Nephilim Chapter Approved Rumors

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**Voss**

Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

**Dudeface**

Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

**Voss**

Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

What gibberish is this?
At no point should _anyone_ be peer pressured or harassed into accepting corporate software on their devices for 'free stuff.'

If they want to make it free, they can put up a frickin' document. Even GW has finally realized that's the bare minimum. Why can't you?

**Matt.Kingsley**

Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

Does GW not advertising that the points are updated in the app when they advertise the new book have something to do with it?
I mean the app is still terrible and most probably still wouldn't choose to use it even if they did know, but the point still stands. Especially when most other companies would still provide a free pdf anyway in addition to a free app update.

**Quasistellar**

"It's free, but not in the specific format I want, so therefore it's not free."
--same old dakka people

I mean I can't blame people for not knowing the points have been free in the app for like a year and a half, because the app is still hot garbage and they probably uninstalled it. But to argue that it's not actually free (i.e. no money exchanged) is next level dakka.

**Rihgu**

Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

What gibberish is this?
At no point should _anyone_ be peer pressured or harassed into accepting corporate software on their devices for 'free stuff.'

If they want to make it free, they can put up a frickin' document. Even GW has finally realized that's the bare minimum. Why can't you?

GW should in fact be mailing me the points updates on printed paper for free to a PO box not associated with my name, lest I be peer-pressured into going onto their website (where they can collect info from me) and downloading PDFs (which can execute malicious code on my system).

**Jidmah**

Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

What gibberish is this?
At no point should _anyone_ be peer pressured or harassed into accepting corporate software on their devices for 'free stuff.'

If they want to make it free, they can put up a frickin' document. Even GW has finally realized that's the bare minimum. Why can't you?

There still is a difference between claiming that GW is not providing points for free and GW not providing points for free in a way you prefer.

And that's from someone who thinks that the 40k app is absolute amateur garbage that any half-decent app studio with zero knowledge of 40k could sell you for ~$50k.

**Voss**

Rihgu wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

What gibberish is this?
At no point should _anyone_ be peer pressured or harassed into accepting corporate software on their devices for 'free stuff.'

If they want to make it free, they can put up a frickin' document. Even GW has finally realized that's the bare minimum. Why can't you?

GW should in fact be mailing me the points updates on printed paper for free to a PO box not associated with my name, lest I be peer-pressured into going onto their website (where they can collect info from me) and downloading PDFs (which can execute malicious code on my system).

OK, since I apparently have to explain this, Dudeface is going for peer-pressure, since he pushes the app at people every time the topic of points comes up.
GW just wants people to sign up for their terrible and pointless app.

**Jidmah**

Voss wrote:
OK, since I apparently have to explain this, Dudeface is going for peer-pressure, since he pushes the app at people every time the topic of points comes up.
GW just wants people to sign up for their terrible and pointless app.

Considering how everyone and their dog uses battlescribe to manage those freely available points, how exactly is anyone peer pressured into using the app?

Or is this a philosophical thing about those five people still writing their lists by hand while cross-referencing a physical copy of the munitorium manual?

**Daedalus81**

Dendarien wrote:

You clearly haven't faced the war dog spam yet. It's very real.

I have - I usually pull down 3 a turn from turn 2 and they're really limited on where they can go and what they can range to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why wouldn't 'Nids have two Tyrants?

Not that they can't, but they'll be less inclined.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

eldritchx wrote:
Dirk Reinecke wrote:
I don't know if you have seen the new Warhammer Community Article. It has an image with the secondaries for the Astra Militarum.

I guess the rule of only one faction secondary is still in effect, because it it wasn't I would see the guard really moving up in the rankings. {It seems this is gone}

The "Inflexible Command" secondary (No Mercy, No Respite) is very, very tasty.

At the end of your turn you score +2 victory points if all your infantry are within 6' of a friendly officer.

Score 1 victory point if every vehicle is within 12' of a vehicle officer unit.

Score 1 victory point if if any units were destroyed by a unit that had an order on it.

As an interesting note it also goes on that if the officer is in a transport, that transport is assumed to have the officer keyword.

It also goes on to state that infantry units with a vox caster is within 24' of an officer it counts as being within 6' if the officer is within 1' of a friendly command squad.

This one should be easy to max. Incidentally did you know the Master of Ordinance also has the officer keyword? As does the master of the Fleet. It doesn't seem to be <Regiment> Locked either.

I think this will be a lot less easy to max than you think. The opponent just has to focus down your tank commanders to immediately deny you 5-10 points from it (because which infantry unit with an order are you going to be reliably destroying units with?)

I really like the concept of these. Application may vary, but I look forward to the other secondaries.

