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Well guys, we're bringing back Squats, but aside from giving them a name that's somehow more unique and less memorable, we don't want people to confuse them with any old, common or garden dwarves.
I know, how about we just shave off all the beards?
Their whole direction for them is just baffling.
Something that is meant be a sci-fi version of the fantasy Dwarf archetype, that can't have the iconic proper, big bushy beards, because the fairly generic sci-fi armour design they've gone for comes up to their chin.
Rather than using the two popular Necromunda miniatures as a starting point, which were already a great modernization of the originals, they start over entirely and make something that doesn't pay much homage to those at all design-wise. The helmets for theses are reminiscent of their originals, though.
A complete lack of Dwarven iconography or any embellishments at all to help realize in to the Dwarf theming. Some was seen in the artwork and these kind of have some, at least.
A Slightly retro sci-fi/diselpunk style of technology, which is great, but yet more anti-grav even though that's something already far too prevalent. It feels like it's just the default uninspired choice for "high-tech". Lots of possiblities they could have gone for to make the Trike fit in and stand out (Just the wheels would look fine as shown above, or a half-track, or anti-grav and a wheel/ball at the front, or the two wheels at the front like a Polaris Slingshot, or propeller-based engines etc) but nope, just "make it anti-grav, that'll do".
Dwarven strongholds being big well-defend undergound places with halls of stone and all that is another quite iconic element of them, so instead they're potentially making the Leagues ship-based (All wearing void suits and plenty of mentions of them being Star Farers / Among the stars, but nothing else even hinted at).
A possibility that they may all be amputees (The first reveal miniature is, the Pioneer has ankles that are far too thin to be natural, and there's a robitic leg in the rumour engine).
No doubt they're going to make the Demiurg turn out to be the Squats, too. This article kind of suggests it even more with them being not quite the same as the Leagues of Votann.
So overall we've got generic Sci-fi "Dwarfs", with iconic elements of the archetype taken away so they are neither proper fantasy dwarfs, or Squats.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:19:19
Not Online!!! wrote: The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent, the above looks like a bunch of carnival goers that miss half their costume and armor.
They look like members of a Chaos Cult to me:
The throng of rabble that call for the favour of the Dark Gods, and then the higher escalations who have better equipment and even clothing because they have reaped the benefits of being the ones in charge.
literally ALL chaos cults that have been portrayed as competent / worth a damn have been uniformed enough. And certainly not stupid enough to not realise that wearing a shirt is an advantage nvm armor plates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:16:33
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent,
Two defining traits that cultists have been known by for decades.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Well guys, we're bringing back Squats, but aside from giving them a name that's somehow more unique and less memorable, we don't want people to confuse them with any old, common or garden dwarves.
I know, how about we just shave off all the beards?
Of the two models they've shown, one has a beard and one doesn't.
Today's 'actual squats' models are a mishmash of facial hair. Beardless chin, goatee, full beard, mutton chops and hidden chin, and 4 where there's no way of knowing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:20:03
Voss wrote: Warcry has been doing a 'yadda, yadda' on minor chaos powers since the start. I don't know the explanation. But one gang worships a fire god, another 'darkness?' or something.
The Warcry cultist bands are each largely from all the different realms, whose people are largely tribal due to Chaos' control of the realms for so long. The fire ones are from Aqshy (realm of fire). The darkness ones are from Ulgu (realm of shadows). But they all worship the Chaos gods, even if they don't know the real name of them or that they are worshiping Chaos at all. The original premise of Warcry was the peoples of the Mortal Realms were drawn to 8-points to basically impress Archaon.
I like to think jokingly-not joking, that GW keeps making these kits every time someone wants regular humans in Age of Sigmar. These ARE the regular warrior humans of Age of Sigmar. The Cities of Sigmar are but singular bastions of Order on a vast field of Chaos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:18:24
The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent,
Two defining traits that cultists have been known by for decades.
you are talking about a CULT an organised religion, not an angry mob. Don't ever mistake one for the other.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: literally ALL chaos cults that have been portrayed as competent / worth a damn have been uniformed enough. And certainly not stupid enough to not realise that wearing a shirt is an advantage nvm armor plates.
Say what?
These are Chaos Cultists. This is what they look like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:19:33
I for one take 100 darksouls dudes OVER striptease moron carneval cultists.
I don't know what either of those are. Which cultists look like they're from Dark Souls? And who are the carnival(?) cultists?
