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 RustyNumber wrote:
Can I ask what the rationale is behind buying two expensive kits (where you don't seem to want the actual unit) in an age where 3D prints are ubiquitous, and very affordable even if you have to commission the print. (That being said, a 5 minute search has only turned up a free file of a wrecked imperial knight base piece, nothing chaos specific.)

Because some people want the actual kit, not someone else's interpretation or a "knock off" of the kit.

It's why I make the distinction between the kit, a recast, and a 3D print.

The actual kit is like the Mona Lisa. It's the genuine article.
A recast is like a print of the Mona Lisa. It's not the original, but it's still the Mona Lisa.
A 3D print is someone drawing their own version of the Mona Lisa. It might be close - very close in fact - but it's never going to be the real thing, or even a recast of the real thing.

Unless it's a full proper 3D scan, but then really that's just a recast via alternate steps.

Boosykes wrote:
This is a good point guard use numbers. Large numbers of disposable infantry and the big guns. Wtf am I gona do with a human on a horse with a sword.

I'm sure they will give him good stats but he just dosent fit in. If I want a tough bruiser in the guard I will use ogrin or tanks.


They are suposed to be regular dudes not horse riding zues throwing thunderbolts.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea of regular huma ns on mutant horses DKok style just not superhuman in the guard. That's realy not there style.

Coolest part of the guard is that they are regular dudes not super humans.

But this isn’t a regular due, he’s the top of the guard, the head honcho. He is going going to be super because he’s the leader of a billion sting army. If you like gritty every day dudes as guard, then what ever this model liked like he wouldn’t be your cup of tea.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not keen on this model, I like my guard same as you, which is why I don’t like special characters, especially in the guard.

I kind of get what they were going for here, especial with the fluff snippets, he’s the flamboyant quirky supreme leader. He stands out on purpose. So the horse and the sword and the colour choices make sense in that way, he’s like the British paratrooper officer with the sword on Normandy beach. But it’s not for me. With a good special character model I get the urge to buy the model just to build and paint it, it is so magnificent, like with ghaz, but if never play it. Not this one.

 Polonius wrote:
I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.

It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.

 Malika2 wrote:

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

Baseless paranoia?

 Fayric wrote:
I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.

That's not very 40k though. This guy leads the "drive me closer to I can hit them with my sword" faction, of course he's going to be on the battlefield in some ridiculously impractical manner. I'm just surprised he's not in a robot suit or leman russ.

 xttz wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

Baseless paranoia?

Definitely! Unless GW plans to update those kits, but for some reason I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

 Malika2 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.

It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

So first it was firstborn gets squatted, now it's IG?

Guess next it's falcons get squatted Then tyranid warriors etc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fayric wrote:
I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.

That would be RL logic GW logic the bigger the rank the more he fights.

Have leaks given his rules much yet?

tneva82 wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.

It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

So first it was firstborn gets squatted, now it's IG?

Guess next it's falcons get squatted Then tyranid warriors etc?

Unless those kits will one day be updated?

 Malika2 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.

It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.

Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?

If this is concern that the old vehicles have glorious edges instead of this new curvy heresy, Imperial Guard wouldn't be the first army to keep models on sale that are to a greater or (in this case very much) lesser extent outdated. Chaos Marine tanks still have an upgrade sprue from a time before the invention of time, and Noise Marines use upgrade bits made for the previous Chaos Marine sculpts that may or may not be compatible with the current models. And Guard itself still has those Catachans that were bad even at the time of release.

The Guard tanks got recut sprues only somewhat recently. They're about as safe as it gets.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Voss wrote:
The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.

To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.

Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.

But this guy looks like he stepped out of the Guard regimental art from 1990, or fits in with these guys:
https://www.chaosbunker.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40k_IGRogueTraderWD110.jpg

Voss wrote:

But this guy looks like he stepped out of the Guard regimental art from 1990, or fits in with these guys:

Yup. That's the RT-era weirdness I'm talking about. Now, one can argue that combining it with the WW2 aesthetic (Cadians, Rogal Dorn) does not make a comprehensive faction design despite shared design cues (clothing style, thick straps, smooth round surfaces), but GW apparently has a different idea.

I think the concept is fine, but the execution is aesthetically poor. Needs to be surrounded by servo skulls IMO (one with vox, one holding display screens of tactical info, one scribbling orders on a big scroll of paper, and a 4th with a gun or shield generator), maybe add a bionic eye and shoulder-mounted laud hailer, change the shape of the helmet crest to a more-typically imperial iron halo style, give the horse a tracheostomy rebreather and pistons on the legs to make the cybernetics a touch more obvious. Add power-blade studs to the sword, and go for a more Militarum style of blade like a basket-hilted sabre (this looks like a Sororitas weapon), and I think the model would look greatly improved. A mask on the helmet like roman cavalry would also have looked good, esp with a bionic eye and rebreather tubing feeding into it. Could add digital weapons and a tactical feed to one wrist too. He should look like he is leading a massive army group at the same time as leading glorious charges, but we only have the latter.

Voss wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

Voss wrote:
The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.

To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.

Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.

