Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

if waha went down, most regulars at my LGS would stop playing lol.

if (when) battlescribe stops working, the rest will follow

Good riddance I say.

Moorecox wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

if waha went down, most regulars at my LGS would stop playing lol.

if (when) battlescribe stops working, the rest will follow

Good riddance I say.

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book but GW might feel it in their checkbook.

Hecaton wrote:

Moorecox wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

if waha went down, most regulars at my LGS would stop playing lol.

if (when) battlescribe stops working, the rest will follow

Good riddance I say.

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book but GW might feel it in their checkbook.

No they won't. Piracy has been repeatedly proven to have very little effect on sales and if it does it tends to be positive. Also spare that "pay the creators" crap. When you buy a GW book the creators have been paid well before you got your hand on the book/model, when you buy a GW product you're paying the shareholders.

I think to draw a line under it, it's an expensive hobby and the books are an overhead cost for a hobbyist essentially they want to try and avoid, knowing it has a shelf life.

Pirating isn't right but for some people it saves their hobby budget for more kits, I just wish fewer people did the "I pirate out of principle due to low quality" tag line, because it's inevitably an excuse for most, not all admittedly, but most.

Dudeface wrote:
Pirating isn't right but for some people it saves their hobby budget for more kits, I just wish fewer people did the "I pirate out of principle due to low quality" tag line, because it's inevitably an excuse for most, not all admittedly, but most.

Bringing up anti-piracy arguments is pointless on Dakka, because people that disagree with you cannot post their opinions. You should minimize the amount of purchases of GW's expensive landfill books to lessen GW's incentive to print garbage books that hold no value after 12 months. Get one of each book your playgroup uses for your playgroup and don't get books you don't need and don't get multiple copies of a codex even if multiple people play the same faction unless the quality and value of the book is good. I personally own the 9th edition core rulebook, good value and lots of high quality changes. Necrons Codex? Why would I? It's garbage for the most part, there is some nice new art but the rules are janky overdesigned, unbalanced and already out of date. I can just share one with my playgroup. GW's plastic kits are not garbage and will last me 5-20 years.

 Sim-Life wrote:
No they won't. Piracy has been repeatedly proven to have very little effect on sales and if it does it tends to be positive. Also spare that "pay the creators" crap. When you buy a GW book the creators have been paid well before you got your hand on the book/model, when you buy a GW product you're paying the shareholders.

I think it varies. I'd say its pretty clear piracy nuked the music industry - and its only now, in a very different form, that its sort of recovered. You can argue other issues - but I don't think its surprising. With things like computer games its often unclear - because the most pirated games are often the highest selling. Its fair to say not all of those would have been sales - but some of them would have.

Equally however GW may potentially miss out due to barriers to entry. Two friends I played with in the 2000s dug out their armies on the back of 8th and were thinking about getting back into the hobby. Then they discovered a codex would be £30~. Which immediately prompted "....nah" and that was that.
I don't think they'd have ever got hugely into it - but if getting hold of their army's rules had been £10, they'd have bought them, probably played a few games and... well maybe that would be that. Or maybe they'd have bought a unit or two to modernise their armies (or started completely new ones) and gone down the usual plastic addict route.

Hecaton wrote:

Moorecox wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Nah, hire some "security experts" and eliminate it instead.

That sort of behaviour should not be rewarded.

You mean putting in thankless effort as a third party to make their game actually playable at official events? Lol. If Waha went down the playability of 40k would suffer dramatically.

if waha went down, most regulars at my LGS would stop playing lol.

if (when) battlescribe stops working, the rest will follow

Good riddance I say.

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book but GW might feel it in their checkbook.

And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

Why would anyone be happy about Battlescribe going away?

Personal dislike of the person who created it. Taking enjoyment from something others like being destroyed or removed. Ton of reasons.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why would anyone be happy about Battlescribe going away?

I, for one, would be completely thrilled that I'd never have to parse the garbage format it spits out again. Also, maybe people would learn their actual rules instead of what was typed up into Battlescribe. I don't think I've played a single game against somebody using Battlescribe as their rules resource/list builder where they didn't have 1 or more rule entirely wrong from the printout.

