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Well to me we are going to see kit that is similar to Neophytes, which is good. (minus the price).

Although I hope we are going to see bit more on that Command Squad as the old kit was pretty good when it came to options.

Hmmm... I think I'm going to get the army box. And shadow vault. I'm a Krieg player, and want my army to remain Krieg, but there was always something about having mixed regiments in second edition that I really liked. I also want the codex ASAP so that is another factor.

If worst comes to the worst, I'll move on some of the kits I don't need, but I'm fairly confident I can convert some of the new kits via kit bash with the Krieg Vet kit to make some new variety of Krieg units there. Though... I also think I should wait, as the optimist in me still thinks we will get more Krieg kits in plastic at some point.

Really, for me anyway, I just want a unit of new kit bashed catachan to be mordant acid dogs and some kit bashed salvar chem dogs to add in for variety anyway in terms of mixing regiments.

 GiToRaZor wrote:
I do notice, that in style this moves Cadia away from Cold War area NATO troops and more towards US in Korea/Vietnam in gear.

What do you mean ? The US army is literally a NATO army and the Korean and Vietnam wars were part of the Cold War

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options.

Because people already own those, and no one owns any of these, and they want you to buy new things.

I dunno... I suspect that by this point there aren't actually that many Guard players still in the game who own tarantulas or rapiers. And even those who do would likely be tempted by redesigned plastic versions. I know I would*.


*I mean, yes, I'd be tempted. Just as the new Commissar reminded me that I really wanted the Sevarina Raine model. And then I went and checked the price and decided I didn't really need it after all. But still... new, plastic Rapiers would be nice to look at and not buy.

That and a weapon that has been in the setting since RT, and is currently only available through the Fw Death Korps, the Thudd Gun. Outside of the Earthshaker/Medusa it is probably the most iconic Guard artillery piece. I'd already have a battery myself if they weren't 46$ a pop without crew, which is just 3 dudes for 27.50$.

Most probably know/realise this already, but the Cadians are the same CAD design as the Krieg veterans, The leg poses/stances are exactly the same, and I'm fairly sure they are the same arms till it get to the cuffs of the uniform and then the hands. Certain weapons are exactly the same pose/stance such as the plasma gunner.

EDIT: Not completely the same, they don't have the kneeling poses, but mostly the same. To be fair, I've got 50x of the new Krieg vets painted, and you can't really tell there's some double or tripled up poses in there with some basic changes, such as accessories and different bases.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

The old kit had five leg poses, the torsos looked stupid if rotated more than a micron, and the clumpy rifles waving in odd directions is the only real choice. This kit seems like a flat upgrade for variety.

This. The only element of customisation the new models will lack is the possibility of turning the torso a tiny bit, but as there will actually be more different bodies, you will get more variety and the poses actually look natural. I'm sure you can freely put any arms on any body. The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous.

 godardc wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:
I do notice, that in style this moves Cadia away from Cold War area NATO troops and more towards US in Korea/Vietnam in gear.

What do you mean ? The US army is literally a NATO army and the Korean and Vietnam wars were part of the Cold War

He is thinking about Just Cause/Gulf War vs Korea/WW2. They do have a kind of Pentomic Army feel to them on a very strong WW2 basis.

 Crimson wrote:
The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous

with a lot of models, small changes on each make a big difference than 100% identical ones, with the big problem here being that only 4 legs are useful in a troop as the 2 running/dynamic ones will always stand out, specially if there is more than 1 unit

but hey, paying a premium price and than being happy with "good enough" as there is no real advantage over other companies metal/resin models (not even the price)

Hard to know how these will be cut on the sprue, so it's a bit of early days to say they are monoposed.

If you have 2 different builds per model on a box of 10 thats 20 different enough poses. Its a lot of 'ifs' at this point because arms may be glued to torsos, or torso legs one part only etc etc...

Swarm like armies do struggle a bit with the model spam so any individuality on models will stand out a lot.
The design problem here is that theres limited space on a sprue to make 30 or 40 different minis.

More than the poses here IMO the proportions have changed... and not only to a more modern/updated look... they suffer the same blandness, common on 3D assets, seen in sisters. They are more serious now and somewhat more boring. GW needs to be careful here when it comes to human proportions since they may be compromising 40k character towards a more "realistic" feel which looks awful in these scales.

Not human, realistic or 40k but that happened to the new kruelboys in AoS and personally it failed the mark by 100%.

