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I'm not buying Libres either, and the rulebook comes "free" in the box I guess. I got 5 games out of Liber Hereticus and 0 games out of Liber Astartes.

I guess my best bang for the buck in a year was getting 4 games out of the LotR rulebook they released 2 years ago which they followed up with a new edition one year later.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm not buying Libres either, and the rulebook comes "free" in the box I guess. I got 5 games out of Liber Hereticus and 0 games out of Liber Astartes.

I guess my best bang for the buck in a year was getting 4 games out of the LotR rulebook they released 2 years ago which they followed up with a new edition one year later.

Im sorry but the last starter box set of the battle of Osciliath wasn't a new ed at all, it was an updated rulebook with the FAQ's added I believe, all the same ed and core rules since the 2018 starter edition box.

It's a shame you only got a year out of it, but it does sound like you play very few games during that time so your bang for your buck is going to be low no matter what if you use it as a game aid.

The writing on the wall is loud and clear. GW wants us to =REDACTED= all the rulebooks, it is obvious the books are just disposable gak they sell for sheep while laughing all the way to the bank. So only models for me going forward, at least as far as the "big 3 main games" are concerned. Looks like I'm not the only one.

My gaming group have all agreed we are staying with HH 2.0.

Through having said that, Iam going to pick up the rule book and Liber Astartes at some point just to read.

Will likely get the Journals for the scenario's

 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Im sorry but the last starter box set of the battle of Osciliath wasn't a new ed at all, it was an updated rulebook with the FAQ's added I believe, all the same ed and core rules since the 2018 starter edition box.

It's a shame you only got a year out of it, but it does sound like you play very few games during that time so your bang for your buck is going to be low no matter what if you use it as a game aid.

They released a starter set with a rulebook that got invalidated in one year. That's a fact. It doesn't matter how long the edition existed prior to Osgiliath. New players got into LotR with Osgiliath (that's what starters are for) and had to rebuy the book probably before they finished painting the models. It would have lasted one year no matter how often someone played.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
New players got into LotR with Osgiliath (that's what starters are for) and had to rebuy the book probably before they finished painting the models.

This is what I wish GW would understand about rules churn. Making an army for one of their games is a substantial project that can take a long time even for pretty dedicated people for whom this is their main hobby. I'm convinced the rules treadmill turns into a revolving door of customers. People buy in with the best intentions and then get left behind quickly and generally give up. There's a reason my local third party shop makes a roaring trade in half-finished second hand models. None of the models in those cabinets were bought with the intention of selling them back to the shop at a loss.

PS: a new print run of a book that includes changes made over time not in the previous print run is the very definition of a new edition

Just because it wasn't a new game doesn't make it a new edition

Just because GW fans call new games new edition to feel better and therefore miss a word for the actual new editions, doesn't change that the previous printed LotR book that was replaced within a year was a new Edition

New books is the best part of new edition. Always good quality and a great thing to have around.

Oh man do I have loads of outdated GW books. I get about 6 armybooks for AoS each edition despite not even playing the game. And old 40k books I had to move about two shelves to our gaming cellar a few years ago.

I’m interested in the Mechanicum rules. Ursarax were a bit light in the defence area, but a boost to Sv 3+ would do wonders. And of course, I’ve high hopes for more plastic Automata in the next preview.

I'm also in for the Rulebook in the boxed set and the Arcane Journals, but I'm not buying Libers again. Waste of money and space.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/2atp1lyq/horus-heresy-round-table-refreshing-the-rules/

Breachers! Old or new ones, I wonder?

They’re already announced

The heads on the IF Breachers look new to me?

The ones in the Fists picture are old ones.

The article would have been a wonderfully effective marketing tool if we didn't already have the leaks and know about the unhinged AI writing style and all the fiddly nonsense.

Ah, okay. I've never owned the Forge World ones, I got confused

Those breachers are old style.

Good thing they didn't change the game very much.

"This is very much the same Horus Heresy game you know and love, and the team have made targeted refinements to a system that already works really well, making changes only where necessary and adding flavour wherever they can."

I don't want to know what happens if the team ever sees the need to make bigger changes to a game

"Charging across the battlefield to restore a pinned-down Kratos"

Sorry what? You can pin heavy battle tanks? How exactly does one pin a tank. What flavor does that system add, the flavor of regret?

Billicus wrote:
"Charging across the battlefield to restore a pinned-down Kratos"

Sorry what? You can pin heavy battle tanks? How exactly does one pin a tank. What flavor does that system add, the flavor of regret?

Yes, one of the Glancing chart resultss is essentially pinning the tank, which is no different really from Crew Stunned results previously.

A tank crew realistically isn't going to generally actively put themselves in a position to get killed/destroyed.