**Dudeface**

Voss wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

What gibberish is this?
At no point should _anyone_ be peer pressured or harassed into accepting corporate software on their devices for 'free stuff.'

If they want to make it free, they can put up a frickin' document. Even GW has finally realized that's the bare minimum. Why can't you?

GW should in fact be mailing me the points updates on printed paper for free to a PO box not associated with my name, lest I be peer-pressured into going onto their website (where they can collect info from me) and downloading PDFs (which can execute malicious code on my system).

OK, since I apparently have to explain this, Dudeface is going for peer-pressure, since he pushes the app at people every time the topic of points comes up.
GW just wants people to sign up for their terrible and pointless app.

What am I peer-pressuring you into? I bring it up a lot because people spout false statements a lot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
Voss wrote:
OK, since I apparently have to explain this, Dudeface is going for peer-pressure, since he pushes the app at people every time the topic of points comes up.
GW just wants people to sign up for their terrible and pointless app.

Considering how everyone and their dog uses battlescribe to manage those freely available points, how exactly is anyone peer pressured into using the app?

Or is this a philosophical thing about those five people still writing their lists by hand while cross-referencing a physical copy of the munitorium manual?

No, no Jidmah, I specifically am peer pressuring everyone else into installing the app apparently, my simple fact stating is enough to sway weak minds it seems.

**ERJAK**

Dudeface wrote:
Voss wrote:
Its not bad faith for anyone who doesn't use the app. (which AFAIK is most people)

Does the fact they chose not to use it invalidate that GW provided free points via the app?

I wouldn't trust the points on the App to be correct if it was the only source of that information. Ignoring any moralistic view on it, the App is a garbage product that is often (extremely often) incorrect or even simply just broken.

**xttz**

ERJAK wrote:
the App is a garbage product that is often (extremely often) incorrect

[citation needed]

**LunarSol**

The drop to 6 CP seems like a solid change. The removal of the basic WLT and Relic seems like an overcorrection.

**Tyel**

LunarSol wrote:
The drop to 6 CP seems like a solid change. The removal of the basic WLT and Relic seems like an overcorrection.

Is it weird I'd almost go the other way? I.E. let every character unlock a WLT/Relic.

I have a feeling this is going to get FAQed in a few weeks when there's a big internet hate campaign. HQs without toys are incredibly boring, and in a lot of cases very weak.

**oni**

I don't know how to even play this fething game anymore. It's literally changing every few months.

Warhammer Tourney-K is fething awesome; best edition ever.

**H.B.M.C.**

No kidding, oni. I especially love how I'll have to pay more for my Hive Tyrants because some tournament people in the US brought one HT configuration that I had never even though of over and over and over again.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Not that they can't, but they'll be less inclined.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.

xttz wrote:
The complaint is based on bad faith debate and flat out ignoring any inconvenient facts. Nothing else.

Of course you would say that.

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

That's not "bad faith". That's not "inconvenient facts". That's just what they did. It was part of the Chapter Approved pack - the second booklet that came with the main book.

**BrotherGecko**

oni wrote:
I don't know how to even play this fething game anymore. It's literally changing every few months.

Warhammer Tourney-K is fething awesome; best edition ever.

If you are not playing in tournaments it hasn't changed much since the beginning.

**Dudeface**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
No kidding, oni. I especially love how I'll have to pay more for my Hive Tyrants because some tournament people in the US brought one HT configuration that I had never even though of over and over and over again.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Not that they can't, but they'll be less inclined.
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.

xttz wrote:
The complaint is based on bad faith debate and flat out ignoring any inconvenient facts. Nothing else.
Of course you would say that.

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

That's not "bad faith". That's not "inconvenient facts". That's just what they did. It was part of the Chapter Approved pack - the second booklet that came with the main book.

But... I got all the points updates without paying for a chapter approved....

**Rihgu**

Dudeface wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
No kidding, oni. I especially love how I'll have to pay more for my Hive Tyrants because some tournament people in the US brought one HT configuration that I had never even though of over and over and over again.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Not that they can't, but they'll be less inclined.
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.

xttz wrote:
The complaint is based on bad faith debate and flat out ignoring any inconvenient facts. Nothing else.
Of course you would say that.

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

That's not "bad faith". That's not "inconvenient facts". That's just what they did. It was part of the Chapter Approved pack - the second booklet that came with the main book.

But... I got all the points updates without paying for a chapter approved....

Aha! But you see, you have fallen into my trap! You pay for Warhammer+, correct? Ignore, for a moment, that Warhammer+ is a number of services that happens to also include points updates - IT INCLUDES POINTS UPDATES! Therefore, you admit, that you have paid for points updates!

