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Perhaps this shows that GW was going to retire a LOT of resin kits with new plastic ones and the Corona messed up that process of release. So now a bunch of stuff is pushed further off than they like; but they still perhaps scaled back their plans and orders for Finecast/material for finecast.

So suddenly production has a shortfall and GW doesn't want to change that plan for a material, which is honestly, disliked in general.

Heck I know I've held off buying any finecast models so it might be GW sees this pattern too and that finecast stuff just is not selling, esp for 40K. So push it into range rotation and use that to reduce the abundance of finecast whilst also pushing for more plastic replacements

As with last month I find it hard to be upset or puzzled when a toy company discontinues low-selling 10 year+ old toys.

The only puzzling thing I find is this whole 'rotation' idea since I can't really see any of these coming back.

I will miss the Space Pope though, he was right on the line of stupid/awesome. His two well oiled muscular body guards tipped the balance for me into awesome land.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
As with last month I find it hard to be upset or puzzled when a toy company discontinues low-selling 10 year+ old toys.

That's not puzzling, but when they do that to the only models for several codex entries in one army it is a tad alarming. And considering how hard they have been pushing for 'no model, no rules' it is bizarre. What the new Drukhari players are supposed to do? They will see several units in their codex the GW sells no models for.

 Gert wrote:

Voss wrote:
I love this 'how dare you not like it, you must not be a real hobbyist' gatekeeping. And the wild assumption that anyone who doesn't like it never converts or kitbashes. [For clarity: this assumption is unsurprisingly baseless and wrong]

Never said you had to like it chief, just think people declaring this yet another end-of-the-world event is a joke. But sure, when you have ignored my point about there being loads of alternative options for those being removed (and at a better price bracket) how could I not be an elitist gatekeeper. Makes perfect sense.
Maybe instead of endlessly complaining, you could come up with solutions to the "problem". But complaining is easier isn't it?

So, on 'negative and fear-mongering' what, exactly, are the positives? What benefits is GW providing by disappearing parts of an army range? You've provided none, simply said it doesn't matter (to you, and therefor to everyone) because you've got yours and you'd rather convert anyway.

Less Finecast. Also, don't have any of the things going away and still don't understand why people seem so opposed to the concept of alternate models when usually the anti-GW crowd are all about alternate models.

What is not negative about parts of the army range going away, regardless of the maybe-temporary nature of that unavailability? It doesn't let them make new kits, because they've been ramping up on that over the years despite not doing range rotation.

See, that's your problem. You're so obsessed with seeing everything GW does as some slight that you'll just ignore that range rotation has been done with LotR and works fine. I never claimed it would allow new kits, I said it would be nice to see some. Everything has to be part of a big conspiracy for you otherwise you can't justify complaining all the time.
Go outside and touch some grass before you hurt yourself.

Wow, couldn't even answer one.
Just petty insults. Lovely.

Yeah I'm just not going to be able to see this as a problem unless they start cutting kits people actually want to buy.

What do the Dark Eldar have to do with Scenery Kits?

Bob Lorgar wrote:
What do the Dark Eldar have to do with Scenery Kits?

sacrusmundus has some awesome "dark eldar" style scenery for 3d prints, to my recollection i do not remember GW making any terrain for dark eldar proper.

Voss wrote:
And I've noticed we've already gone from the range rotation is 'Fine because its just marine characters' to 'Ah, you didn't buy those anyway, and its nothing you want multiple of'

Apologetic actions are a form of escalation unto themselves, especially when it comes to GW. And the "don't care, got mine" attitude is strong with that one.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The only puzzling thing I find is this whole 'rotation' idea since I can't really see any of these coming back.

It's probably just spin.

These models are going to a really nice farm up state where they can run and play as much as they like!

 Crimson wrote:
That's not puzzling, but when they do that to the only models for several codex entries in one army it is a tad alarming. And considering how hard they have been pushing for 'no model, no rules' it is bizarre. What the new Drukhari players are supposed to do? They will see several units in their codex the GW sells no models for.

Given the conclusion of the CHS case, smart bet is on those units just being removed from the Codex next time around.

So hope we get full Mandrake/Grotesque/Archon's Court/Beastmaster + Friends plastic releases, but don't expect it.

Bob Lorgar wrote:
What do the Dark Eldar have to do with Scenery Kits?

Didn't want to start a whole new thread for basically the same topic?

