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 AlexiusAxouchos wrote:
Hammer of the Emperor is gone.

But returns under a different name as a regimental doctrine that takes up the place of 2 doctrines.

So it's not gone.

It's still a terrible rule that should have never seen print, and the fact that it's now in the Codex is appalling.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So it's not gone.

It's still a terrible rule that should have never seen print, and the fact that it's now in the Codex is appalling.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Chances are, it started off in the codex, and they were so proud of their work that they pulled it out to use in the balance update.
Because the rules writers are bad at their jobs.

Well it's now replacing regimental traits(2 of them) so not just free bonus.

tneva82 wrote:
Well it's now replacing regimental traits(2 of them) so not just free bonus.

Free or not it's still a stupid rule from a design point of view. My only hope is that the opportunity cost of taking it means that hardly anyone ever does and we can all pretend it doesn't exist anymore.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well it's now replacing regimental traits(2 of them) so not just free bonus.

Free or not it's still a stupid rule from a design point of view. My only hope is that the opportunity cost of taking it means that hardly anyone ever does and we can all pretend it doesn't exist anymore.

It's still a hard sell to give up imo, it's a big positive boost for every unit in the book.

 AlexiusAxouchos wrote:
This just in from Mordian Glory on his Discord server:

Hammer of the Emperor is gone.


But returns under a different name as a regimental doctrine that takes up the place of 2 doctrines.
6s on the hit roll will still auto wound, but those also count as 6s for the wound roll, so essentially Snipers with bonuses for 6s on the wound roll will get them when Hammer of The Emperor procs.
Overall, MG feels that this will be less important as we get fewer # of attacks overall and that regimental doctrines are better.

Sorry for the dumb question but what does 6s to autowound mean? I thought 6 to wound always wounded in 9th? Does it bypass armor?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sorry for the dumb question but what does 6s to autowound mean? I thought 6 to wound always wounded in 9th? Does it bypass armor?

A 6 to hit automatically hits in 9th.

The guard rule is that a 6 to hit also automatically wounds instead of rolling normally, with saves/FNP/etc taken as normal.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 AlexiusAxouchos wrote:
This just in from Mordian Glory on his Discord server:

Hammer of the Emperor is gone.


But returns under a different name as a regimental doctrine that takes up the place of 2 doctrines.
6s on the hit roll will still auto wound, but those also count as 6s for the wound roll, so essentially Snipers with bonuses for 6s on the wound roll will get them when Hammer of The Emperor procs.
Overall, MG feels that this will be less important as we get fewer # of attacks overall and that regimental doctrines are better.

Sorry for the dumb question but what does 6s to autowound mean? I thought 6 to wound always wounded in 9th? Does it bypass armor?

I believe it's actually if you roll a 6 to hit then you auto-wound. So pretty nasty considering how many shots are flying about....

Edit: ninja'd, lol.

Gotcha it's 6s to hit... Oh that is nice.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

If Black Library novels were written with the same amount of talent the codexes are

To be honest I wouldn't put codex writing that low. It is bad, but not Black Library level of bad.

Interesting. I thought at least some of them were well regarded. Not by me, good heavens no, but by people otherwise considered sane and trustworthy.

One should note that the higher average cost of "new" IG as well as LR Punisher no longer having 40shots indirectly reduces the absurd power of that ability.
Still not really one i like design wise ( just remember: its better than "hit roll of 6 change weapon Profile to S99"). It just breaks the immersion quite hard as there is just no connection to the lore/fluff

I'm disappointed that this terrible anti-immersive autowound rule remains. I'm glad that I have option to trade it for something else, though I suspect most trait combos won't actually be worth the trade and a lot of people will simply use the autowound rule. Also, does it stack with Cadian double hit rule, so that sixes to hit on Cadian lasguns cause two autowounds?

 Crimson wrote:
I'm disappointed that this terrible anti-immersive autowound rule remains. I'm glad that I have option to trade it for something else, though I suspect most trait combos won't actually be worth the trade and a lot of people will simply use the autowound rule. Also, does it stack with Cadian double hit rule, so that sixes to hit on Cadian lasguns cause two autowounds?

Exploding sixes does not activate any other rule, I'm quite sure it is in the main rulebook. So you would get two hits, but only one auto-wound

Apparently all the special weapon upgrades (including the Kasrkin Sniper Rifle) in Kasrkin and Scion units are free.

Unbelievable...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently all the special weapon upgrades (including the Kasrkin Sniper Rifle) in Kasrkin and Scion units are free.

Unbelievable...

Any pretence of effort in writing rules is out of the window.

If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

Aesthetics?

 Haighus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently all the special weapon upgrades (including the Kasrkin Sniper Rifle) in Kasrkin and Scion units are free.

Unbelievable...

Any pretence of effort in writing rules is out of the window.

balance is overrated anyways.

Also looks like the PL-ification is progressing, something many people claimed didn't happen and isn't happening.

If GL costs same as MG or PG it needs to be assault 2 minimum. Just can’t compete otherwise. The whole point of things like the M40 was rapid deployment of grenades, much faster than throwing them.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
If GL costs same as MG or PG it needs to be assault 2 minimum. Just can’t compete otherwise. The whole point of things like the M40 was rapid deployment of grenades, much faster than throwing them.

