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 Lord Damocles wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Doubt on the Volkite Vindicator, why would a wall busting tank have a gun that's bad against inorganic matter?

Why would GW give Furioso Dreadnoughts a ranged arm weapon otherwise specific to the Deathwatch..?

I think you got the timeline flipped and reversed there…

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Duymon wrote:
It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s

Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?

FW comes with a bigger price tag.

Some people don't buy from "any other online seller", they buy from their FLGS or a specific online seller that they trust/like.

FW stuff often comes with flaws that warrant the part being replaced.

Lots of people prefer plastic to resin.

Even in the US I've heard reports of FW occasionally taking a long time deliver (there was a thread on it recently and I recall several Muricans complaining their orders were taking weeks to months to be shipped).

Some people don't like the proportions of the old Space Marine models and want something that will match the aesthetic of the Age of Darkness box they just bought.

The person I was replying to - notably, not you - claimed that FW models were "hard to get". While I'll acknowledge that they're harder to get than walking in to a GW/FLGS and picking up a box off the shelf, or a blister pack/clamshell from a rack, that's also true for a, many GW kits; and b, kits from many other lines.

None of the points you raised directly addressed the question I was asking - what makes ordering from FW so much harder than ordering from anywhere else online. You've got a couple of points that may highlight potential customer service issues (potential flaws (not exclusive to FW), and occasional delayed shipping), but they don't make it any harder to order the items.

My point on this is quite simple - people go on about how FW is such a barrier to buying something, yet it is no different than anything else you have to order online. I'm not going to start complaining about how "hard" it is if I need to order a book from Amazon, or Direct Only kits from GW, or paints from Warcolours, or brushes from Rosemary & Co - online shopping is part and parcel (heh) of the world today, and has been for, what, at least a decade now. Yet when it is FW, people choose to act like it is a gigantic barrier to entry.

Your other points might be valid reasons for not wanting to order from FW, but in terms of actually completing a transaction, they make no difference whatsoever.

Currently my only FW purchases have been two IF Contemptor dread bodies and two Heavy bolter Rapier carriers. I'm planning on using plastic arms for the Contemptor (as it is better cost wise) and magnets to allow many options.

 Azazelx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Umm, yeah, it's not really "new hat" syndrome so much as it's "don't want to pay $136 for a 10 man breacher squad" syndrome. But sure, lets pretend that the reason people didn't collect HH for the past 10 years was something other than the insane price and the pain of having to deal with FW and FW resin.

The issue really seems to be that people are getting bent out of shape by the fact that not everything has been updated for a game that's only just been re-released and is in it's (plastic) infancy and they want (insert unit here) re-released in plastic RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WANT IT!!!
Let's not also forget that the AoD box is a great new army start for a Marine army, just short a few special/heavy weapons, so GW is playing it cool with releases and going with a methodical rate rather than spamming and overwhelming the market with too many new AoD releases as they have no real way of knowing just how many boxes sold were to 40k players.

Drama, drama, draaaaaama!

I literally haven’t seen anyone getting bent out of shape. What I have seen is people talking about what state the range is currently in and what they’d like to see next. Then I’ve seen people such as your good self, trying to make drama out of nothing.

I just don't want to pay the price of 40 plastic Tacticals for 10 rather squat, resin Breachers, y'know?

That just strikes me as a poor business decision.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I just don't want to pay the price of 40 plastic Tacticals for 10 rather squat, resin Breachers, y'know?

That just strikes me as a poor business decision.

How dare you been so entitled!

You can buy some compatible "generic boarding shields" and just stick them on the plastic kits?

Has anyone thought about using the upcoming Kill Team / Space Hulk walls for Zone Mortalis?



At first glance there's not much of it, and there's a few too many doors...

I imagine like the Zone Mortalis, we’ll see separate kit releases for this. Which I’m tempted by, as I’d be very surprised if these are entirely incompatible with ZM, and these look a lot more interesting to paint.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I imagine like the Zone Mortalis, we’ll see separate kit releases for this. Which I’m tempted by, as I’d be very surprised if these are entirely incompatible with ZM, and these look a lot more interesting to paint.

They also look like they should be cheaper to purchase, as the walls are all one piece as opposed to the ZM walls which are at least 5 each.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I imagine like the Zone Mortalis, we’ll see separate kit releases for this. Which I’m tempted by, as I’d be very surprised if these are entirely incompatible with ZM, and these look a lot more interesting to paint.

They also look like they should be cheaper to purchase, as the walls are all one piece as opposed to the ZM walls which are at least 5 each.

Oh bless your little cottons!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh bless your little cottons!

Oh I know. But as they say, hope springs eternal.

I think you take your pick depending on the type of environment you want to create. To me the Kill Team stuff is ideal for creating cramped, claustrophobic rooms and corridors. I’d go for Zone Mortalis if I wanted something more open and multilevel.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I’d go for Zone Mortalis if I wanted something more open and multilevel.

Or if you'd recently decided that you could live with only one kidney and had solid black market organ buying networks to make use of.

beast_gts wrote:
Has anyone thought about using the upcoming Kill Team / Space Hulk walls for Zone Mortalis?

Spoiler:

At first glance there's not much of it, and there's a few too many doors...

Agreed on all points.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I’d go for Zone Mortalis if I wanted something more open and multilevel.