 AtoMaki wrote:
...the Bombast gunner guy must have Mars-grade adamantine balls to sit right behind an obviously not recoilless high-calibre cannon.

I guess it uses the same space-folding technology as Leman Russ main guns, which would seem to recoil through the commander's torso.

I like how the new Cadians a re a bit less "modern" than the old ones. They're scifi, but have more of a world wars vibe than the old plastics.

I also think this makes them easier to adapt for other regiments. Headswaps would produce passable Praetorians or Steel Legion, etc. (And Krieg plastics with alternate heads would make good Valhallans.)

I really hope that GW will make some upgrade sprues with different heads.

this is because the LRBT main gun is a Gaus Gun, hence the large gun for a rather small projectile and there is no recoil or other things

 insaniak wrote:

 RustyNumber wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'

No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"

My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options. Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.

YMMV, obviously.



Edit - and having said that, while the multi-missile launcher thing is ugly, I do like the cannon.

And no, I'm not entirely sure why 'bigger lascannon' is bad, but 'baby earthshaker' is good...

Something to consider in this regard is that GW these days wants armies to have designs of their own to strengthen faction identity. Where once upon a time Imperial tech was widely shared among its factions and justified with the STC fluff, not the least because GW had more limited production capacity then, they have largely moved away from that with only few relics remaining. Back in the day Mechanicus would have utilized Rhinos and Land Raiders just fine, but in modern times they didn't get to have those and first got some harebrained fluff to justify the absence of transports in the army and later got their own designs.

It's best to look at the field artillery the same way. Though only made by Forge World after 2nd ed, Tarantulas adopted the look of Marine heavy bolters rather than Guard ones. The Rapier is most associated with Horus Heresy, and thus Marines, in my experience. The Thudd Gun got a modern reimagining as the Thunderfire Cannon. I'd be willing to say that the classic Imperial artillery pieces aren't Imperial anymore in GW's eyes, but tied to Space Marines now, warranting new designs for Imperial Guard.

If you think of it like that, it's not even surprising that the artillery pieces aren't out there sci-fi designs but reasonably reminiscent of WW2 multiple missile launchers, howitzers and anti tank guns to go with the more WW2 feel a lot of Imperial Guard has.

Does anyone remember whether they said anything about special weapons in Cadian infantry squads? Because the army set picture shows the squads with two special weapons. So they get that instead of special and heavy?

 Crimson wrote:
Does anyone remember whether they said anything about special weapons in Cadian infantry squads? Because the army set picture shows the squads with two special weapons. So they get that instead of special and heavy?

Yes - basic Infantry Squads get a special & heavy, while Cadian Shock Troops get multiple special.

Now the next question is really how much the new kits will cost.

Box set will probably be like 210USD, I think that is what they have been going for lately, which man, bit too expensive for what it is to me without some steep discount. I dunno, I guess I'd rather it without the codex and cheaper, or with more models instead.

And he, based on Krieg, they might be asking 60USD for 10 of these guys. Again, personally, at that price I might stomach a box of 20, but we know that won't happen.

Long story short, to me at least even if the models are nice, this is probably dead on arrival.

I might have to bite the bullet and buy 1 box of the new Kasrkin when they come out however, to give a little glamour and pizaz to the metals I've got laying around...

60 usd for 10 makes me sick

 kodos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The complaints (as usual) are completely ridiculous

with a lot of models, small changes on each make a big difference than 100% identical ones, with the big problem here being that only 4 legs are useful in a troop as the 2 running/dynamic ones will always stand out, specially if there is more than 1 unit

but hey, paying a premium price and than being happy with "good enough" as there is no real advantage over other companies metal/resin models (not even the price)

You are talking to guy to whom gw can do no wrong and all is perfect and anybody saying otherwise is wrong.

tneva82 wrote:

You are talking to guy to whom gw can do no wrong and all is perfect and anybody saying otherwise is wrong.

I've criticised them a lot. I'm just tired of all the absurd generated grievances. Like this nonsensical idea that models without waistjoint are "monopose". No one thought that skitarii or GS cultists were "monopose" when they were first released, but once the primaris used similar construction it was suddenly declared to be an anathema.

 Geifer wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 RustyNumber wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

And the heavier heavy weapons... In a universe that gave us tarantulas, thudd guns, and mole mortars, they said 'Hey, what if we gave them a slightly larger lascannon!'

