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With human stats an IG officers can't got toe-toe with even mediocre enemy units
I wouldn't be necessarily against it if they could. In fact, if the Castellan's description is any measure, then this might be a thing already in the new codex.
Command Squads getting to spam Specials was always stupid. They were meant to be a COMMAND SQUAD. There literally was Special Weapon Squads that should have been fulfilling that role of spammed Specials...but nope, they let you keep doing it in Command Squads.
No wonder they felt fine cutting special weapon squads.
GW design philosophy has always been authority=ass kicking. Chapter Masters don't sit in orbit plotting strategy.
Sure, but they also aren't at every single battle ever accompanied by the entirety of the First Company outfitted in Terminator Armor.
With human stats an IG officers can't got toe-toe with even mediocre enemy units, but a command squad with 4 special weapons (or 1 heavy and 2 specials) is an effective unit.
You know what's even more effective? A radio uplink to your Basilisks, binoculars, and a map. Or your officer/sergeant wielding a special weapon themselves(which is, I might add, something I've long argued for on Guard).
But hey, it's not like there was ever a time where, say, that whole "Command Platoon" thing featured Special Weapon Squads and Heavy Weapon Squads right? Right?!
Realistic? LOL, it's 40k.
Where did I say anything about realism?
From a simple balance perspective, it was stupid. Command Squads should not have been competing with Special Weapon Squads(WHICH WERE IN COMMAND PLATOONS!). It's the same reason we saw Conscript+Commissar+Cheap Officer in the early Index days rather than Infantry Squads: number-crunchers will always go for whatever averages out the "best".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/28 16:14:55
Gadzilla666 wrote: And for the 1,745th time, it was stupid and unfair when they did it to Skitarii, and it's the same now, and will continue to be so every single time that they do it.
Except as I literally just explained, it isn't the same thing. But you keep thinking otherwise I guess?
Command Squads getting to spam Specials was always stupid. They were meant to be a COMMAND SQUAD. There literally was Special Weapon Squads that should have been fulfilling that role of spammed Specials...but nope, they let you keep doing it in Command Squads.
No wonder they felt fine cutting special weapon squads.
GW took special weapon squads out of the game because I took special weapons in my command squads? Huh, ok.
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Wellll.....1: You "literally just explaining it" in an edit that you did while I was "literally" typing the post you quoted. And 2: Allowing the guys helping lead your army/protecting your army's leader to get the "good stuff" isn't "stupid". Those guys should have their pick of equipment. The "stupid" thing was making Command Squads a unit that was separate from said leader, instead of making them an integrated squad with them.
This has been a problem for ages. It didn't magically start being an issue with 8th and Command Squads being split off. It became exacerbated by that certainly, but even when there were Special Weapon Squads in full effect as part of a Command Platoon (so not using up any slots), people didn't seem thrilled by them.
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ph34r wrote: GW took special weapon squads out of the game because I took special weapons in my command squads? Huh, ok.
Yup, it's all your fault.
I'm sure there are zero tournament lists(the thing they're more likely to look at) that take Command Squads(Scion and Regiment flavored) decked out with 4x Plasma Guns.
But misrepresent what I'm saying all you'd like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/28 16:22:21
Kanluwen wrote: I'm sure there are zero tournament lists(the thing they're more likely to look at) that take Command Squads(Scion and Regiment flavored) decked out with 4x Plasma Guns.
What is it with you and your obsession with plasma guns?
Kanluwen wrote: This has been a problem for ages. It didn't magically start being an issue with 8th and Command Squads being split off. It became exacerbated by that certainly, but even when there were Special Weapon Squads in full effect as part of a Command Platoon (so not using up any slots), people didn't seem thrilled by them..
I always ran platoons with command squads when I played and my command squads always had banner, vox, & medic plus one veteran. I was floored when my opponent's command squad had 4 heavy flamers in it! I didn't occur to me to do that, but it still doesn't appeal to me.
