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The “twice” thing would work for Scions under NMNR, because it’s a 5-man sprue doubled up, so a 10-man squad built from the box could have two of each special.

 Crimson wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
Argh.

So going around the net......because there is now an official entry for Kasrkin, you can no longer use your old metal/resin Kasrkin models as stormtroopers and can only use actual scions or older stormtrooper models to represent stormtrooper/scions.

What? Of course you can.

As someone who has a metal-Kasrkin scions army (and photos of the relevant new Scion datasheets in front of me), you can but it's a bit more tricky if trying to follow rules exactly. Notable changes:

Vox/master-Vox now must have a hotshot pistol, no option for hotshot lasgun (so my Kasrkin's with modified backpacks are no longer wysiwyg)
Confirmed a ten-man squad can have max double of the same special weapon, which isn't a problem for me, but is for others.
Command squad only one special weapon max
Regimental standard bearer must have a hotshot lasgun, not a pistol. So my converted Kasrkin Sgt to standard bearer is also not wysiwyg.
But strangely the medic can either take a pistol+medkit, or a rifle+pistol+medkit. Not sure why the standard bearer and vox was written one way, and the medic another.

Otherwise it's pretty much business as usual. The strange, unnecessary changes don't make it impossible, but it does really hurt my OCD brain. My list was based around one fluffy medic/standard bearer command squad and one meta x4 plasma command squad, so just need to make some changes there but otherwise I think I'm good.

I do really like the Kasrkin datasheet though, and have a bunch of the old Cadian metal snipers that are getting added in when I run them as those.

Had a quick peek at the codex last night, it looked like the new superheavy weapon units (the big cannon, nebelwerfer, and heavy lascannon) are fixed at units of 2 rather than the 2-4 model units that were being advertised elsewhere. Anyone else get a better look and can clarify?

To take the vox operator as an example, as hotshot lasgun isn't an option, you wouldn't get penalised by any sane opponent for having it modelled however as long as you play the rule son the sheet. It's almost universal that base wargear doesn't factor in, but upgrades or replacements do so people can see what's happening appropriately.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Had a quick peek at the codex last night, it looked like the new superheavy weapon units (the big cannon, nebelwerfer, and heavy lascannon) are fixed at units of 2 rather than the 2-4 model units that were being advertised elsewhere. Anyone else get a better look and can clarify?

Can confirm, I'm looking a picture of it right now.

Though seeing that the L7 / Sagitaur missile launcher option wording got changed from the LoV box set codex to the stand-alone codex, I'm not holding anything set in stone until the new year.

Dudeface wrote:
To take the vox operator as an example, as hotshot lasgun isn't an option, you wouldn't get penalised by any sane opponent for having it modelled however as long as you play the rule son the sheet. It's almost universal that base wargear doesn't factor in, but upgrades or replacements do so people can see what's happening appropriately.

Besides my OCD brain not liking it one bit, I will 100% get this wrong during games sometimes just out of habit. Just seems like an unnecessary change as well. Although in this perspective, it makes "sense."

There is a strong tendency these days for Unit Rules Options to match up exactly with the model build instructions. This is true even if it is easily possible to disregard the build instructions and kit bash alternative model builds.

 alextroy wrote:
There is a strong tendency these days for Unit Rules Options to match up exactly with the model build instructions. This is true even if it is easily possible to disregard the build instructions and kit bash alternative model builds.

What's this "these days" crap?

They FAQ'd it a couple times before, because people complained there wasn't an "easy way" to do it. The medic+comms both saw FAQs for that very reason.

KillerAngel wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
Argh.

So going around the net......because there is now an official entry for Kasrkin, you can no longer use your old metal/resin Kasrkin models as stormtroopers and can only use actual scions or older stormtrooper models to represent stormtrooper/scions.

What? Of course you can.

As someone who has a metal-Kasrkin scions army (and photos of the relevant new Scion datasheets in front of me), you can but it's a bit more tricky if trying to follow rules exactly. Notable changes:

Vox/master-Vox now must have a hotshot pistol, no option for hotshot lasgun (so my Kasrkin's with modified backpacks are no longer wysiwyg)
Confirmed a ten-man squad can have max double of the same special weapon, which isn't a problem for me, but is for others.
Command squad only one special weapon max
Regimental standard bearer must have a hotshot lasgun, not a pistol. So my converted Kasrkin Sgt to standard bearer is also not wysiwyg.
But strangely the medic can either take a pistol+medkit, or a rifle+pistol+medkit. Not sure why the standard bearer and vox was written one way, and the medic another.

