts and chromium drifts, soaring pinnacles and sheer glass-sided crevasses are typical topography on the Homeworlds. To cross this tortured landscape the Squats have huge Land Trains - multi-tracked monster vehicles towing powered track cars of ore, supplies or living quarters. These powerful vehicles have heavy tracks which can support these vast machines on the uncertain ground surface.

All of these Land Trains are armoured to survive meteor showers and violent electrical storms. Many carry weapons and are used by the Squats as armoured battle stations, mobile versions of their Strongholds, able to survive isolation in a hostile world. The largest of the vast machines built by the Squats is the Colossus, which is also made for the Imperium in a version called the Leviathan. These are really big machines, with exceptionally thick armour and crammed with powerful weapons.

Both Land Trains and Colussus are slow moving, and to scout the way ahead and check for enemy movement the Squats use Gyrocopters and airships. These flying machines are the eyes and ears of the sluggish convoys, providing the essential information about troops movements or possible ambushes for the Squat ground forces.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ll be back tomorrow with individual unit entries. Those I need some artistic license on, as there a mix of background snippets and in-game rules.

Very cool stuff. Lovely to see the whole thing quoted. I think autocorrect went a bit mental when you were getting the warp core stuff over. It mentions Nepal, but I think that might be a typo

Good spot! Corrected to neoplasma

I thought it was named for a region on old Terra???

I wonder if the neoplasma warp core technology is what is being referred to in WarCom's phrase "some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." When I first saw that phrase I immediately thought of the warp core tech and the contagion of Ganymede. That was AFAIK an attempt by the Adeptus Mechanicus that went catastrophically wrong, leading to the loss of Ganymede.

I wonder if the squat society will be closer to the emperors atheist vision for humanity.

Also as it been made clear they have retained STC’s, some which the imperium don’t have any more, will GW use the rhino as the basis for a LOV vehicle. I hope not

Cheers for that. Most that can be pretty much kept for LoV and fleshed out a good bit. I think they have so much to develop for squats in terms of lore and art. What do their space ships look like for example. Their independence from the imperium, high tech and social structure are probably solid points to keep. Biker gangs weren't mentioned and there's no sense of them being smaller imperial guard. The trade angle could be good too.

And now? Unit descriptions. As mentioned in my earlier post, what I’m quoting from is a mix of background and rules info. As some rules just aren’t going to be relevant, I’ll skip those parts. Others I’ll leave in if I feel they’re broadly relevant to how Squats fight.

Squat Infantry

Solid and stubborn in defence and relentless in attack, Squats make excellent infantry. Individual Squat infantry squads are highly disciplined and fiercely determined, their pride and sense of honour to both their revered Ancestors and fellow warriors make it impossible for them to be otherwise. Squats are particularly resolute in close combat, refusing to go down without putting up a good fight.

Squats are organised into different units to fulfil specific tactical roles according to their weaponry and status within the Stronghold. There are three types of Squat unit. Warriors, Berserkers and Thunderers

Warriors

Warrior units make up the bulk of Squat Brotherhoods, comprising the younger members of the Stronghold’s War-brethren. The are formed from standard combat squads armed with Lasguns and sidearms, with one Squat in every five man squad carrying a Heavy Weapon such as a missile launcher or heavy Bolter. A Warrior unit is usually normally lead by the Warlord of the Stronghold if the entire Stronghold is present, or a squad of select Hearthguard if the Warrior unit is fighting separately from the rest of the Brotherhood.

Berserkers

Berserkers are made up from attack squads of the most ferocious hand to hand fighters in the Stronghold. Attack squads are armed with bolt pistols, power axes or Chainswords and a variety of grenades. They are expert tunnel fighters and excel a clearing buildings and fortifications ahead of the Brotherhood’s advance. All Squats are doughty fighters in close combat but Squat Berserker units are renowned for their tenacity and courage against the most impossible odds, battling fearlessly against even the mightiest of opponents without thought for their own losses.