But I wish my anti-personnel infanrty squads could still take 2 flamers and my anti-armor infantry squads could still take 2 meltas. I don't think that's the same thing as 4 plasmas in a squad that's supposed to be commander & support.
Kanluwen wrote: Sure, but they also aren't at every single battle ever accompanied by the entirety of the First Company outfitted in Terminator Armor.
That matters exactly zilch.
What matters is what people play with. And people play with captains and chapter masters all the time, and people play with full terminator armies all the time.
So why can't command squads play with the big boys, again?
Or, if we go the "command squads should not be special weapons squads"... ok. Give me the special weapons squad, then.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/28 16:51:56
The two psykers (Primaris and Wyrdvane) are completely gone from the US webstore. I had the Wyrdvane in my cart and when I went to it today it was unavailible and is cannot be searched or found on it's page.
Any rumors for an update to them, or their addition to the Rotation?
Somehow strange how we went from Command Squads and special weapons Squads competing for "who brings special weapons the best way?" to having neither option for bringing for example a sniper squad. Looks a bit like overcompensation.
I personally always imagined the 4x Plasma Command Squad as "the elite kill squad that Captain Whatshisname requisitioned specifically for this purpose". So Command Squad in name and you could get only one per officer because they are rare, but lore wise just a bunch of the best plasma/melta/whatever gunners the regiment could find, stuck together to kill some high value target. At least for me it made sense (even though I build my own kind of like KidCthulhu with regimental standard, medic, sometimes a vox and the other just with a lasgun).
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ProfSrlojohn wrote: The two psykers (Primaris and Wyrdvane) are completely gone from the US webstore. I had the Wyrdvane in my cart and when I went to it today it was unavailible and is cannot be searched or found on it's page.
Any rumors for an update to them, or their addition to the Rotation?
I haven't heard anything, but it gives me a sad if that's the case
Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads, it wasn’t for fluff reasons at all. It was entirely for power reasons. Don’t try and pretend it wasn’t!
Not taking sides, I’m not in favour of losing options like the new GW way, but at least argue in good faith. You loaded up on plasma Guns because the command vets had BS 3+ and then tried to justify it or stuffed 4 heavy flamers in because it was powerful not because you captain liked starting fires.
Andykp wrote: Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads, it wasn’t for fluff reasons at all. It was entirely for power reasons. Don’t try and pretend it wasn’t!
Hey now, I used to take 4 snipers (or 3 snipers and a medic) pretty regularly.
Andykp wrote: Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads, it wasn’t for fluff reasons at all. It was entirely for power reasons. Don’t try and pretend it wasn’t!
Not taking sides, I’m not in favour of losing options like the new GW way, but at least argue in good faith. You loaded up on plasma Guns because the command vets had BS 3+ and then tried to justify it or stuffed 4 heavy flamers in because it was powerful not because you captain liked starting fires.
Just because it's a powerful option doesn't mean it's inherently unfluffy.
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@ Andykp: if this was in part directed towards me: As I said, I don't have a single squad equiped that way, but 4 with standard, medic, vox and all lasguns or laspistol + CC weapon.
I still think the 4 x the same special weapon had various fluff explanations, regardless of being really efficient powerwise. I personally (feel free to disagree) find a commander accompanied by an elite kill team with the best weapons the regiment can muster pretty fluffy and if you build such a team, 4 x sniper or 4 x melta or whatever looks much more sensible than mixing and matching in between.
Just because something was obviously the best option to do a specific thing (like spamming cheap plasma), it does not automatically mean that it is unfluffy
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Its been the standard since... 2nd? 3rd?
The time to complain about fluffyness was nearly 30 years ago- seems completely irrelevant to the codex at hand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/28 18:23:50
Haven't been following the rumours too closely. Is the suggestion of no double special weapons only for Command Squad and Scions? Or normal Cadian squads as well? I know the later are losing Heavy Weapons for a second Special.
