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 Platuan4th wrote:

 Nicorex wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

Can you point to this leak? So others can see it for themselves.

https://imgur.com/a/XldhpU9?fbclid=IwY2xjawLbj39leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHqZcDLeGyQ7hT40gYz8NXiPReykEneM6a396vxni4ftZLSP4073NAFYWhnEP_aem_t7Nj6wn-_pkm1MRLZ4mjOg

Thanks

 Snord wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
"Tactically Pinning" tanks or even stuff like Helicopters and such happens in real life, mostly when crews on the ground (without the almost-perfect knowledge you have on the tabletop) decide they're not advancing against e.g. dense terrain occupied by infantry with unknown amounts of anti-tank capabilities. That's one of the reason you do combined-arms tactics, and have formations like mobile infantry, Panzergrenadiere and such to back up the heavies.

On top of that, in 30/40k, a tank is not the relative top of the food chain it is in real battlefields: there are a lot more of various nasty, man-portable anti-tank options, and things like knights, superheavies or titans exist and could dominate tanks in open-terrain slugouts like tanks dominate infantry under the same circumstances.

Yes, I see it the same way. ‘Pinning’ tanks goes right back to WW1 when they first appeared. In WW2 it was common to shut a tank crew down with concentrated fire if you couldn’t actually kill the tank; inexperienced crews would sometimes bail out under sustained machine gun / mortar fire. And we’re seeing Russian tanks in Ukraine pinned by, for instance, fire from 25mm Bushmaster autocannon.

Separately, I found this a bit reassuring: “ Neil (Lead writer): There won’t be much here that changes how your current army works; you might need another Centurion for the new Force Organisation, but that’s about it..” So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Yeah you could have a bailed out status (although that wouldn't make sense for Astartes who won't be getting out of their tank unless it's inoperable) but "pinned" is really not intuitive and I don't think anyone really says they "pin down" an armored vehicle. None of the stuff you're discussing, the threat of man portable AT or ambush guns, heavy small arms fire, etc "pins" a tank, I don't think that's a thing people say. And even if that were the implied ludonarrative here why would a techmarine running over and "repairing" those battlefield conditions from the tank make sense?


It's claptrap

Well there is some wild stuff leaked.

Assault Squad are fething awesome now. Base 2 attacks, has gained access to (free) chainaxes with separate options for new heavy chainaxes (which stats are still unkown).

Veteran Assault Squad is Assault Squad on steroids. 3 attacks with WS 5 and access to all weapons Sergeant would get normally. All Thunder Hammer or Lightning Claws is possible.

Veteran Tactical Squad is BS 5, has access to all combi-weapons, Volkite Chargers and new Disintegrator Rifles besides being able swap weapons for special or heavy weapon for every 5 models. This includes new Disintegrator variants.

By the way, Outriders have gained second wound (finally) and slot wise doesn't compete with Scimitars. And can be put on transports.

 Sotahullu wrote:

slot wise doesn't compete with Scimitars.

Just need to point out this statement is nonsensical.

Whoops, meant to say that Outriders and Scimitars don't share the same detachment.

And they lost two of their weapon options. Which is just *chefs kiss*

 Sotahullu wrote:
Whoops, meant to say that Outriders and Scimitars don't share the same detachment.

Which, as far as I can tell, is pure downside...

So I'd like to see the options for Breachers.

The kit has one handed bolters that are meant to rest in the shield slot. So unless the kit also comes with one handed Volkite chargers, meltaguns, lascutters, plasma guns, and flamers those options are highly likely not going to be on the unit entry. The plastic versions of them have two hands on each weapon.

No Model No Rules came a knocking, just like I prophetized.

What? Based on Interwebular speculation?

You may very well be right. But unless you can link us to the unit entry, maybe Haud Yer Wheesht until more information is available?

The whole Chicken Licken thing is getting tiresome, my dude.

And at least I’m perfectly happy to accept when I’m proven wrong.

Theres already evidence to support this. Theres already previous evidence from other game systems to support this. If it doesn't happen it will be more of a surprise to me.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

So have Sicaran Variants, assuming they didn't roll them into the basic tank entry.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Theres already evidence to support this. Theres already previous evidence from other game systems to support this. If it doesn't happen it will be more of a surprise to me.

So….you’ve no evidence for Heresy? Yeah?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Snord wrote:
So hopefully models in the current libers aren’t going to be invalidated.

Contents page of the Liber Astartes has leaked, Scouts and both Destroyer Squads are gone.

So have Sicaran Variants, assuming they didn't roll them into the basic tank entry.

