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 Rihgu wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
Objectives are a 40mm base + 3" circle, so if you aim at the center of the objective there's 40mm around the edges an enemy unit can claim it while being safe from the blast.

This mixing of metric and imperial irritates me even more than the rules do.

Pick one!

I can't just convert 40mm to inches off the top of my head! Uhhh an objective zone is 4.5748" so there's 1.5748" around the outside of the blast zone an enemy unit can safely claim!

I thought objectives were from the center. The size of the marker was irrelevant.

I thought so to. In a sane world, they would be, but these aren't sane rules.

Eh, a standard size for an objective marker isn't a bad thing, and I'd actually argue from the base itself makes the most sense, but that's not a hill I NEED to die on

 Tastyfish wrote:

You pick a target point and if the enemy moves away from that so nothing is within 3", the Deathstrike can pick another target that goes off next turn.

Footage of a Deathstrike Missile in action:

https://youtu.be/g3rKwq-Zw_A?t=55

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
These all just feels disheartening. Both rule, fluff, and lore wise.

But don't you feel better now knowing that when Catachans go to war they "boast" 2 flamers?

I don't know Mr. Krabs... I don't know...

I am looking for information as to whether heavy weapon teams have changed.

All mentions so far are about new models, not any new rules, or confirmations of no change.

I imagine they'll be like most "Devastator" units, inconsistently immune to NM/NR because reasons.

Of course the beauty of the old kit - that being that the heavy weapons themselves were crew agnostic - will probably be a thing of the past with the new jig-saw puzzle sprues that GW does these days.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I imagine they'll be like most "Devastator" units, inconsistently immune to NM/NR because reasons.

Of course the beauty of the old kit - that being that the heavy weapons themselves were crew agnostic - will probably be a thing of the past with the new jig-saw puzzle sprues that GW does these days.

Agreed, and I’m sad for it. We’ll know soon, but it would be great if Heavy Weapons, Sentinels and Weapon Batteries each had the “Cadian” bits on a separate sprue, to make it easier to gauge if other regiments are coming.

 GiToRaZor wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Personally I wouldn't be too upset about the auto-wound rule. This book will be outdated in less than a month, and will be trash bin material in five months when 10th comes out and resets the entire game...again.

Like 9e made 8e books useless? What daemons played until short time then? What are ig playing atm?

No more like 7th, when overnight every codex was replaced by an Index, at least that is the rumor so far.

That's speculated a lot but nothing concrete rumours yet so claiming it's so is just stupid.

I can make lots of claim. Doesn't make it so though.

"10th will kill off primaris!"

I bet there will be primaris marines around.

GW hasn't historically done full resets all that often so odds are better it will be more like GW's usual old codexes work more-or-less edition change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rihgu wrote:
I thought so to. In a sane world, they would be, but these aren't sane rules.

Then for added fun GW sells objective markers on 50mm bases

 vipoid wrote:

Footage of a Deathstrike Missile in action:

https://youtu.be/g3rKwq-Zw_A?t=55

The Deathstrike really doesn't seem to belong in normal games, it'd make more sense as a bonus-VP-if-launched than as a weapon.

Then again used in Apoc with a suitable minimum range and explosive range of at least 12 inches would be awesome.

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

At that points cost, you would have to take 50 grenade launchers to replace one squad. I think people would take 1pt grenade launchers.

I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

Wild prediction- 10th launch box is Catachans vs Exodites.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

Seems like a pretty solid future Kill Team release. Perhaps that Catachans vs Nids rumour materialises in the next KT season, and gets released closer to the next Nids update.

 Haighus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

Wild prediction- 10th launch box is Catachans vs Exodites.

There's always marines in one and GW won't put imperium vs imperium so...No.

The Krieg rule says "an unmodified roll of 1-2 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making the attack may have" does that mean no rerolls to wound on a 1?

M.

tneva82 wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

Wild prediction- 10th launch box is Catachans vs Exodites.

There's always marines in one and GW won't put imperium vs imperium so...No.