Thunderers

Thunderers are the most heavily armed units in a Squat Brotherhood, consisting of heavy squads of hardened veterans carrying heavy weapon. Squat heavy units are exceptional because every Squat in the unit carries a heavy weapon - either a heavy Bolter, a missile launcher or a las cannon. Thunderers provide withering support fire for the Brotherhood on the battlefield, devastating concentrations of enemy troops or tanks and forming strongpoints to hold the battle line.

Warlord and Hearthguard

To guard against dishonourable use of Brotherhood troops by unscrupulous or avaricious Stronghold Lords, a Brotherhood is always lead by a trustworthy relative of the Lord, known as the Warlord. A Warlord is trained from infancy to be a leader and act as a source of great inspiration to the Squat warriors he commands, constantly reminding them of their duty to their ancestors.

The Warlord is accompanied into battle by a bodyguard of close relatives from the warrior aristocracy of the Stronghold. These potent warriors are equipped with lavishly decorated exo-armour and powerful Combi-weapons decorated with traditional patterns in gold and precious stones. Often extra squads of elite warriors known as Hearthguard will take to the battlefield to lead units of Squats. These loyal retainers of the Warlord are magnificently equipped in carapace armour reminiscent of archaic styles and carry a selection of heavy weapons. Though Hearthguard do not operate as a command unit they are still mighty warriors and lead their units from the front, setting an example of courageous conduct to the other Squats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Living Ancestors

Squats typically live for about 300 years but a small percentage live longer. If a Squat survives to see his 400th year, his longevity is greatly increased and he can expect to sr]ur Ive to 800 or more. The tiny proportion of Squats to live to such a great age are treated with enormous respect and become known as Living Ancestors.

Right. I’ve twinged my wrist typing. More to come when that’s settled down.

mrFickle wrote:
I wonder if the squat society will be closer to the emperors atheist vision for humanity.

Also as it been made clear they have retained STC’s, some which the imperium don’t have any more, will GW use the rhino as the basis for a LOV vehicle. I hope not

On the one hand it would be an awesome link to old fluff if all their vehicles were based on the rhino, but given that of all the imperial factions, only the marines and sisters use them any more it seems unlikely. On the other hand, if they still have functioning STCs then they wouldn’t need the rhino, as the systems will be spitting out more specific and optimised designs for them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Squats

When humans first began to explore the galaxy some of the earliest colonies were settled on the worlds toward the galactic core. At that time the mineral resources of the galactic centre were a rich prize, and thousands of specially adapted mining spacecraft set off to harvest the vast wealth of these inner planets.

The galactic core is characterised by extremely ancient suns which are dim in comparison with the stars of the spiral arms. Around these ancient stars orbit huge, rocky world, rich in minerals but in all other respects barren and lifeless. With very low levels of daylight, and extremely high gravity, these worlds are grey and cheerless, and inhospitable to life.

This part really makes it easy to have more of them without needing any sort of retcons. The galactic core has more than enough space and resources for them to be established there, and it is said to be mostly unexplored. Just say at some point a group of them split off and set up another small empire somewhere near the core.

 Flinty wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I wonder if the squat society will be closer to the emperors atheist vision for humanity.

Also as it been made clear they have retained STC’s, some which the imperium don’t have any more, will GW use the rhino as the basis for a LOV vehicle. I hope not

On the one hand it would be an awesome link to old fluff if all their vehicles were based on the rhino, but given that of all the imperial factions, only the marines and sisters use them any more it seems unlikely. On the other hand, if they still have functioning STCs then they wouldn’t need the rhino, as the systems will be spitting out more specific and optimised designs for them.

In the original fluff for the STCs, it wasn’t that the STC system could spit out any design you liked, it was that the STC could alter any of its designs to use local materials. So if all you had for fuel was wood, it would give you a Rhino hull with a steam turbine engine. Or if you didn’t have the machine tools and metals for a turbine, then you would get a good old fashioned firebox-and-pipes type.
This, we assume, is why “modern” leman russ hulls can be powered by burning heretics, amongst other things.