Otherwise it's pretty much business as usual. The strange, unnecessary changes don't make it impossible, but it does really hurt my OCD brain. My list was based around one fluffy medic/standard bearer command squad and one meta x4 plasma command squad, so just need to make some changes there but otherwise I think I'm good.

I do really like the Kasrkin datasheet though, and have a bunch of the old Cadian metal snipers that are getting added in when I run them as those.

I questioned GW events and they said no, you have use the appropriate models. I am waiting to hear back on conversions.

ITC does not have a dedicated model approval email yet.

Adepticon rules are clear, you can't use an existing army to represent another army, so Kasrkin can't be played as Stormtroopers.

General Hobbs wrote:
I questioned GW events and they said no, you have use the appropriate models. I am waiting to hear back on conversions.

ITC does not have a dedicated model approval email yet.

Adepticon rules are clear, you can't use an existing army to represent another army, so Kasrkin can't be played as Stormtroopers.

Totally fair, and very unfortunate for those that like to play at official GW events. I can empathize with that. Not something I would ever consider doing, however.

So can I use my dkok grenediers as kaskrin since they are both carapace models with hotshot lasguns and specials…

I mean it’s not an official tournament model anymore either since it’s been legends..so there should be no confusion.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
There is a strong tendency these days for Unit Rules Options to match up exactly with the model build instructions. This is true even if it is easily possible to disregard the build instructions and kit bash alternative model builds.

What's this "these days" crap?

They FAQ'd it a couple times before, because people complained there wasn't an "easy way" to do it. The medic+comms both saw FAQs for that very reason.

It is incredibly easy- the kit comes with sheathed lasguns. You can also build the vox without using the telephone arm and give it lasgun arms, or build the medic with just the medipack and not the chainsaw laspistol.

 Haighus wrote:

It is incredibly easy- the kit comes with sheathed lasguns. You can also build the vox without using the telephone arm and give it lasgun arms, or build the medic with just the medipack and not the chainsaw laspistol.

I'm aware of all of this. Just like I'm aware that they had to FAQ the laspistols for Medic+Vox into the datasheet in the first place, a little while after Scions released back in the Before Times.

I'm also aware that the smarter solution would simply have been to add pistols to all of the Scions in the first place, ruleswise, and have offered holstered pistols as part of an additional sprue.

KillerAngel wrote:


Though seeing that the L7 / Sagitaur missile launcher option wording got changed from the LoV box set codex to the stand-alone codex, I'm not holding anything set in stone until the new year.

Okay, I must have missed something. What changed?

 cuda1179 wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Though seeing that the L7 / Sagitaur missile launcher option wording got changed from the LoV box set codex to the stand-alone codex, I'm not holding anything set in stone until the new year

Okay, I must have missed something. What changed?

The wargear options for the Sagitaur have different wording from the boxset codex to the standalone codex.

vs

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

It is incredibly easy- the kit comes with sheathed lasguns. You can also build the vox without using the telephone arm and give it lasgun arms, or build the medic with just the medipack and not the chainsaw laspistol.

I'm aware of all of this. Just like I'm aware that they had to FAQ the laspistols for Medic+Vox into the datasheet in the first place, a little while after Scions released back in the Before Times.

I'm also aware that the smarter solution would simply have been to add pistols to all of the Scions in the first place, ruleswise, and have offered holstered pistols as part of an additional sprue.

Agree on the latter option. The 5th ed rules for stormtroopers did just that, and I really liked how playing stormtroopers felt in that edition. Sure, they weren't good in melee, but they felt better and more elite than guardsmen whilst maintaining the ranged firepower.

KillerAngel wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Though seeing that the L7 / Sagitaur missile launcher option wording got changed from the LoV box set codex to the stand-alone codex, I'm not holding anything set in stone until the new year

Okay, I must have missed something. What changed?

The wargear options for the Sagitaur have different wording from the boxset codex to the standalone codex.

Spoiler:

vs

Spoiler:

your pic is dead... whats different?

 usernamesareannoying wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:
Though seeing that the L7 / Sagitaur missile launcher option wording got changed from the LoV box set codex to the stand-alone codex, I'm not holding anything set in stone until the new year

Okay, I must have missed something. What changed?

The wargear options for the Sagitaur have different wording from the boxset codex to the standalone codex.

Spoiler:

vs

Spoiler:

your pic is dead... whats different?

It went from an L7 and sagitaur launcher to an or.