**Dudeface**

Rihgu wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
No kidding, oni. I especially love how I'll have to pay more for my Hive Tyrants because some tournament people in the US brought one HT configuration that I had never even though of over and over and over again.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Not that they can't, but they'll be less inclined.
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.

xttz wrote:
The complaint is based on bad faith debate and flat out ignoring any inconvenient facts. Nothing else.
Of course you would say that.

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

That's not "bad faith". That's not "inconvenient facts". That's just what they did. It was part of the Chapter Approved pack - the second booklet that came with the main book.

But... I got all the points updates without paying for a chapter approved....

Aha! But you see, you have fallen into my trap! You pay for Warhammer+, correct? Ignore, for a moment, that Warhammer+ is a number of services that happens to also include points updates - IT INCLUDES POINTS UPDATES! Therefore, you admit, that you have paid for points updates!

Whilst I do, you do not need warhammer+ for the points, they are free, my brothers ork codex has been updating without the subscription.

**H.B.M.C.**

Dudeface wrote:
Whilst I do, you do not need warhammer+ for the points, they are free, my brothers ork codex has been updating without the subscription.

The majority of people got their points update via paid-for booklet. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. That's arguing in bad faith, and you damn-well know it.

**Rihgu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Whilst I do, you do not need warhammer+ for the points, they are free, my brothers ork codex has been updating without the subscription.
The majority of people got their points update via paid-for booklet. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. That's arguing in bad faith, and you damn-well know it.

Personally I feel like it's less bad faith than arguing that you were required or obligated to buy the booklet, and suggesting that points updates were available via no other method.

**H.B.M.C.**

I never suggested they weren't, but none of them were "free". They were "free" in the sense that the toy that comes with a Happy Meal is "free"; you can't get one without paying for it.

Claiming that you didn't really have to pay for points updates is intellectually dishonest.

**Dudeface**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I never suggested they weren't, but none of them were "free". They were "free" in the sense that the toy that comes with a Happy Meal is "free"; you can't get one without paying for it.

Soooo again, how do you plan on playing without a codex?

**Eldarsif**

LunarSol wrote:
The drop to 6 CP seems like a solid change. The removal of the basic WLT and Relic seems like an overcorrection.

Maybe, but I am all for testing it out. If it ends up being the worst of the worst GW will overcorrect it back(2 free relics and traits!) in 6 months.

**Rihgu**

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

Strictly speaking, no, you never suggested that they weren't. But you did outright state that they "made you pay for points updates".

The policy has merely changed from making you pay for points and getting updates for free, to not making you pay for either.

**Dudeface**

Rihgu wrote:

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

Strictly speaking, no, you never suggested that they weren't. But you did outright state that they "made you pay for points updates".

The policy has merely changed from making you pay for points and getting updates for free, to not making you pay for either.

And as we well know, most of the people comlaining about paying for points, didn't likely pay for the points, or the updates.

**Rihgu**

Dudeface wrote:
Rihgu wrote:

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

Strictly speaking, no, you never suggested that they weren't. But you did outright state that they "made you pay for points updates".

The policy has merely changed from making you pay for points and getting updates for free, to not making you pay for either.

And as we well know, most of the people comlaining about paying for points, didn't likely pay for the points, or the updates.

I actually wouldn't go so far to say that. I think (with no real evidence, honestly), that most people did pay for points and the updates. Anecdotally, from my group, almost everybody buys Chapter Approved when it releases even if they play 40k once every 6 months. I think they must just like to list build.

**Dudeface**

Rihgu wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Rihgu wrote:

GW made you pay for points updates. They've been doing it with Chapter Approved for quite a while now. They've only just stopped doing that with this upcoming CA because people complained about it enough for them to take notice.

Strictly speaking, no, you never suggested that they weren't. But you did outright state that they "made you pay for points updates".

The policy has merely changed from making you pay for points and getting updates for free, to not making you pay for either.

And as we well know, most of the people comlaining about paying for points, didn't likely pay for the points, or the updates.

I actually wouldn't go so far to say that. I think (with no real evidence, honestly), that most people did pay for points and the updates. Anecdotally, from my group, almost everybody buys Chapter Approved when it releases even if they play 40k once every 6 months. I think they must just like to list build.

You're a more trusting soul in that case. I don't play tournament games so never bothered with it, just got the points via the app as needed and as long as they matched whatever I built my list in that was good enough for me and my group.

I only mention that as many of the posters on here regularly criticise GW publications and admit to not buying their printed media, yet are here complaining about the printed media they did not and will not buy.