This is great MDG, great to see all this written down. Based on this lore, the look of the new Squats kind of makes a lot of sense

I’ll get on with the rest in a bit

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Squats

When humans first began to explore the galaxy some of the earliest colonies were settled on the worlds toward the galactic core. At that time the mineral resources of the galactic centre were a rich prize, and thousands of specially adapted mining spacecraft set off to harvest the vast wealth of these inner planets.

The galactic core is characterised by extremely ancient suns which are dim in comparison with the stars of the spiral arms. Around these ancient stars orbit huge, rocky world, rich in minerals but in all other respects barren and lifeless. With very low levels of daylight, and extremely high gravity, these worlds are grey and cheerless, and inhospitable to life.

This part really makes it easy to have more of them without needing any sort of retcons. The galactic core has more than enough space and resources for them to be established there, and it is said to be mostly unexplored. Just say at some point a group of them split off and set up another small empire somewhere near the core.

Also, being mostly lifeless makes them unattractive to the Tyranids as well. Pretty sure there’s several places where the Kin of the Leagues are the only sentient life and other than their hydroponic algae, the only life, period. Would make a good hiding spot. Heh, maybe that’s it; instead of being eaten, the Leagues just socially isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy until the infestation passed them by. And the Imperium didn’t generally notice because the xenotelecommunications (friendly) department of the Adeptus Terra is so low priority and understaffed that the In Tray is only looked at in shifts, once every century or so…

Found what I believe is the most recent mentioning of Squat background fluff: Necromunda; The Book of the Outcast.

Ragnir Gunnstein was born a noble of the Mjolnir Stronghold on its home world of Valskalf and was destined to have his name written in the sagas of his people. On the eve of his one hundredth year, however, Ragnir fell into a fratricidal blood feud with a brother Hearthguard, and was exiled from Mjolnir for all time.

So Hearthguard are still a thing atleast.

EDIT:

Dare I suggest that Valskalf and the Mjolnir Stronghold might be a hint at a major faction within the Leagues?

 Segersgia wrote:
Found what I believe is the most recent mentioning of Squat background fluff: Necromunda; The Book of the Outcast.

Ragnir Gunnstein was born a noble of the Mjolnir Stronghold on its home world of Valskalf and was destined to have his name written in the sagas of his people. On the eve of his one hundredth year, however, Ragnir fell into a fratricidal blood feud with a brother Hearthguard, and was exiled from Mjolnir for all time.

So Hearthguard are still a thing atleast.

EDIT:

Dare I suggest that Valskalf and the Mjolnir Stronghold might be a hint at a major faction within the Leagues?

That's a neat little find, very interesting that this is newer Squat lore. When did this book come out?

 Olthannon wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:
Found what I believe is the most recent mentioning of Squat background fluff: Necromunda; The Book of the Outcast.

Ragnir Gunnstein was born a noble of the Mjolnir Stronghold on its home world of Valskalf and was destined to have his name written in the sagas of his people. On the eve of his one hundredth year, however, Ragnir fell into a fratricidal blood feud with a brother Hearthguard, and was exiled from Mjolnir for all time.

So Hearthguard are still a thing atleast.

EDIT:

Dare I suggest that Valskalf and the Mjolnir Stronghold might be a hint at a major faction within the Leagues?

That's a neat little find, very interesting that this is newer Squat lore. When did this book come out?

a few years ago, when they produced the models. it was the first time since basically the squatted squats that any offical production actaully acknowledged the existiance and canonicity of the squats. retrospectively, it was first hint of the eventual return of them.

So, gw just dropped a little lore teaser :

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/22/the-leagues-of-votann-are-coming-but-what-actually-is-a-votann/


Some interesting tibits in their