It wasn't a serious suggestion

Could happen for an army/campaign box or kill team set. Would never happen for the edition starter.

 Miguelsan wrote:
The Krieg rule says "an unmodified roll of 1-2 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making the attack may have" does that mean no rerolls to wound on a 1?

M.

No. It just expands your usual 1 always fail. If it did there could be no reroll 1's because 1 always fails as per core rules.

 Haighus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remain shocked there isn't also a Catachan squad coming after all the new characters they've done for them.

Guess for 10th?

Wild prediction- 10th launch box is Catachans vs Exodites.

There's always marines in one and GW won't put imperium vs imperium so...No.

It wasn't a serious suggestion

Could happen for an army/campaign box or kill team set. Would never happen for the edition starter.

Almost certainly we’ll see Catachan models for Kill Team, hopefully with enough bits to make a Command Squad. Although the existing Command Squad is still fine.

 Miguelsan wrote:
The Krieg rule says "an unmodified roll of 1-2 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making the attack may have" does that mean no rerolls to wound on a 1?

M.

Maybe we can ask GW and they rule it the other way but currently it’s ruled as rerolls allowed…. However all those poison, 2+ Auto wound or +1 wound rolls won’t work… still reroll 1 to wound is dumb that it still works

 Haighus wrote:

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

At that points cost, you would have to take 50 grenade launchers to replace one squad. I think people would take 1pt grenade launchers.

The thing is, you still need a squad to carry them. And that's the main expense. It would also be weird (albeit fitting for the Guard) if some weapons cost more than the whole unit. A Grenade launcher squad would basically be 51 points while a barebones one would be 50. Few people would even pay that one point because it can also be used for other things. So you'd only take it if other weapons were either overpriced or not accessible. After all, if you're after damage a plasma gun will always be better than a grenade launcher unless you give it some kind of special niche.

But I think that that's a general issue with GW rules. There are so many units and options that basically are another option+1 or the like. So there will always be an optimal choice there and points can't make up for that.

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

You take grenade launchers when they are free and you have run out of models with any other special weapon.

In 8th plasma was pretty much universally better than melta, in 9th that changed. In theory the same could happen to grenade launchers and they get rebalanced at some point, but as no one uses them anyway and they are not widely available outside guard, it is not a priority.

 Insularum wrote:

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

You take grenade launchers when they are free and you have run out of models with any other special weapon.

In 8th plasma was pretty much universally better than melta, in 9th that changed. In theory the same could happen to grenade launchers and they get rebalanced at some point, but as no one uses them anyway and they are not widely available outside guard, it is not a priority.

Indeed. And if Grenade Launchers somehow get good, chances are that the other special weapons fall by the wayside again.

Can you lot take the grenade launcher talk elsewhere? Go start a thread in Proposed Rules or whatever.

 RustyNumber wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Footage of a Deathstrike Missile in action:

https://youtu.be/g3rKwq-Zw_A?t=55

The Deathstrike really doesn't seem to belong in normal games, it'd make more sense as a bonus-VP-if-launched than as a weapon.

Agreed. I think it has the same issue as Fliers in that, whilst it stands to reason that they would exist, the model just doesn't belong on the table.

It would make more sense if a Master of Ordnance could call in an airstrike or Deathstrike shot (either using CP or as a 1/game ability, like the Chapter Master's old Orbital Bombardment ability). However, you really shouldn't need the bomber or Deathstrike-launcher actually on the table. It should just be assumed that the fliers are in the area and pass over for a bombing run, or that the Deathstrike launcher is within range.

As it stands, the Deathstrike is the equivalent of the Nazis wheeling the V2 rocket all the way through France, across the channel, and into central London so they could fire it at... central London.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Can you lot take the grenade launcher talk elsewhere? Go start a thread in Proposed Rules or whatever.

No, because the conversation is relevant to the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insularum wrote:

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

You take grenade launchers when they are free and you have run out of models with any other special weapon.

