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 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

When the Old World blew up I frantically bought all Dark Elf boxes which were still needed for my army. FOMO at it´s finest.

Ask yourself, if you really need the Cadians.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

I'm going to guess that when they sell out of their current stock they'll probably be gone for good, if not sooner. Pretty much the whole range new has been shown, I can't imagine the old range hanging around terribly long.

I managed to talk myself out of buying a StD start collecting after the StD regiment box was previewed. Wasn't too difficult, though I suppose there's still time for me to break.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

For the moment, Cadian Shock Troops are a different squad entry to the basic guardsmen, so I don't think they will get rid of the latter when the codex drops. Next edition, maybe? The old ork boyz are still around despite the crappy new ones.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

I'm going to guess that when they sell out of their current stock they'll probably be gone for good, if not sooner. Pretty much the whole range new has been shown, I can't imagine the old range hanging around terribly long.

Yeah, I don't expect we will see a repetition of the ork boys debacle. The new Cadians box looks much better, and actually useable, even if I'm not very enthused to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

For the moment, Cadian Shock Troops are a different squad entry to the basic guardsmen, so I don't think they will get rid of the latter when the codex drops. Next edition, maybe? The old ork boyz are still around despite the crappy new ones.

There are reasons for that, not the least the amount of backlash the new box got. I don't think that will be the case this time, even if it will certainly be more expensive.

 Albertorius wrote:


There are reasons for that, not the least the amount of backlash the new box got. I don't think that will be the case this time, even if it will certainly be more expensive.

Feedback had literally nothing to do with the decision to keep the old kit on sale. That box was given redesigned 9E style packaging, which would have been arranged long before the new Boyz kit was even publicly announced. It was always the plan to sell both kits.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Do we have any idea if GW will be withdrawing the current Cadians from sale once the new versions are released?

Just wondering if I need to buy some right now, ideally I'd prefer to wait because money is tight right now.

When the Old World blew up I frantically bought all Dark Elf boxes which were still needed for my army. FOMO at it´s finest.

Ask yourself, if you really need the Cadians.

FOMO is definitely driving me. I've got plenty of Cadians still unassembled in various stashes, but what if I need more? I'm still not sure which versions I prefer, which I'm sure sounds crazy to many people as the new versions are clearly more detailed. There's just something about the current Cadians. I won't miss the heads though.

So sure, I don't need to buy more, but I could say the same about any minis really

If your not opposed to buying used, keep in mind that the current kit has been in production for a long long time. There fore the secondary market will have lots of them for a long time, their secondary market price will likely see almost no increase as the supply is just to big and the new kit is nice enough new players are unlikely to be looking for the old ones.

Used cadians are already cheap and plentyful. Guessing there are many with hordes of them that might want to get rid of them and instead go for the better looking new ones.

Who knows anymore, GW is wildly inconsistent with what stays or goes. Plus they can drum up more panic purchases by keeping everyone in the dark all the time.

 Illumini wrote:
Used cadians are already cheap and plentyful. Guessing there are many with hordes of them that might want to get rid of them and instead go for the better looking new ones.

Better looking but as of now not as customizable.

Which was the point of going to plastic.

GW does not want people to be able to convert their figures anymore. At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

General Hobbs wrote:
At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

From the Goonhammer Daemon Prince review:

"[T]his model is just so damn intricate. ... in just how fiddly and tight the construction can be. His torso is a smattering of seemingly unrelated fleshy shapes that all fit around a hollow void and if you don’t wait the proper amount of time for glue to dry, the whole body can collapse in on itself as nearly happened with mine. It’s kind of like building an eggshell, fragile and hollow. Each limb is 2-3 parts before the hands and feet (often another 2-3 parts) and even the most seemingly simple part of the model can take a while just to clip, clean, and glue together. His head especially was a challenge, taking something like 6-7 often extremely small pieces just to assemble. Each of his heads has multiple pieces as well, and there’s something like 3 different tongues in the kit."