Andykp wrote: Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads, it wasn’t for fluff reasons at all. It was entirely for power reasons. Don’t try and pretend it wasn’t!
Not taking sides, I’m not in favour of losing options like the new GW way, but at least argue in good faith. You loaded up on plasma Guns because the command vets had BS 3+ and then tried to justify it or stuffed 4 heavy flamers in because it was powerful not because you captain liked starting fires.
And I love seeing people trying to justify the continuation of no model no rules/what's in the box as lovely fluff and balance improvements.
No SWS kit - no SWS datasheet.
No duplicate special weapons in units like command squads unless it is supplied in the unit's specific box.
It's GW's current policy for pushing out 3rd parties after losing the chapterhouse suit, it has nothing to do with making the game better for new players or long time fans.
Ppfffffftttt....... Guess I missed all of the leaks for the Guard Super Heavys. Just watched Auspex Tactic's video on them, and HOLY CRAP has gw pulled a "paradigm shift" on their opinion of just how durable a Super Heavy Tank should be since the start of 9th. Hey, anyone want to take bets on the chances of any of these buffs being retroactively applied to the Macharius variants and the Stormbade? How about odds?
BrookM wrote: Have the special weapon restrictions on the Kasrkin squad been leaked yet? Got my Shadow-something box today and want to build the squad for regular 40k games.
I'd wait for the Codex. The Kill Team have some more punch then you'd have in the regular squad, so it's probably going to be on par with a 10 man squad and 2 or 3 special weapons. I haven't seen heavy weapons options for them, just yet.
That's kinda what I'm waiting for myself.
List is located here in the discussion. He's discussed them at length, but in comparison for 40K, There's something missing in a Squad Based weapons load out, such as everyone having a Hot Shot Lasgun, or Volcano Rifles, or some other wicky split they come up with a Straight Leg Kasrikan squad. From what I've seen, You'll have a decision point on the Special Weapons, but other then that, Old guys had the ubiquitous Hotshot gun since the beginning, and then the evolution of them gave the Kaskrin's the added bonus of three special weapons, and the Sergeant being a strapping young lad with an additional Plasma Pistol/ Power Sword combo if you picked it.
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Gadzilla666 wrote: Ppfffffftttt....... Guess I missed all of the leaks for the Guard Super Heavys. Just watched Auspex Tactic's video on them, and HOLY CRAP has gw pulled a "paradigm shift" on their opinion of just how durable a Super Heavy Tank should be since the start of 9th. Hey, anyone want to take bets on the chances of any of these buffs being retroactively applied to the Macharius variants and the Stormbade? How about odds?
I'll just use my Macharius as a count-as Dorn.
Finally some good rules for my favorite tank and less money for GW. I see that as a win-win.
Andykp wrote: Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads
Being able to take or not being able to take 4 special weapons in a command squad isn't in question though. You can still take 4 special weapons in a command squad. You just can't take more than one of any one special weapon. That's the point of contention. Did you miss that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/29 01:26:29
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ppfffffftttt....... Guess I missed all of the leaks for the Guard Super Heavys. Just watched Auspex Tactic's video on them, and HOLY CRAP has gw pulled a "paradigm shift" on their opinion of just how durable a Super Heavy Tank should be since the start of 9th. Hey, anyone want to take bets on the chances of any of these buffs being retroactively applied to the Macharius variants and the Stormbade? How about odds?
I'll just use my Macharius as a count-as Dorn.
Finally some good rules for my favorite tank and less money for GW. I see that as a win-win.
Andykp wrote: Love people trying to use fluff to justify taking 4 special weapons in command squads, it wasn’t for fluff reasons at all. It was entirely for power reasons. Don’t try and pretend it wasn’t!
Hey now, I used to take 4 snipers (or 3 snipers and a medic) pretty regularly.
I had a Catachan Lt. (metal) I converted with a feathered pimp-hat that lead a group of 4 grenade launcher girls. Effective, sorta. funny? Heck yeah.
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