No different to flamer/plasma guns having heavy versions. IRL is often just "cannon" and "larger cannon". If anything it was a bit stupid that IG had a man portable lascannon, the idea of them having a less complex and larger one needing a gun carriage is okay with me. I think you just have to accept the long establish fact GW would rather say ER HEY IT'S A NEW TYPE OF SPACE MARINE/BOLTER/WEAPON instead of just being happy with replacing stuff. "Hey here's new true scale marines" or "Hey lascannons are now actually heavy-heavy weapons"

My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options. Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.

YMMV, obviously.



Edit - and having said that, while the multi-missile launcher thing is ugly, I do like the cannon.

And no, I'm not entirely sure why 'bigger lascannon' is bad, but 'baby earthshaker' is good...

Something to consider in this regard is that GW these days wants armies to have designs of their own to strengthen faction identity. Where once upon a time Imperial tech was widely shared among its factions and justified with the STC fluff, not the least because GW had more limited production capacity then, they have largely moved away from that with only few relics remaining. Back in the day Mechanicus would have utilized Rhinos and Land Raiders just fine, but in modern times they didn't get to have those and first got some harebrained fluff to justify the absence of transports in the army and later got their own designs.

It's best to look at the field artillery the same way. Though only made by Forge World after 2nd ed, Tarantulas adopted the look of Marine heavy bolters rather than Guard ones. The Rapier is most associated with Horus Heresy, and thus Marines, in my experience. The Thudd Gun got a modern reimagining as the Thunderfire Cannon. I'd be willing to say that the classic Imperial artillery pieces aren't Imperial anymore in GW's eyes, but tied to Space Marines now, warranting new designs for Imperial Guard.

If you think of it like that, it's not even surprising that the artillery pieces aren't out there sci-fi designs but reasonably reminiscent of WW2 multiple missile launchers, howitzers and anti tank guns to go with the more WW2 feel a lot of Imperial Guard has.

Most iconic piece of artillery for guard to my eyes is the kreig earthshaker. Just looks perfect. Wish they would bring that to plastic


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Hard to know how these will be cut on the sprue, so it's a bit of early days to say they are monoposed.

If you have 2 different builds per model on a box of 10 thats 20 different enough poses. Its a lot of 'ifs' at this point because arms may be glued to torsos, or torso legs one part only etc etc...

Swarm like armies do struggle a bit with the model spam so any individuality on models will stand out a lot.
The design problem here is that theres limited space on a sprue to make 30 or 40 different minis.

More than the poses here IMO the proportions have changed... and not only to a more modern/updated look... they suffer the same blandness, common on 3D assets, seen in sisters. They are more serious now and somewhat more boring. GW needs to be careful here when it comes to human proportions since they may be compromising 40k character towards a more "realistic" feel which looks awful in these scales.

Not human, realistic or 40k but that happened to the new kruelboys in AoS and personally it failed the mark by 100%.

Gota disagree here. I prefer more serious looks and I wish chaos especially would move twords that instead of dinobots give us some truly horrific stuff. I mean what looks better possesed or gal vorbak? To my eyes gal vorbak every time.

 insaniak wrote:
My point was more that they already have established support weapons in the setting, and they opted to create a new type of lascannon instead of giving us any of those much more interesting and pre-existing options

Dude, this is literally how real world armies work. 60 mm mortar on company level, 81 mm mortar on battalion level, 120 mm on regiment/brigade level. Ditto with guns, anti-tank missiles, artillery, machine guns, and other support weapon systems, light ones are assigned to platoons (HWT in 40K parliance) while heavier versions (what we're getting now) are deployed with higher level units to provide support where needed. I really don't get complains Guard finally is having that gap filled. Oh no, GW decided to make IG closer to actual, real military, the game is ruined!

Just giving them access to lascannon-equipped tarantulas, or rapier laser destroyers would have been more interesting than 'bigger lascannon'.

You mean technologically advanced, techmarine-required (or, in laser destroyer, outright relic) weapons that Imperium barely manages to supply for Space Marines? The ones that don't fit the Guard fluff, theme, or common sense at all? What? How that would be in any way, shape or form better?

JWBS wrote:
I too wish that they were multipose, like the old Cadians, and indeed all kits of yesteryear.

Ah, yes, ""all"" MuLtiPoSe kits of yesteryear, just look at the variation here:

 kurhanik wrote:
For example, the Scion Plasmagun is held in a manner that you cannot pose the model actually shooting it, and the default setup is that they are holding the gun at an angle with one arm while pointing with the other. You can fix things up a bit by having the model point up, down, or forwards, or putting a different arm on it (say a pistol or the like), but in the end it still looks kind of silly having a full unit with 4 plasmagunners all casually hoisting their gun weirdly and pointing.