Yeah these could go either way, either they're legends or just options for a sicaran since they're just turret swaps. Im shocked they haven't made the other variants in plastic yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Theres already evidence to support this. Theres already previous evidence from other game systems to support this. If it doesn't happen it will be more of a surprise to me.

So….you’ve no evidence for Heresy? Yeah?

I just highlighted it in the form of Mor Deythan loosing all their other options besides shotguns.

So….a single unit.

Excellent evidence, m’lud.

Well done. Have an extra cookie.

Especially when, models wise, the More Deffing are all snipers.

They've lost combi weapons (one of the main way people ran them), power weapons, charnabal weapons, special weapon troopers, melta-bombs.

Liber Astartes pages are being leaked.

We know Scouts and all Destroyers are gone

We know wargear options are being culled at least to some degree, most aggressively in specialist units

You going la la la I can't hear you won't change it.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Also, theres no PDF units in this book.

That's because they're going to be in the PDF that drops around day one.

So do Scouts, Destroyers, Armistos, Delegatus, Grey Stalkers, Castellans, and Speakers of the Dead not count MDG?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So….a single unit.

Excellent evidence, m’lud.

Well done. Have an extra cookie.

Especially when, models wise, the More Deffing are all snipers.

What are you even on about? You really think this is single case example? GW do this deliberately. Its a method of combating 3rd party bits from printing and bits companies. There is 100% going to be more examples of this and if you think otherwise you're delusional. It might not be every unit, but its going to be many.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Especially when, models wise, the More Deffing are all snipers.

I like the part where you debunk "No Model No Rules" by saying the options that were cut didn't have models anyway.

Removed - rule #1

So my statement

We know wargear options are being culled at least to some degree, most aggressively in specialist units

is debunked because this unit only lost 7 out of its 8 options or whatever?

Doc that's the point people are making, units that had rules before are losing those rules because models don't exist.

That is the textbook definition of NMNR.

I used to be able to run my Iron Hands with one book, if I moved to HH3 I'd have to use the Legacy PDF to use Destroyers and Scouts, units that have been in HH since the game first came out in 2012, in fact I think Destroyers were one of the first HH units to be made by FW.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So my statement

We know wargear options are being culled at least to some degree, most aggressively in specialist units

is debunked because this unit only lost 7 out of its 8 options or whatever?

Nice try.

Lord Blackfang wrote:No Model No Rules came a knocking, just like I prophetized.

Which, demonstrably, isn’t the case? Yes?

 Gert wrote:
Doc that's the point people are making, units that had rules before are losing those rules because models don't exist.

That is the textbook definition of NMNR.

I used to be able to run my Iron Hands with one book, if I moved to HH3 I'd have to use the Legacy PDF to use Destroyers and Scouts, units that have been in HH since the game first came out in 2012, in fact I think Destroyers were one of the first HH units to be made by FW.

Exactly, and that is extremely gakky for people who spent time and money converting these options and running them for over 10 years in some cases. I have a personal friend that have 3 mor deythan upgraded in a now illegal way.

 Gert wrote:

I used to be able to run my Iron Hands with one book, if I moved to HH3 I'd have to use the Legacy PDF to use Destroyers and Scouts, units that have been in HH since the game first came out in 2012, in fact I think Destroyers were one of the first HH units to be made by FW.

The loss of Destroyers is so incomprehensibly jarring that even I kinda expect they must be hidden somewhere, maybe a Prime upgrade to Veterans or something? ugh

 Gert wrote:
Doc that's the point people are making, units that had rules before are losing those rules because models don't exist.

That is the textbook definition of NMNR.

I used to be able to run my Iron Hands with one book, if I moved to HH3 I'd have to use the Legacy PDF to use Destroyers and Scouts, units that have been in HH since the game first came out in 2012, in fact I think Destroyers were one of the first HH units to be made by FW.

Except for Mor Dethyn. Which can have shotguns, but have no existing models for shotguns.

But hey, I can prove anything with, Y’know, facts.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So my statement

We know wargear options are being culled at least to some degree, most aggressively in specialist units

is debunked because this unit only lost 7 out of its 8 options or whatever?

Nice try.

Lord Blackfang wrote:No Model No Rules came a knocking, just like I prophetized.

Which, demonstrably, isn’t the case? Yes?

You're being an awful petty gak right now man, go to bed.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And at least I’m perfectly happy to accept when I’m proven wrong.

kek

Because theres only been 5 units leaked so far, I feel like you're just gak-posting at this point.