I _think_ different people are insulting the different kits while thinking they're agreeing with each other? I'm not sure if it matters which person likes or dislikes which.
These are the moronical striptease unorganised rabble cultists.
these are the "darksoul" cultists
The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent, the above looks like a bunch of carnival goers that miss half their costume and armor.
Ah, got it. Sorry they aren't your cup of tea. That's always frustrating.
Not Online!!! wrote: The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent, the above looks like a bunch of carnival goers that miss half their costume and armor.
They look like members of a Chaos Cult to me:
The throng of rabble that call for the favour of the Dark Gods, and then the higher escalations who have better equipment and even clothing because they have reaped the benefits of being the ones in charge.
That was my take too. I really dig it, honestly. Much preferred over the Dark Vengeance cultists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:20:36
H.B.M.C. wrote: Traitor Guard are very nice. Far cleaner than I would have expected.
For sure compared to the wannabe Saurons with autopistols from day 1
Yeesss! There's my R&H infantry. And they've brought along an Ogryn and HQ
Here's looking forward to a separate release for the Traitor Guardsmen and hopefully a full squad of those Ogryns.
Is the traitor commisar still an HQ, more importantly do we rekon he will remain an HQ?
Regardless, separate release of the traitor guardsmen can't happen fast enough.
Are there any HQs in KT?
Well he counted as an HQ in the for fielding him and traitor guardsmen in 40k after the release off blackstone fortress. If he is still an HQ well then we may even be able to skip the cult HQ squad. Alas they renamed him from traitor commisar to Enforcer, which IS another nod torwards the old R&H list, where they didn't count as HQ.
Interestingly, I can't find any of the Chaos stuff from BSF in the 2022 Power Level Update, nor the French version of the MFM. Can't find the Nurgle side of the Rogue Trader box, though the basic Rogue Trader elements are still in there.
+ + +
Four arms, four legs... so this Chaos Centaur is in fact a spider?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
The lower ones with their robes look atleast organised and competent,
Two defining traits that cultists have been known by for decades.
you are talking about a CULT an organised religion, not an angry mob. Don't ever mistake one for the other.
I'm talking about expendable, low point cost, low stat meat shields that you throw wherever you feel something more valuable needs protection. Not the Sandford Parish Council.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Not Online!!! wrote: literally ALL chaos cults that have been portrayed as competent / worth a damn have been uniformed enough. And certainly not stupid enough to not realise that wearing a shirt is an advantage nvm armor plates.
I'm trying to take "literally ALL" at face value but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels clearly portray cultists as such, which is why when the Blood Pact show up the Sabbat Worlds Crusade forces are in shock because they are now fighting an organized military.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
Dreamchild wrote: Out of genuine interest (I'm really not trying to taste-shame anybody, just really curious) - why do so many people go bananas over the fire hydrant necromunda squats? (please ignore if off-topic)
My guess is people like the Mantic Squats but always wished they cost twice as much.
And they're even more shirtless than the current ones.
judgedoug wrote: I'm trying to take "literally ALL" at face value but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels clearly portray cultists as such, which is why when the Blood Pact show up the Sabbat Worlds Crusade forces are in shock because they are now fighting an organized military.
The Blood Pact are even unusual in the realms of cults.
Organised military =/= Chaos Cults.
Chaos Cults are like real cults:
Rabble at the bottom + privileged leadership with all the best stuff (and their bodyguards) at the top.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:27:53
Well guys, we're bringing back Squats, but aside from giving them a name that's somehow more unique and less memorable, we don't want people to confuse them with any old, common or garden dwarves.
I know, how about we just shave off all the beards?
Of the two models they've shown, one has a beard and one doesn't.
Today's 'actual squats' models are a mishmash of facial hair. Beardless chin, goatee, full beard, mutton chops and hidden chin, and 4 where there's no way of knowing.
Or, to put it another way, only 2 of the new models possess what many would list right near the top of defining characteristics for the race. If this was a fantasy release (where some contemporaries have armoured beards) people would be scratching their heads.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I think perhaps there's a bit of confusion with a cult in our modern sense and what 40k means by cultists. Cultist is 40k means a fething nut case. Ergo that means walking around taps aff screaming bloody murder.
Clear aesthetic difference between the traitor guard from Kill Team and the whacky wee cultists.
I think both look pretty great, get a nice mix of rabble.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And they're even more shirtless than the current ones.
judgedoug wrote: I'm trying to take "literally ALL" at face value but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels clearly portray cultists as such, which is why when the Blood Pact show up the Sabbat Worlds Crusade forces are in shock because they are now fighting an organized military.