And of course, most of these people don't actually have their codex in my experience so there's the arduous process of "hang on, I happen to know this is wrong, I just need to find my source".

Battlescribe has caused far more problems than it has solved, in my experience.

ccs 805044 11378419 wrote:

And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

That is like wishing mud to a Woodstock or Ironman participant, and expecting that it will cause the person discomfort.

 Rihgu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why would anyone be happy about Battlescribe going away?

I, for one, would be completely thrilled that I'd never have to parse the garbage format it spits out again. Also, maybe people would learn their actual rules instead of what was typed up into Battlescribe. I don't think I've played a single game against somebody using Battlescribe as their rules resource/list builder where they didn't have 1 or more rule entirely wrong from the printout.

And of course, most of these people don't actually have their codex in my experience so there's the arduous process of "hang on, I happen to know this is wrong, I just need to find my source".

Battlescribe has caused far more problems than it has solved, in my experience.

Since you joined Dakka in 2013 you know perfectly well how little people knew their rules back before digital rules aides became more popular. That was also in a time where there were far fewer rules to remember in the first place. Lots of people played chimera editions for years because they mixed different editions together. At least people cannot just invent new units when using Battlescribe.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why would anyone be happy about Battlescribe going away?

I, for one, would be completely thrilled that I'd never have to parse the garbage format it spits out again. Also, maybe people would learn their actual rules instead of what was typed up into Battlescribe. I don't think I've played a single game against somebody using Battlescribe as their rules resource/list builder where they didn't have 1 or more rule entirely wrong from the printout.

And of course, most of these people don't actually have their codex in my experience so there's the arduous process of "hang on, I happen to know this is wrong, I just need to find my source".

Battlescribe has caused far more problems than it has solved, in my experience.

Since you joined Dakka in 2013 you know perfectly well how little people knew their rules back before digital rules aides became more popular. That was also in a time where there were far fewer rules to remember in the first place. Lots of people played chimera editions for years because they mixed different editions together. At least people cannot just invent new units when using Battlescribe.

Honestly, I didn't even know Battlescribe existed until around 8th came out, which might speak to the insularity of my group up until that point?

I think, if I'm digging back real deep, my first experience with Battlescribe was playing Horus Heresy at the NOVA convention in 2017. The printout for the Iron Warriors rules (can't remember if it was Legiones Astartes or a Rite of War) were entirely wrong which I didn't find out until later. I then didn't see or hear about Battlescribe again until 8th came out and that's when everybody, including my own group, started using it.

In my experience Battlescribe hasn't stopped people getting their rules wrong - or pulling the "no wait, I remember this unit has this rule" (cue, it did, about 3 editions ago).

But it made throwing lists together far easier for people who were vaguely intent on being honest. Rather than having to sit with a codex for half an hour putting things to paper.

Yeah, battle scribe really took off with 8th for my group as well, since most tools we used until then simply didn't make or weren't fast enough to make the jump from 7th.

People using it as their only source of rules really started with Space Marine 2.0 and PA though, when people were getting pissed of heaving their expensive books invalidated so quickly.

Do we think this thread has run its course...? Seems like there isn't really a topic anymore.

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Do we think this thread has run its course...? Seems like there isn't really a topic anymore.

I found the first part with the tournament analysis fascinating. But it looks like we’ve moved past that.

Hecaton wrote:

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

Hopefully your luck runs out then.

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

Hopefully your luck runs out then.

Man, imagine people not spending money they know they don't need to or that they shouldn't out of principle, and you're that bitter about it LOL

EviscerationPlague wrote:

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

Hopefully your luck runs out then.

Man, imagine people not spending money they know they don't need to or that they shouldn't out of principle, and you're that bitter about it LOL

Imagine defending someone saying

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book

Like pushing people put of the hobby altogether is a good thing and LOLing about it.

 Dysartes wrote:

- I have consistently been against the piracy of content. Pay creators, don't pirate their work.

I've seen this ugly, ignorant oversimplification on Dakka before and it needs to be called out ASAP, because there's little that's more disgraceful than someone coopting a valid ethical position on behalf of a corporation.