Shh, don't tell the MuLtiPoSe crowd that multipart MuLtiPoSe plasma scion is one of the worst monopose offenders (and nobody show them Dark/Blood Angel terminators, or their heads might explode!). That would be like clubbing a seal with facts. Pure animal cruelty

Really, the new ""monopose"" SM/IG produce way more varied poses and miniatures with alt builds than any MuLtiPoSe kit ever could. I especially like whining about legs, when these actually connect to the torso in organic, fluid way (not to mention don't lack half of the spine like most MuLtiPoSe kits) and old boxes mostly contained nearly identical leg sets that looked comical if you didn't glue them to torso in a single, very precise way that produced clones looking nowhere near as good as new bodies.

Really, new Primaris kits (that glue very precisely into natural, very nice mini but can also be easily converted if you cut small tab revealing socket below) are best of both worlds. After building 10 of old supposedly MuLtiPoSe terminators mixed with DA bits (activity that should be mandatory for everyone claiming old models could produce any varied/good poses or were easy to convert) I have no idea how anyone can want to go back to old, gak ways of doing stuff...

 Irbis wrote:

Dude, this is literally how real world armies work.

Well, real-world armies don't fight 2-meters tall muscle-bound walking mushrooms and don't have to worry about the implications of orbital deployment and effective directed energy weapons either. If you catch my drift.

 godardc wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:
I do notice, that in style this moves Cadia away from Cold War area NATO troops and more towards US in Korea/Vietnam in gear.

What do you mean ? The US army is literally a NATO army and the Korean and Vietnam wars were part of the Cold War

You're right, I should have been more specific. I meant 80-90's NATO, while with oversized assualt rifles. As opposed to 50s-70s, where you had a mix of assault and carbine rifles. As well as a generally less bulky look on the soldiers. Also the helmet reminds me more of the M1 and not the PASGT (I had to look these words up)

In addition to tripod-mounted heavy weapons, Astra Militarum regiments have begun wheeling larger artillery pieces to the front lines. Equipped with large-bore cannons, multi-missile launchers, or heavy, overcharged lascannons, Field Ordnance Batteries are the most powerful man-portable assets available.

So I'm guessing each gun in the battery you take also requires you to take a squad of Ogryn. Because it'll probably take an entire squad each to make those things "man-portable".

Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.

Unfortunatly I'm not a big fan of the ordnance thingies. When I heard from them I was looking forward to something like that but they do look incredibly heavy. Maybe it's something you have to look at some dozen times before you start to like it...

Bob Lorgar wrote:

In addition to tripod-mounted heavy weapons, Astra Militarum regiments have begun wheeling larger artillery pieces to the front lines. Equipped with large-bore cannons, multi-missile launchers, or heavy, overcharged lascannons, Field Ordnance Batteries are the most powerful man-portable assets available.

So I'm guessing each gun in the battery you take also requires you to take a squad of Ogryn. Because it'll probably take an entire squad each to make those things "man-portable".

They are seemingly based on the WW2 M1 carriage, and it is actually legit man-portable for short distances - on the pic you see the carriage with a 76mm AT gun being pulled away by 4 guys from its transport truck.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.

It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.

It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?

Personally, I love everything about these new Cadians. I do wish they all had gloved hands though.

Hey maybe they bring Centaurs back? I can only dream....

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.

It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.

It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?

Personally, I love everything about these new Cadians. I do wish they all had gloved hands though.

I understand the complaint. It's a change and like any change there will be folks love it, those who don't, and those (like myself) who don't feel strongly one way or the other. Overall, I do like the new models and, as someone who plays via TTS, I might have to try to modify some of the models to adopt some of the features I like (such as the longer jackets).

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Personally I think the Cadians look nice, although the kneecaps... do look a bit weird.

It's so weird to me that this is a complaint. Not trying to single you out specifically Pyro, just you're the most recent one to voice it.

It's an incredibly common feature in a lot of tactical uniforms here in the US...but maybe that's why it feels so weird to me as a complaint, since it's relatively commonplace to see?

No, the problem is that it is not how kneepads work. They should stick to the wearer's knee and not just hang from the pants, that's their whole point. Even modern integrated kneepads have special fixing bands to keep the kneepads over the knee - you can see them on this pic - those tiny things on the new Cadians just look silly by comparison.