The Blood Pact are even unusual in the realms of cults.
Organised military =/= Chaos Cults.
Chaos Cults are like real cults:
Rabble at the bottom + privileged leadership with all the best stuff (and their bodyguards) at the top.
Yeah as HBMC rightly points out, Blood Pact and Sons of Sek in Gaunt's Ghosts are described as a hardline proper armed force at complete odds with the fanatical cultists from some of the other campaigns. In the books, they make it obvious they are totally different.
Well guys, we're bringing back Squats, but aside from giving them a name that's somehow more unique and less memorable, we don't want people to confuse them with any old, common or garden dwarves.
I know, how about we just shave off all the beards?
Of the two models they've shown, one has a beard and one doesn't.
Today's 'actual squats' models are a mishmash of facial hair. Beardless chin, goatee, full beard, mutton chops and hidden chin, and 4 where there's no way of knowing.
Or, to put it another way, only 2 of the new models possess what many would list right near the top of defining characteristics for the race. If this was a fantasy release (where some contemporaries have armoured beards) people would be scratching their heads.
Meh? 'Our Dwarves/dwarfs/(elfs) are Different' is a cliche for a reason. Dark Sun went full 'no hair whatsoever.' for dwarves. Or maybe just the half-dwarves.
But still, you've got to admit, 2 of 6 (with additional levels of facial hair on two more) is pretty different from your starting position of 'shave off all the beards!'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/06 17:32:55
Olthannon wrote: I think perhaps there's a bit of confusion with a cult in our modern sense and what 40k means by cultists. Cultist is 40k means a fething nut case. Ergo that means walking around taps aff screaming bloody murder.
Clear aesthetic difference between the traitor guard from Kill Team and the whacky wee cultists.
I think both look pretty great, get a nice mix of rabble.
Seriously. They will definitely work well for Adam's fantasies of mindless Chaos Worshippers charging his Dark Angels.
I also really like them as the basis for the God-specific Legion armies, as the chaff thrown at their enemies to wear them down. Thousand Sons with these and some Tzaangor with mega-sorcerers at the back, protected by Rubric Marine bodyguards. Hell yes.
Dreamchild wrote: Out of genuine interest (I'm really not trying to taste-shame anybody, just really curious) - why do so many people go bananas over the fire hydrant necromunda squats? (please ignore if off-topic)
My guess is people like the Mantic Squats but always wished they cost twice as much.
I wish Ronnie would spend twice as much and hire someone that can actually sculpt.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Starfarer wrote: None of the expansions have featured 2 brand new factions with new models.
Sure they have. Phobos Marines and the newer style Chaos Marines were 100% new in their box, and that wasn't the start of a new edition for 40k.
Again, GW's inconsistency is their only consistency. You can't look at past performance and try to put it forth as a pattern. You're just as likely to be wrong as you are correct.
I was referring to Kill Team expansions, not 40k boxes.
And it turns out the reveal shows that remains consistent and I was correct.
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Olthannon wrote: I think perhaps there's a bit of confusion with a cult in our modern sense and what 40k means by cultists. Cultist is 40k means a fething nut case. Ergo that means walking around taps aff screaming bloody murder.
Clear aesthetic difference between the traitor guard from Kill Team and the whacky wee cultists.
I think both look pretty great, get a nice mix of rabble.
Seriously. They will definitely work well for Adam's fantasies of mindless Chaos Worshippers charging his Dark Angels.
I also really like them as the basis for the God-specific Legion armies, as the chaff thrown at their enemies to wear them down. Thousand Sons with these and some Tzaangor with mega-sorcerers at the back, protected by Rubric Marine bodyguards. Hell yes.
It also works well for different legions. Alphas might want to corrupt an existing military, WBs might want the disposable rabble. Its a lot more options than I expected.
I just hope the codex doesn't jack them over the way the current rules do. With this much model support, they need to be a functional part of the codex, not an afterthought that is slowly disqualified from all the benefits while keeping the point hike from when they got some rules support.
Rabble at the bottom + privileged leadership with all the best stuff (and their bodyguards) at the top.
What's the dividing line between a cult and a church, again?
God Ted, I’ve heard about those cults. Everyone dressing in black and saying our Lord’s going to come back and judge us all.
No…no Dougal, that’s us. That’s Catholicism you’re talking about there.
I'd forgotten all about them somehow.