Games Workshop is not a creator.

Games Workshop does not ethically distribute reward among the creatives who work there.

You are not supporting or paying creators by buying Games Workshop product.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

Hopefully your luck runs out then.

Man, imagine people not spending money they know they don't need to or that they shouldn't out of principle, and you're that bitter about it LOL

Imagine defending someone saying

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book

Like pushing people put of the hobby altogether is a good thing and LOLing about it.

Sarcasm is a bit hard for you, isn't it?

lol
What a dumpster fire.

In eastern europe it is considered part of your salary. Of course one person is going to hire his entire family, build his mom a house with company money claiming it is a brench building, while someone else is just taking home stuff like printer paper, pens, cleaning products etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface 805044 11378552 wrote:

Like pushing people put of the hobby altogether is a good thing and LOLing about it.

That is odd, because people that defend the so called casuals, are all in for having people out of the hobby, if they don't like or care about stuff like narrative or the models being painted.

I think this Codex is yet another indication that GW need to have more rigorous play-testing. They need some in-house competitive players to truly stress-test the concepts being developed. I have no knowledge of the inner workings of GW, but with their release schedule there is not likely time to finish the book and then get feedback from competitive players that can be incorporated. The suits want product shipped. The devs then likely cross their fingers.

I am glad, though, that modern GW does make an effort to re-balance after release. There is a risk for the company that players will hold-off buying new books/armies until the dust settles. I think the risk is worth it.

I read comments that books are made invalid after release due to the balance fixes. Points changes do not bother me - the book is more or less intact. When a datasheet gets altered, though, doubt does creep in when working with the book. One or two datasheets is not a huge deal and its worth the effort to fix problems than to leave it to the community as has happened before. Ideally the devs get the fundamental concepts right for units and they then just adjust points.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

- I have consistently been against the piracy of content. Pay creators, don't pirate their work.

I've seen this ugly, ignorant oversimplification on Dakka before and it needs to be called out ASAP, because there's little that's more disgraceful than someone coopting a valid ethical position on behalf of a corporation.

Games Workshop is not a creator.

Games Workshop does not ethically distribute reward among the creatives who work there.

You are not supporting or paying creators by buying Games Workshop product.

Yeah. Sure. Do you know what happens when the Shareholders don't get enough dividends on their investment?

First, the non-ethically distributed bonuses disappear, leaving your beleaguered creatives even poorer.
Next, they start laying off beleaguered creatives to improve the bottom line.

So please, don't pirate your content if you want to see anything resembling decent content in the future. The first one to suffer is the little guy, not the bosses and investors.

What happened last time GW was in dire straights because they had been producing terrible rules and people left the hobby? They produced a tonne of content and made a much better new edition. Supporting what is currently being produced gets you more of what is currently being produced, this should not be a surprise.

 alextroy wrote:
Yeah. Sure. Do you know what happens when the Shareholders don't get enough dividends on their investment?

First, the non-ethically distributed bonuses disappear, leaving your beleaguered creatives even poorer.
Next, they start laying off beleaguered creatives to improve the bottom line.

So please, don't pirate your content if you want to see anything resembling decent content in the future. The first one to suffer is the little guy, not the bosses and investors.

No, GW is not 100% going to be in a disinvestment cycle. What you're supposing would indicate that there's no way to get higher quality products out of GW. If the product sells fine, why wouldn't they keep making more along those lines?

As a philosophical point, I generally dislike IP laws. They stifle innovation more than encourage it.

Hecaton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

ccs wrote:


And I hope all your tourney experiences are miserable slogs through an unbalanced Hellscape.

They're not, luckily.

Hopefully your luck runs out then.

Man, imagine people not spending money they know they don't need to or that they shouldn't out of principle, and you're that bitter about it LOL

Imagine defending someone saying

I mean stuff that keeps the filthy casuals out is all good in my book

Like pushing people put of the hobby altogether is a good thing and LOLing about it.

Sarcasm is a bit hard for you, isn't it?

It is when your posting material lines up with your sarcastic comments, easy to mistake it for being a legitimate statement.