You have to admit though rotating out some rarely-used DEldar finecast models is a completely different beast to, for example, cutting 2/3s the roster including core units and characters. That is when an army is losing its support as a faction.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
As with last month I find it hard to be upset or puzzled when a toy company discontinues low-selling 10 year+ old toys.

But that's not what they're doing. These models all (the ones we're talking about, anyway) have rules in their most recent codexes, some of which came out only a month or so ago. It is really weird to on the one hand have these pretensions of being a competitive game and seeing them put a lot of effort (with mixed at best results) into that side of things only to at the same time be doing something that results in situations where you can't buy models that have rules. At a minimum it shows a lack of joined-up thinking.

Voss wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Voss wrote:
I love this 'how dare you not like it, you must not be a real hobbyist' gatekeeping. And the wild assumption that anyone who doesn't like it never converts or kitbashes. [For clarity: this assumption is unsurprisingly baseless and wrong]

Never said you had to like it chief, just think people declaring this yet another end-of-the-world event is a joke. But sure, when you have ignored my point about there being loads of alternative options for those being removed (and at a better price bracket) how could I not be an elitist gatekeeper. Makes perfect sense.
Maybe instead of endlessly complaining, you could come up with solutions to the "problem". But complaining is easier isn't it?

So, on 'negative and fear-mongering' what, exactly, are the positives? What benefits is GW providing by disappearing parts of an army range? You've provided none, simply said it doesn't matter (to you, and therefor to everyone) because you've got yours and you'd rather convert anyway.

Less Finecast. Also, don't have any of the things going away and still don't understand why people seem so opposed to the concept of alternate models when usually the anti-GW crowd are all about alternate models.

What is not negative about parts of the army range going away, regardless of the maybe-temporary nature of that unavailability? It doesn't let them make new kits, because they've been ramping up on that over the years despite not doing range rotation.

See, that's your problem. You're so obsessed with seeing everything GW does as some slight that you'll just ignore that range rotation has been done with LotR and works fine. I never claimed it would allow new kits, I said it would be nice to see some. Everything has to be part of a big conspiracy for you otherwise you can't justify complaining all the time.
Go outside and touch some grass before you hurt yourself.

Wow, couldn't even answer one.
Just petty insults. Lovely.

I mean... I tend to make an effort to be pretty positive in online spaces. But whoa, when I read what Gert had written this time my eyes rolled on their own and I began to bleed from all of my orifices.

I should get that checked out

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
As with last month I find it hard to be upset or puzzled when a toy company discontinues low-selling 10 year+ old toys.

But that's not what they're doing. These models all (the ones we're talking about, anyway) have rules in their most recent codexes, some of which came out only a month or so ago. It is really weird to on the one hand have these pretensions of being a competitive game and seeing them put a lot of effort (with mixed at best results) into that side of things only to at the same time be doing something that results in situations where you can't buy models that have rules. At a minimum it shows a lack of joined-up thinking.

Plenty of wargames, including GW up until Chapterhouse, have commonly released rules for units with no models and have been doing so for decades. It really isn't a big issue.

But this is GW post-Chapterhouse. That's the point.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But this is GW post-Chapterhouse. That's the point.

LotR says hi with the exact same thing going on and there doesn't seem to be any problems there chief. Keep grinding that axe though.

It isn't good in LotR either, people just accept it because LotR is a game that's been more or less on life support for a while now; it's got two book releases in the past two years, and very limited new model support. I'm not sure that's a great comparison. If LotR was the future of 40k, GW would be in big trouble.

I still don’t understand why they can’t have a “made to order” style category where you can register interest in a model (perhaps with a deposit or even a full pre-order), such that when they get to a reasonable number they can do a production run. Given how mainstream Kickstarter and other crowd-funding systems are these days, I’m sure the customers could cope with the concept of “you’ll get this in a while, but not now”.

yukishiro1 wrote:
It isn't good in LotR either, people just accept it because LotR is a game that's been more or less on life support for a while now; it's got two book releases in the past two years, and very limited new model support. I'm not sure that's a great comparison. If LotR was the future of 40k, GW would be in big trouble.

You could take HH as an example then, Forgeworld has discontinued about 50% of the range years ago. Though I have to be careful there, GW definitely had their sights on folding the "old" Forgeworld into main line GW and have Forgeworld only do some specialist stuff and big kits even before Alan Bligh's passing.