Or if you'd recently decided that you could live with only one kidney and had solid black market organ buying networks to make use of.

Yeah, that too.

I hope for Assault Marines and a real Starter Set.

But I doubt - they will show only a Praetor and a Vehicle - I guess...

Titanicus didn't get a "starter box" until 18mo after the game came out....

I fething hope it doesn't take that long for AOD.

The big box is the starter box.

Yea it has a massive single-faction army, at a crazy discount, rules, dice, templates, etc and is not a limited item. Seems pretty startersetty to me. Sure the sticker price is high, but it actually gives you enough models you can have meaningful games with. I don't see the point in a smaller box that doesn't let you play a real game.

General discount bundles would be welcome, of course. Like, I dunno, whole Predator Squadrons, Leviathan Talons...

I was thinking something ZM with some terrain and no big stuff. $150 is more palatable to more beginning players than the $300 launch box aimed at those already interested.

Something like;
Delagatus
5 Terminators
10 Tacticals
5 Breachers
5 Despoilers
With some wall/door sprues and a paper game mat
Should equate to same # of sprues as half of the AOD box

ZM locks you into a play style whereas the AoD box is one or two armies of gully generic units that can be turned into most of the Legion infantry choices.

I’ll be honest, I was kind of surprised that the rule book doesn’t contain Zone Mortalis rules. It also assumes the smallest game you’re going to play is 2000pts.

I’d love to see a low point cost Combat Patrol or Kill Team size game actively supported for this setting.

How can it lock you in when you can use the units in full size 30k games? That's why I chose units that would he beneficial for all legions

AoD has a starter box, you're describing what seems to be a ZM starter box.

yeah there's nothing in the box thats not "widely useful" everyone's going to have a use ofr MK VI marines, terminators and a dread. the only thing in the AOD box that won't be included in nearly every list is proably the spartan, and I bet a LOT of lists will include one of those

 Dysartes wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Duymon wrote:
It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s

Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?

FW comes with a bigger price tag.

Some people don't buy from "any other online seller", they buy from their FLGS or a specific online seller that they trust/like.

FW stuff often comes with flaws that warrant the part being replaced.

Lots of people prefer plastic to resin.

Even in the US I've heard reports of FW occasionally taking a long time deliver (there was a thread on it recently and I recall several Muricans complaining their orders were taking weeks to months to be shipped).

Some people don't like the proportions of the old Space Marine models and want something that will match the aesthetic of the Age of Darkness box they just bought.

The person I was replying to - notably, not you - claimed that FW models were "hard to get". While I'll acknowledge that they're harder to get than walking in to a GW/FLGS and picking up a box off the shelf, or a blister pack/clamshell from a rack, that's also true for a, many GW kits; and b, kits from many other lines.

None of the points you raised directly addressed the question I was asking - what makes ordering from FW so much harder than ordering from anywhere else online. You've got a couple of points that may highlight potential customer service issues (potential flaws (not exclusive to FW), and occasional delayed shipping), but they don't make it any harder to order the items.

My point on this is quite simple - people go on about how FW is such a barrier to buying something, yet it is no different than anything else you have to order online. I'm not going to start complaining about how "hard" it is if I need to order a book from Amazon, or Direct Only kits from GW, or paints from Warcolours, or brushes from Rosemary & Co - online shopping is part and parcel (heh) of the world today, and has been for, what, at least a decade now. Yet when it is FW, people choose to act like it is a gigantic barrier to entry.

Your other points might be valid reasons for not wanting to order from FW, but in terms of actually completing a transaction, they make no difference whatsoever.

Notice how I was referring to the "big influx of Hh players", as in, new players.

There were countless times I'd be playing HH in the past at the FLGS and we're get some people interested in the game only to tell them that they couldn't buy any of the stuff at that store and that they'd have to go online. Sure, we showed them the website on our phones or tablets and they always responded "oh cool I'll take a look later". Only a small fraction of them ever ended up joining.

Compare that to now. We can just tell them "oh, you can get started if you buy that big AoD box right there" . Once they buy that box, they're instantly invested and the chances of them hanging around increase dramatically. Miniature sales work pretty much the same way.

It's true that going online is easy as hell and ordering off FW is just like any other website, but having people do it on their own instead of in the store causes a lot of them to lose steam and/or have second thoughts and not follow through.

So despite how little of a barrier to entry you think online only is, apparently it was pretty huge to the new / casual warhammer players base off of how much HH has exploded since 2.0

 Dysartes wrote:

Duymon wrote:
It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s

Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?

.. Have you seen forge world's north American order page? it's CONSTNATLY out of stock of just about everything

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Duymon wrote:
It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s

Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?

.. Have you seen forge world's north American order page? it's CONSTNATLY out of stock of just about everything

And that's different to gw/flgs online store being constantly out of stock...how?

Gw store even uses same software so literally 0 difference. Flgs might at least show out of stock differently. Well they could let you order, take your money and let you wait for your order months. Up to preference do you want to wait for stock or order, pay and wait unknown time for stock to come.

tneva82 wrote:
And that's different to gw/flgs online store being constantly out of stock...how?

Things come back into stock with GW/FLGS. FW stays out of stock for longer periods, returning to stock at random and without warning, and then selling out almost instantly.

Just ask the AT crowd what it's like.