"[T]he bits are scattered across the sprues in a nonlinear fashion. You may need two adjacently numbered pieces for a hand or foot or something, only to have to hunt them down and find which sprue has which piece in the sequence – so bit 17 might be on sprue A, but 18 might be on sprue C. Searching for the specific bit I needed definitely contributed to the construction time on this miniature, as pieces are typically laid out next to each other on kits not quite so packed as this one."

I don't know why they do this. There have been models that I've given up on because my eyes aren't good enough to figure out what goes where (Spirit Hosts, Dark Apostle) and other minis that have made my blood boil in how nonsensical they are to build (hello Helbrute!).

I put together 3 EZ Build Agressors last weekend. They were great. This whole jigsaw puzzle design ethos of modern kits is really unnecessary, especially given how few options there are with construction.

What I don't get is the nonsensical numbering of parts on the sprues. I don't care if I have to glue part 37 to part 64, so long as I can find them on the sprues. I've been doing some Krieg lately and I swear half my time is spent staring at the sprues looking for the part I want.

Old men yell at sprues?

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

You won't know our pain until your eyes go bad and need a x3 glasses to read the damn number

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

You won't know our pain until your eyes go bad and need a x3 glasses to read the damn number

M.

My eyes went bad in the early 90's. I got a head start on that.

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

Yeah, sure, ridicule people with eye issues. Good job.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

From the Goonhammer Daemon Prince review:

"[T]his model is just so damn intricate. ... in just how fiddly and tight the construction can be. His torso is a smattering of seemingly unrelated fleshy shapes that all fit around a hollow void and if you don’t wait the proper amount of time for glue to dry, the whole body can collapse in on itself as nearly happened with mine. It’s kind of like building an eggshell, fragile and hollow. Each limb is 2-3 parts before the hands and feet (often another 2-3 parts) and even the most seemingly simple part of the model can take a while just to clip, clean, and glue together. His head especially was a challenge, taking something like 6-7 often extremely small pieces just to assemble. Each of his heads has multiple pieces as well, and there’s something like 3 different tongues in the kit."

"[T]he bits are scattered across the sprues in a nonlinear fashion. You may need two adjacently numbered pieces for a hand or foot or something, only to have to hunt them down and find which sprue has which piece in the sequence – so bit 17 might be on sprue A, but 18 might be on sprue C. Searching for the specific bit I needed definitely contributed to the construction time on this miniature, as pieces are typically laid out next to each other on kits not quite so packed as this one."

That's pretty accurate summary. I had to put the daemon prince aside because it was such a mess (and the pictures don't give much of a clue as to how to align the torso bits so they match)- mine _did_ collapse like an eggshell. The left leg on the tactical rock is also a bit fiddly- there isn't much of a join, just a soft shallow notch. The hands have nice big connectors though- almost as if they're from a different kit completely.

The horseshoe piece of armor that goes behind the skull kneepad was the worst (so far). So thin it split in half despite using clippers to remove it from the sprue.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

You won't know our pain until your eyes go bad and need a x3 glasses to read the damn number

M.

My eyes went bad in the early 90's. I got a head start on that.

I'll probably be legally blind without glasses in a few years with the way my eyes are going LOL

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

yes.


I have reached a point where I am fine wearing contacts except for seeing and reading up close. I use readers to do so.

I tried the opposite...glasses on to see far away and taking them off to see up close, but it doesn't work as well.

It is an issue playing too...reading rules etc at the table is a pain.

I should have listened to the nuns.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

axotl wrote:
Old men yell at sprues?

Yeah, sure, ridicule people with eye issues. Good job.

That, or mock your over-sensitivity, he's rather spoilt for choice.

Voss wrote:
That's pretty accurate summary. I had to put the daemon prince aside because it was such a mess (and the pictures don't give much of a clue as to how to align the torso bits so they match)- mine _did_ collapse like an eggshell. The left leg on the tactical rock is also a bit fiddly- there isn't much of a join, just a soft shallow notch. The hands have nice big connectors though- almost as if they're from a different kit completely.

The horseshoe piece of armor that goes behind the skull kneepad was the worst (so far). So thin it split in half despite using clippers to remove it from the sprue.

Cool...