Tbh, I have mixed feelings on the topics of discontinuation. On the one hand, I am used to way worse by other companies that run editions on their printruns and if you don't get your toys while they last, good luck praying for another print run or even just hope that they won't abandon the entire toyline. So I am glad when things just last for years with GW. They even still have half of the Krieg line, I was so sure it would have been discontinued and burried even in the background years ago. (Looking at you Elysia and Harakon, I have not forgotten you, even if GW denies you ever existed)

On the other hand GW is so laughingly obsessed to enforce model conventions that it steers the customer base such that they can only ever live with the original product. I understand that if I'd have expectation to myself to only use official products I'd feel slapped in the face if it would be just discontinued without substitute. GW used to be a lot healthier on the customise and scratch built front. I just wish that would come back, because it is logistically unavoidable that GW has to cut it's catalogue at some point and it sadly looks rather like GW is only getting more silly with their regulations.

 Jadenim wrote:
I still don’t understand why they can’t have a “made to order” style category where you can register interest in a model (perhaps with a deposit or even a full pre-order), such that when they get to a reasonable number they can do a production run. Given how mainstream Kickstarter and other crowd-funding systems are these days, I’m sure the customers could cope with the concept of “you’ll get this in a while, but not now”.

Beucase that doesn't generate hype when they do a "limited run" with all the fanfare and the related FOMO. See, for example, the latest SM captains one. Do you really think most of the people who end up buying one of those at those prices actually wanted or was looking to get one before they announced it?

This way they sell more of whatever they put up just because otherwise people will "miss out" on them. Or, IOW, "buy now, or else".

yukishiro1 wrote:
It isn't good in LotR either, people just accept it because LotR is a game that's been more or less on life support for a while now; it's got two book releases in the past two years, and very limited new model support. I'm not sure that's a great comparison. If LotR was the future of 40k, GW would be in big trouble.

Well, but the rules would be better and longlived, narrative support would be stronger, balance would improve and there would never be any models phased out... Thinking about it treating 40K like Lotr would be the best thing that could happen to 40k

 Jadenim wrote:
I still don’t understand why they can’t have a “made to order” style category where you can register interest in a model (perhaps with a deposit or even a full pre-order), such that when they get to a reasonable number they can do a production run. Given how mainstream Kickstarter and other crowd-funding systems are these days, I’m sure the customers could cope with the concept of “you’ll get this in a while, but not now”.

Because that would probably require new functionality to be added to the online store that they don't want to pay for because they already paid far too much to Kirby's wife's tech company for it.
That and as Albertorius said, they want to capitalise on the psychological effect

HH and LotR pretty much live (life? not sure) from 3rd parties here

We have some big scenes for both, and while the LotR people praise historical ranges (like Victrix Normans) as base for conversions, the HH people say Hello to China
There is a reason GW goes plastic with a new armour mark

And for the online communities, the biggest complain I read nowadays about Kings of War is that there are units without model support (and Mantic should rather remove them until models are made, which is one reason why Deadzone and Firefight only have units in new Edition core rules were models are available)

For GW removing Finecast is understandable, but expect the units to be gone not replaced
This is just another sales model to clean stock before those are removed (as an alternative to sell them on discount)
I expect the next Editions will clean up the units and remove all non-plastic unit entries

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And the 3rd edition "Grotesque" models are among the least successfully executed concepts of that old range, which is saying a lot. I don't think many people used them even back in 1998.

Them and the OG Oblits.

Not a great time for 'big' infantry.

While the oblits were much maligned at the time, those grotesques were anything but 'big'. They were just mishapen dark eldar warriors. Scrawny, metal, only a few different sculpts. They werent meant to be big at that time.

I know oblits werent very big either, but they sure did try to cram as much crap onto that 25mm base as they could. Literally. XD

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bob Lorgar wrote:
What do the Dark Eldar have to do with Scenery Kits?

Didn't want to start a whole new thread for basically the same topic?

We should just have a mod change the thread title and make this the official Rotation/Last Chance to Buy thread.

It's not like GW will stop dropping things.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have to admit though rotating out some rarely-used DEldar finecast models is a completely different beast to, for example, cutting 2/3s the roster including core units and characters. That is when an army is losing its support as a faction.

I'm inclined to say retiring Dark Eldar models of all things with no hint of plastic replacements sends the wrong message, considering how much the army has lost due to GW's reluctance to release new models for all those past HQ entries.