On an unrelated note have we reached the point where people spend 3 editions requesting the return of Kasrkin, only for people to complain about the return of Kasrkin because they have to use them as the unit they represent?

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
your pic is dead... whats different?

Pic isn't dead, though you might not be able to access imgur.

It went from an L7 and sagitaur launcher to an or.

Other way around. Army box codex has: ...replaced with one of the following: 1 L7 missile launcher; 1 MATR autocannon; 1 Sagitaur missile launcher.
Stand-alone codex has: ...replaced with one of the following: 1 L7 missile launcher and 1 Sagitaur missile launcher; 1 MATR autocannon.

Wasn't there a rumor that conscripts would survive as White Shields (the RT cannon fodder unit), did anything come of that?

There was a rumor of a whiteshields datasheet in the book. I did not see one while glancing through the book last night.

There's no kit for Whiteshields, so what did you expect?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Had a quick peek at the codex last night, it looked like the new superheavy weapon units (the big cannon, nebelwerfer, and heavy lascannon) are fixed at units of 2 rather than the 2-4 model units that were being advertised elsewhere. Anyone else get a better look and can clarify?

"Two, there always are. No more, no less." - Yoda, Astra Millawhatnow Castellan

It's fething asinine.

Dudeface wrote:
On an unrelated note have we reached the point where people spend 3 editions requesting the return of Kasrkin, only for people to complain about the return of Kasrkin because they have to use them as the unit they represent?

People wanted Kasrkin back because the models were awesome. I assure you that no one wanted the mess of rules they have received.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What's this "these days" crap?

Because NM/NR is a far more recent thing, in case you haven't been paying attention.

"Senior Officer" the re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura, is only on Creed, Straken, and the Castellan?

If I want to have a re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura in my army of Steel Legion Bombardiers/Elite Shock Troops, do I just... pick which Cadian or Catachan person to put in my army?

 ph34r wrote:
"Senior Officer" the re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura, is only on Creed, Straken, and the Castellan?

If I want to have a re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura in my army of Steel Legion Bombardiers/Elite Shock Troops, do I just... pick which Cadian or Catachan person to put in my army?

Correct.

See, what GW did was find a way to detach "planets" from the regimental doctrine rules, giving you more freedom to have "Your Dudes" be whatever you want them to be. Then they went and made planet-specific characters that give out rules that general characters in every other army give out, because that makes total sense.

And so ultimately it "doesn't matter" because having one of those planet-specific characters doesn't turn off my regimental doctrine bonuses?

Do I just remember that my Castellan and only them has a "6s to hit auto wound" doctrine? Definitely feels weird as heck.

The whole thing is a little weird.

Got the codex infront of me and I'm trying to figure out how to make my Krieg act as they do in the lore, which is going to require a combination of subpar (which is fine) regimental doctrines, and orders which looks like to make it work in certain amount of point lists I'm going to have to proxy in models/characters that don't share the same regiment keyword (which again is fine, I just don't really like it).

Here's hoping Forgeworld sort something out for Krieg models/officers and/or they get a regiment of renown army at some point which makes them operate a bit more like they should do.

Not to mention, fixing this daft plasma or vox option.... And their pitiful Ld value.

 ph34r wrote:
And so ultimately it "doesn't matter" because having one of those planet-specific characters doesn't turn off my regimental doctrine bonuses?

Planets are irrelevant for doctrines.

 ph34r wrote:
Do I just remember that my Castellan and only them has a "6s to hit auto wound" doctrine? Definitely feels weird as heck.

It's a weird clunky Codex from start to finish.

And you can tell it's bad when it makes the Chaos Codex look good.

I was going to use thr krieg profile UNTIL it saw the vox or plasma rule, that just made me use the shock troop profile. What a dumb rule.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Here's hoping Forgeworld sort something out for Krieg models/officers and/or they get a regiment of renown army at some point which makes them operate a bit more like they should do.

What FW is going to do is to "legend" Krieg because now that they have an entry on the main codex there cannot be more options!

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
"Senior Officer" the re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura, is only on Creed, Straken, and the Castellan?

If I want to have a re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura in my army of Steel Legion Bombardiers/Elite Shock Troops, do I just... pick which Cadian or Catachan person to put in my army?

Correct.

See, what GW did was find a way to detach "planets" from the regimental doctrine rules, giving you more freedom to have "Your Dudes" be whatever you want them to be. Then they went and made planet-specific characters that give out rules that general characters in every other army give out, because that makes total sense.

So basically how the 5th edition Space Marine codex operated when you think about it.