No, they will drive off. They won't be pinned in the same way that infantry will.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Billicus wrote:
"Charging across the battlefield to restore a pinned-down Kratos"

Sorry what? You can pin heavy battle tanks? How exactly does one pin a tank. What flavor does that system add, the flavor of regret?

Yes, one of the Glancing chart resultss is essentially pinning the tank, which is no different really from Crew Stunned results previously.

A tank crew realistically isn't going to generally actively put themselves in a position to get killed/destroyed.

"Tactically Pinning" tanks or even stuff like Helicopters and such happens in real life, mostly when crews on the ground (without the almost-perfect knowledge you have on the tabletop) decide they're not advancing against e.g. dense terrain occupied by infantry with unknown amounts of anti-tank capabilities. That's one of the reason you do combined-arms tactics, and have formations like mobile infantry, Panzergrenadiere and such to back up the heavies.

On top of that, in 30/40k, a tank is not the relative top of the food chain it is in real battlefields: there are a lot more of various nasty, man-portable anti-tank options, and things like knights, superheavies or titans exist and could dominate tanks in open-terrain slugouts like tanks dominate infantry under the same circumstances.

Now, the way it's done in the game might not be the most comprehensive or flavourful, but the principle of having "statuses" or whatever on vehicles is conceptually sound(-ish).

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Good thing they didn't change the game very much.

"This is very much the same Horus Heresy game you know and love, and the team have made targeted refinements to a system that already works really well, making changes only where necessary and adding flavour wherever they can."

They keep telling this but there are literally more changes to the main system than the lotr system had in its 24 years lifespan combined...
The changes also seem more impactful than between 9th and 10th 40K, which was marketed as new edition and overhaul. It seems to me like someone in GW marketing said: Those HH grognards won't want a new edition that fast, we'll have to keep the changes small. And someone else said: If we don’t change a lot, people won't see the need to buy into the new rules.
So they went and changed all the rules but decided to just tell us they're actually the same.

Tsagualsa wrote:
"Tactically Pinning" tanks or even stuff like Helicopters and such happens in real life, mostly when crews on the ground (without the almost-perfect knowledge you have on the tabletop) decide they're not advancing against e.g. dense terrain occupied by infantry with unknown amounts of anti-tank capabilities. That's one of the reason you do combined-arms tactics, and have formations like mobile infantry, Panzergrenadiere and such to back up the heavies.

On top of that, in 30/40k, a tank is not the relative top of the food chain it is in real battlefields: there are a lot more of various nasty, man-portable anti-tank options, and things like knights, superheavies or titans exist and could dominate tanks in open-terrain slugouts like tanks dominate infantry under the same circumstances.

Yes, I see it the same way. ‘Pinning’ tanks goes right back to WW1 when they first appeared. In WW2 it was common to shut a tank crew down with concentrated fire if you couldn’t actually kill the tank; inexperienced crews would sometimes bail out under sustained machine gun / mortar fire. And we’re seeing Russian tanks in Ukraine pinned by, for instance, fire from 25mm Bushmaster autocannon.

Separately, I found this a bit reassuring: “ Neil (Lead writer): There won’t be much here that changes how your current army works; you might need another Centurion for the new Force Organisation, but that’s about it..” So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

 CragHack wrote:

 Snord wrote:
I have decided to take the plunge and get the boxed set and the 2 Libers. However, this may be my last rodeo with edition churn; if this stuff is indeed made obsolete in 3 years, I will probably throw in the towel. Aside from the major issue with repeatedly re-writing the rules, which is that models and units that have been painstakingly assembled and painted get invalidated, there is something rather immoral about discarding large, expensive tomes like this on a regular basis.

My loyalist liber from v2 still has a shrink on it. No one wants it, I will just bin it

Gah! You can't throw away books! You might damage them, and that's a sin against the Emperor.



You should mail it to me, I'll keep it safe.

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

Can you point to this leak? So others can see it for themselves.

 Nicorex wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

Can you point to this leak? So others can see it for themselves.

https://imgur.com/a/XldhpU9?fbclid=IwY2xjawLbj39leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHqZcDLeGyQ7hT40gYz8NXiPReykEneM6a396vxni4ftZLSP4073NAFYWhnEP_aem_t7Nj6wn-_pkm1MRLZ4mjOg

I haven't seen anyone comment about how they split Knights and titans into their own Liber off from the Mechanicum. So not only do you have to buy all new books, they generated a new one lmao.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I knew it, they're removing options that don't come in the kit.....Grey stalkers are gone from space wolves cause theres no upgrade kit. Mor deythan cant take combi-weapons. Outriders can only replace their bolters with plasma now.

They're invalidating armies and saying they aren't.

Also, theres no PDF units in this book.