So what you're saying is that I shouldn't buy a third one?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
That's pretty accurate summary. I had to put the daemon prince aside because it was such a mess (and the pictures don't give much of a clue as to how to align the torso bits so they match)- mine _did_ collapse like an eggshell. The left leg on the tactical rock is also a bit fiddly- there isn't much of a join, just a soft shallow notch. The hands have nice big connectors though- almost as if they're from a different kit completely.

The horseshoe piece of armor that goes behind the skull kneepad was the worst (so far). So thin it split in half despite using clippers to remove it from the sprue.

Cool...

So what you're saying is that I shouldn't buy a third one?

Usually by the third kit you have figured out all the assembly nonsense. I offer to build new kits for a friend. He doesn't like building models, and I can work out the kinks before building my own.

and I usually don't need any instructions at all because 99% of model kits can be figured out by looking at the sprues in advance, especially those without any options
yet some people struggle to glue wheels on a truck because it is not clear enough that those need to get there

so just because I can do it and have no problems does not mean everyone else can do it as well

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This whole jigsaw puzzle design ethos of modern kits is really unnecessary, especially given how few options there are with construction.

and I thought this is the big advantage GW has over all other manufacturers out there and the main reason why people are happy to pay the higher price
because they get superior shapes that are easier to build with clear instructions (at least this is what people tell you on the internet)

by this time I think most people who complain about how some 3rd party models were too complicated to assembly because Arm "A" fit only on Weapon "A" which is next to it on the sprue and therefore recommend GW models because they are better in every aspect and much easier to work with have never ever worked with a modern GW sprue but just seen the promo pics and thought "look better than what I have done so must be a superior product"

I have met people who struggled with easy to build kits without any optional parts because they could not figure out that the left hand gets on the left arm, I just cannot imagine that those would ever get a kit like the new Prince done

General Hobbs wrote:
GW does not want people to be able to convert their figures anymore. At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

Technicals. You can't put any detailed model in full in plastic mouds. Undercuts. There are some workarounds but those are even more expensive to produce.

It's not very on topic, but I strongly dislike the complexity of many newer kits. Especially ones where you need all the part numbers and the instructions to have any hope of figuring out where what goes. As I found out after removing a ton of pieces from their sprues and keeping them sorted in bags to save space.

tneva82 wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
GW does not want people to be able to convert their figures anymore. At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

Technicals. You can't put any detailed model in full in plastic mouds. Undercuts. There are some workarounds but those are even more expensive to produce.

Toy soldier makers have been doing it for years. In plastic. And they cost pennies back when I was a kid.

Yeah and those look like lumps of used chewing gum so not a valid comparison really.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

From the Goonhammer Daemon Prince review:

Thanks for the link and yeah, definitely an issue now. Converting now is actually harder than the days of metal. First you have assemble the 12 part figure then saw it up to change weapons, heads, etc.

The other night I kit bashed a dozen Frost Grave Cultists with extra Star Grave guns, it was fun. Like actual fun. Not a chore at all.

General Hobbs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
GW does not want people to be able to convert their figures anymore. At this point, I wonder what the point is of making them in parts that you have to assemble and not just come out with fully made army men and vehicles.

Technicals. You can't put any detailed model in full in plastic mouds. Undercuts. There are some workarounds but those are even more expensive to produce.

Toy soldier makers have been doing it for years. In plastic. And they cost pennies back when I was a kid.

I said thus detailed models.

Sure you CAN make. You just need to make models without undercuts. And if there are some you can't avoid pay hell of a lot more per mould you make.

The moment you can twist steel and have it return to original shape on it's own is when you can make models with undercuts at will with same plastic GW uses.

Good luck twisting STEEL with your hands. Show us how it's done.

Alternatively of course you can figure out how to get steel pass through plastic when you remove the steel part. So basically make plastic incorporeal for a brief period of time. That works too. Any ideas how you might be able to do that?

Succeed in either of those two and you will be filthy rich in no time. So you certainly have motivation to come up with solution Particularly turning something to incorporeal military alone would pay basically any sum you might want to nominate for that one...

Of course seeing you didn't even bother to read my full post I doubt you can do that.