In 8th plasma was pretty much universally better than melta, in 9th that changed. In theory the same could happen to grenade launchers and they get rebalanced at some point, but as no one uses them anyway and they are not widely available outside guard, it is not a priority.

Hence why GW needs to start looking at utility uses for those lower end weapons. If you gave them interesting effects, they'd get used.

That would require GW to actually attempt to write slightly deeper core rules though.

 Insularum wrote:

 Dolnikan wrote:

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:If the special weapons are all free why would anybody use grenade launchers?

No one will take them just like no one took them before because those few points just don't matter. The main expense is the squad and the grenade launcher just doesn't add anything to it. You either just want bodies, which is where you take nothing or you want to achieve a task. And then you take a weapon that fits that task. The grenade launcher just doesn't have a hint of a real role and hasn't had one for ages. You could make them one point and plasma and melta 30 and you still wouldn't see them taken except maybe if someone had a few barebones squads and 2 points left over somewhere.

You take grenade launchers when they are free and you have run out of models with any other special weapon.

In 8th plasma was pretty much universally better than melta, in 9th that changed. In theory the same could happen to grenade launchers and they get rebalanced at some point, but as no one uses them anyway and they are not widely available outside guard, it is not a priority.

Grenade launchers need a niche, every other special weapon has a niche. Plasma is elite, melta for tanks, sniper for characters, flamers for clearing groups. I think in order to have a reason to exist grenade launchers need something special. Maybe a smoke/flash grenade profile, or they can ignore LOS. Better yet have it cause some sort of "pinning" type of effect. As it stands they are terrible all around, at least back in the day they were cheap.

Kanluwen wrote:Can you lot take the grenade launcher talk elsewhere? Go start a thread in Proposed Rules or whatever.

If you'd like I can change the title of this thread to "Astra Militarum Rumors and Grenade Launcher hate Fest" so it's clearer.

vipoid wrote:

The Deathstrike really doesn't seem to belong in normal games, it'd make more sense as a bonus-VP-if-launched than as a weapon.

That would just be too logical.

Maybe make it a help your friend weapon? If launched you can target another table in the same gaming shop (or same county) and it has effects on that game?

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Grenade launchers need a niche, every other special weapon has a niche.

Their niche is - supposedly - that they can dip into every niche and perform just fine. Not as well as the dedicated special weapon of that niche, but they make up for that with versatility so you are never caught flat-footed when facing the wrong opponent. Good for a unit (like an objective camper) that can face a variety of enemy unit types.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

vipoid wrote:

The Deathstrike really doesn't seem to belong in normal games, it'd make more sense as a bonus-VP-if-launched than as a weapon.

That would just be too logical.

Maybe make it a help your friend weapon? If launched you can target another table in the same gaming shop (or same county) and it has effects on that game?

I recall hearing stories of Guard players launching Deathstrikes at tables in other stores (including one between the UK and US) back in 5e since Deathstrikes had "Range: Unlimited" in the 'dex. It sounded like an absolute riot, but the coordination might be a problem ,and I can't imagine other players would enjoy having to worry about an ICBM sniping their Daemon Prince when they're not even playing against an Imperium army (though international carpet-nuking would be a fething amazing way to troll a major tournament...).

 waefre_1 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

vipoid wrote:

The Deathstrike really doesn't seem to belong in normal games, it'd make more sense as a bonus-VP-if-launched than as a weapon.

That would just be too logical.

Maybe make it a help your friend weapon? If launched you can target another table in the same gaming shop (or same county) and it has effects on that game?

I recall hearing stories of Guard players launching Deathstrikes at tables in other stores (including one between the UK and US) back in 5e since Deathstrikes had "Range: Unlimited" in the 'dex. It sounded like an absolute riot, but the coordination might be a problem (and I can't imagine other players would enjoy having to worry about an ICBM sniping their Daemon Prince when they're not even playing against an Imperium army...)

IIRC, GW stores would coordinate that themselves for the Tanksgiving events.