The issue I see with this whole deal is that while we have GW's explicit statement that they intend to keep the rules for these units around, there's no commitment to keeping them in the respective codices and we have long years of experience with how far GW is willing to take the no model, no rules concept. What is a loss in rarely bought models now may turn into a loss of options in the rules when the next codex rolls around.

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bob Lorgar wrote:
What do the Dark Eldar have to do with Scenery Kits?

Didn't want to start a whole new thread for basically the same topic?

We should just have a mod change the thread title and make this the official Rotation/Last Chance to Buy thread.

It's not like GW will stop dropping things.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have to admit though rotating out some rarely-used DEldar finecast models is a completely different beast to, for example, cutting 2/3s the roster including core units and characters. That is when an army is losing its support as a faction.

I'm inclined to say retiring Dark Eldar models of all things with no hint of plastic replacements sends the wrong message, considering how much the army has lost due to GW's reluctance to release new models for all those past HQ entries.

The issue I see with this whole deal is that while we have GW's explicit statement that they intend to keep the rules for these units around, there's no commitment to keeping them in the respective codices and we have long years of experience with how far GW is willing to take the no model, no rules concept. What is a loss in rarely bought models now may turn into a loss of options in the rules when the next codex rolls around.

Thats a good point actually, if the removal of model options will be reflected on the next wave of official dexes.
Personally Im inclined to believe that those chunks of models will be put on the rotation loop and then they will bring some few of them back for themed campaigns with multiple books. All will be limited in time and discontinued after.
If the reason given is really the lack of storage capacity then both main games will probably have constant rotation of miniatures that will appear back into production at random times for campaigns.
Also I dont know if their increase in merchandising products accelerated the storage issues.

People saying they dont sell so its fair enough may be in for a really nice future when all you will see stocked is different colours of space marines...

I prefer when things are clear and not muddy regarding catalogues to be honest. Cant have big ranges? Reduce them then and move along like others do.

Court of the archon or a beast master plus beasties would make a rather unique and fun kill team release.

I find it so strange that some people really want to be upset about this. Like, GW is not at all a company with a lack of policies to criticize or actions to be legitimately upset over. To pick this trivial instance is baffling to me. The loss of terrain kits is a bigger deal than the loss of some finecast DEldar no one planned to buy.

A couple of plastic Clawed Fiends in different poses would be nice. Really anything the Beastmaster has. Certainly would beat paying that price for the Razorwing flock.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I find it so strange that some people really want to be upset about this. Like, GW is not at all a company with a lack of policies to criticize or actions to be legitimately upset over. To pick this trivial instance is baffling to me. The loss of terrain kits is a bigger deal than the loss of some finecast DEldar no one planned to buy.

I find it so strange that some people really want to be upset about this. Like, GW is not at all a company with a lack of policies to criticize or actions to be legitimately upset over. To pick this trivial instance is baffling to me. The loss of space marine kits is a bigger deal than the loss of some terrain kits no one planned to buy.

We can be here all day... whats not important to you personally does not give you a free pass on shutting down whats important to others...

For me the saddest thing is that even if finecast isn't a popular material, I dislike when GW's battletomes/codex/games end up with models that you cannot purchase from them and can only get through 3rd parties, secondhand or converting.

I recall the days before Chapterhouse Lawsuit where GW was adding a lot more models to armies in Codex,but never getting around to release them as actual models. For anyone playing in GW stores (no 3rd party) or who just wanted an official army or who didn't have the skill to convert well - it meant many models that were new, shiny and great, were locked out to them.

This is kind of returning to those times, esp with the wave of Dark Eldar cuts.


Even if they aren't the best on the tabletop, I dislike people not having the choice from GW to buy those models. It's a shame and I really hope this is just a short term blip reflecting GW pushing finecast off the shelves; in advance of plastic updates.




It does seem that this is either a major production shortfall issue or that GW was planning on doing this, but lost time over the last 2 years to replace those kits with plastic ones that are designed; however they had to keep going as they'd cut supplies of finecast.


Interesting thing to note is that the last Made to Order for Eldar were all metal, despite some being finecast before the end. This might mean that if/when these models return they could be all metal again.

 Overread wrote:
For me the saddest thing is that even if finecast isn't a popular material, I dislike when GW's battletomes/codex/games end up with models that you cannot purchase from them and can only get through 3rd parties, secondhand or converting.

You'll like it even less when those things get cut because they have no available miniatures.