But this guy looks like he stepped out of the Guard regimental art from 1990, or fits in with these guys:
https://www.chaosbunker.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40k_IGRogueTraderWD110.jpg

There is a distinct possibility we will see a modernised version of those Rogue Trader guardsmen for Necromunda, which would make a good bodyguard for the Lord Solar.

Makes me think GW should have used the sprue budget they wasted on the Sentinel to make a squad of Guardsmen that resembles those old ones so you can have a few squads as personal elite guard to the Lord Solar. The rules writers seem to have had a similar idea with him making Scions Troops (if that's accurate, been I while since I read the rumors), but they don't really have the same style as him and and a new kit would have been by far the better choice.

 xttz wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.

That's not very 40k though. This guy leads the "drive me closer to I can hit them with my sword" faction, of course he's going to be on the battlefield in some ridiculously impractical manner. I'm just surprised he's not in a robot suit or leman russ.

Eh, I don't know. I think there would be something appropriately 40k about the supreme commander appearing on the battlefield and walking amongst his men as an angelic figure to inspire them to fight harder and to win at any cost . . . only for the entire thing to be nothing more than a projection.

To me at least, it would be rather grimdark for men to fight to grizzly deaths for a commander they believe is a living saint. They might even give their lives to protect him directly, throwing themselves in front of projectiles or atop grenades, knowing how important his life is and cherishing the fact that their commander has put his own life at risk to fight with them. And yet all the while the actual commander sits in the fortified bridge of a command ship, in orbit around an entirely different planet, while his men give their lives to protect an illusion.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/11/02/rogal-dorn-size-comparison-how-the-new-tank-matches-up-in-scale-and-rules/

I believe this all matches up with the playtest leaks?

I dislike the Dorn more now. There seems to be a gap behind the sponsons, which means no gunner sat in there? The turret is too tall in comparison to the other two which makes it feel like it's not wide enough.

I think that gap is a some sort of emblem or insignia, in front of the sponsons.

Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?

Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.

Yeah, but all Str8 now wounds on a 5+ (melta, plasma, missiles) and lascannons now wound on a 4+.

Seems fairly significant.

Dudeface wrote:
I dislike the Dorn more now. There seems to be a gap behind the sponsons, which means no gunner sat in there? The turret is too tall in comparison to the other two which makes it feel like it's not wide enough.

Some of that height comes from the gun shield. It protrudes over the turret top.

Voss wrote:
Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?

Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.

Lascannons, Meltas and Missile Launchers (and their Xenos equivalents), Valkyrie Missiles, Basilisk-Earthshakers... the list goes on and on will all feel the difference... So basically most Infantry and a lot of vehicle based anti tank?
I'm not aware of that many weapons with average 6 damage.

 Spreelock wrote:
I think that gap is a some sort of emblem or insignia, in front of the sponsons.

Look at the side-on view. Its the rounded bumpy bit at the front of the track unit that is painted off-white. The front-on view makes it look like part of the sponson, but I don't think it is.

I think the sponsons are less high, and a bit less long than even the Russ sponsons, so in my head, they wouldn't be directly operated by crew in the sponson. someone inside the hull leaning through the track-line? maybe, but my headcanon will have them as remotely operated, even if there are separate crew members inside the hull controlling them.

 Pyroalchi wrote:

Voss wrote:
Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?

Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.

Lascannons, Meltas and Missile Launchers (and their Xenos equivalents), Valkyrie Missiles, Basilisk-Earthshakers... the list goes on and on will all feel the difference... So basically most Infantry and a lot of vehicle based anti tank?

Yeah, all old imperial and chaos kit, that meltas aside, didn't get updated in 9th. Weird that.

I'm not aware of that many weapons with average 6 damage.

d6+2 (5.5) is basically the baseline damage profile for heavier weapons this edition, with a fair few things above that.

Baneblade sponsons are remotely operated by the third gunner, though they use auto-tracking, not that far-fetched that the Praetorian sponsons use a similar system.

I like the Dorn's size. It's pretty beefy compared to a Russ but not so large that it begins to rival the Baneblade.

I like this color scheme better than the stock green and black one, too:

Also a fun lil' promo bit.

What an absolutely terrible model. Looks like a bad conversion

 streetsamurai wrote:
What an absolutely terrible model. Looks like a bad conversion

Terrible, awful.

So what do we figure, $100? $120?

I'll take 2.

 Geifer wrote:
I like the Dorn's size. It's pretty beefy compared to a Russ but not so large that it begins to rival the Baneblade.

It seems to be a nice comfy land raider sized vehicle which the guard definitely had room for rather than a superfluous new airplane or something.

Is it confirmed to be a new design in the lore yet or another one of those things that have always been around that nobody mentioned before?

I like the tank.. without sponsons it is no wider then a leman russ with sponsons which makes it much easier to maneuver then I thought..

It’s a beefed up leman russ which itself is beefed up.. but it all depends on points and any special rules to see how good the tank will be..

Regardless it’s good and fits in thematically..

Now the lord solar guy he really needed a chariot and command squad.. honestly the gold and white paint scheme just doesn’t do it for me. I would have preferred a mechanical platform (tank, chariot, hover base)
with the option to upgrade with individual retinue models (astropath, officer of fleet, master of ordinance, crusader bodyguards).