This solution has been sitting in front of GW for over a decade, and they simply refuse to adopt it. It's odd that flamers and meltaguns have gotten upward tweaks, while the humble grenade launcher has the same stats in had in 1998.

 Haighus wrote:
Any pretence of effort in writing rules is out of the window.

Yeah, because pretending flamers costing 1 point less than melta somehow matters, eh?

I honestly don't mind upgrades being free on throwaway cheap units where it doesn't change much, at least this removes the most annoying factor in list building (namely, where I spend 1 more/less point to 'optimize' list), and encourages experimentation (this might be a shock to 'glue badly looking 3d printed bit spam of whatever is 0.0001% more "efficient" and forget other weapons exist to WAAAC harder' brigade but both casual and fluffy players like to vary lists and try different loadouts) now that it takes little effort.

That is not to say upgrades should be free on everything, but if there is one place where it might work, it's special weapons of small squads, as their roles aren't as diverse as say heavy weapons and the change of output is negligible enough to not worry about a few points.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

Because now that they cost the same as other specials, changing your list takes zero time and fuss (and no psychological barrier of 'I am wasting x points now that my squad is cheaper') and you might take them against a list where they are worthwhile sidegrade?

Let's not pretend anyone took them when they were a handful of point less than alternatives. Sure, writers could go alternative route of buffing the GL until it's as strong as meltagun but I dunno how you would do that without largely copying stats of a melta making the choice even less meaningful.

Trying to argue that people weren't taking GL because they were only a little cheaper than a PG/melta but they will now because they cost the same, is a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see how it pays off.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently all the special weapon upgrades (including the Kasrkin Sniper Rifle) in Kasrkin and Scion units are free.

Unbelievable...

Any pretence of effort in writing rules is out of the window.

balance is overrated anyways.

Also looks like the PL-ification is progressing, something many people claimed didn't happen and isn't happening.

Oh it's happening, except when it isn't

The 40k rules team really needs a strong leader and a clear vision. I mean if they want to go to Power Levels and No Model No Rules then someone needs to be there to stick to it. Instead we get bizarre things like a new codex with rules for armies that were made in 1994 and have been OOP since around 2010...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
If GL costs same as MG or PG it needs to be assault 2 minimum. Just can’t compete otherwise. The whole point of things like the M40 was rapid deployment of grenades, much faster than throwing them.

This solution has been sitting in front of GW for over a decade, and they simply refuse to adopt it. It's odd that flamers and meltaguns have gotten upward tweaks, while the humble grenade launcher has the same stats in had in 1998.

What about offering indirect fire? It seems it would give the GL a unique niche other than 'the gun that ain't good at anything'.

 Irbis wrote:


Let's not pretend anyone took them when they were a handful of point less than alternatives. Sure, writers could go alternative route of buffing the GL until it's as strong as meltagun but I dunno how you would do that without largely copying stats of a melta making the choice even less meaningful.

Add pinning rules? Make it 30 inch range? enemies hit by it can't overwatch?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

What about offering indirect fire? It seems it would give the GL a unique niche other than 'the gun that ain't good at anything'.

Okay, I like this. Basically a mini assault mortar. Might be nice to have both of those in the same squad.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
What about offering indirect fire? It seems it would give the GL a unique niche other than 'the gun that ain't good at anything'.

that's the other thing I've played with, but in my head canon, the GL is the sort of "default" weapon a guard squad would have, and I'd rather give it more raw power than a more defined niche.

 Polonius wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
What about offering indirect fire? It seems it would give the GL a unique niche other than 'the gun that ain't good at anything'.

that's the other thing I've played with, but in my head canon, the GL is the sort of "default" weapon a guard squad would have, and I'd rather give it more raw power than a more defined niche.

I get the logic but one thing to keep in mind it that none of our tabletop armies are supposed to be the average. By definition any Marine or Eldar force is already super elite, so presumably any IG forces we put on the table are not minor garrisons or random patrols but are already the A-Team, the Howling Commandos, Easy Company, Green Berets etc.

So a GL or a flamer may well be the default weapon galaxy wide, but for Col Fury's hand-chosen elite force about to go into battle with the endless daemon hoards coming out of the rift... every last mother's son is going to get a plasma gun.

 Irbis wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

Because now that they cost the same as other specials, changing your list takes zero time and fuss (and no psychological barrier of 'I am wasting x points now that my squad is cheaper') and you might take them against a list where they are worthwhile sidegrade?

I wonder if you have ever responded to anybody without at least a touch of snark? You should try it sometime!

You were doing pretty well here until the rolling eyes emoji!

 Polonius wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
What about offering indirect fire? It seems it would give the GL a unique niche other than 'the gun that ain't good at anything'.

that's the other thing I've played with, but in my head canon, the GL is the sort of "default" weapon a guard squad would have, and I'd rather give it more raw power than a more defined niche.

The problem with that logic is that it's just launching grenades. Sticking them in the launcher would just increase range, not power. So a utility niche is where you have to start looking.

Personally I wouldn't be too upset about the auto-wound rule. This book will be outdated in less than a month, and will be trash bin material in five months when 10th comes out and resets the entire game...again.