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 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Which is it, GW?

Rulebook: "Psychic Weapons will have the Psychic Trait to identify them."

FAQ: "Q: Are a Psychic Weapon and a Weapon with the Psychic
Trait the same thing?
A: No."

Well, from the rulebook:

Note that some other Weapons make use of the Psyker Trait, but as they do not have the Psychic Trait are not Psychic Weapons per se.

Don't know of any examples though. Maybe you can give a normal weapon the trait with a psychic power for a limited time?

"Weapons that make use of the Psyker Trait" might refer to stuff that is e.g. better at wounding psykers, like "If the model hit by [this] has the Psyker Trait, it always wounds on 2+" or somesuch. There's probably some of these around in Imperial Agents/ Talons (the Culexus for sure, some SoS stuff as well) and a few odds and ends unevenly distributed over the other factions (Khorne stuff, some daemon things etc.)

Kinda funny they decide to give THAT much poseability to those, that don't really need it and will be brought in low numbers, instead of, you know... anything else at all, but mainly regular troopers.

 Albertorius wrote:
Kinda funny they decide to give THAT much poseability to those, that don't really need it and will be brought in low numbers, instead of, you know... anything else at all, but mainly regular troopers.

Isn't that because Saturnine have ball joints and it costs literally nothing to leave them posable?

They'd have to be actively spiteful to remove that feature.

 Albertorius wrote:
Kinda funny they decide to give THAT much poseability to those, that don't really need it and will be brought in low numbers, instead of, you know... anything else at all, but mainly regular troopers.

I disagree. Posability is more important on larger models.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Times like these, I'm glad Knights don't get options.

Heresy Questoris have options. I'd hate to lose double Gatlings and have to go to load outs being differently named units like 40K IK.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:
From reddit. A cool collection of images on how flexible the Saturnine kits are. Honestly would be amazing if this level of poseability starts coming to other things like Tau battlesuits etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1m34zis/flexibility_of_saturnine_terminator_model_posing/

Or, you know, even something as simple as Intercessors.

Intecessor designs don't work with ball and socket joints.

 Geifer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Kinda funny they decide to give THAT much poseability to those, that don't really need it and will be brought in low numbers, instead of, you know... anything else at all, but mainly regular troopers.

Isn't that because Saturnine have ball joints and it costs literally nothing to leave them posable?

They'd have to be actively spiteful to remove that feature.

Exactly.

I still just can't get past not being able to figure out how a human-ish shaped object fits inside those things. If GW want to keep making models with wonky anatomy the least they could do is stick a fluff blurb somewhere along the lines of "oh yeah um they get nuggeted and the arms & legs are mechanical" so it doesn't tickle my 'tism.

I hope that HH tanking will make GW to allow using HH units in 40K again in order to sell models.

 Snord wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Kinda funny they decide to give THAT much poseability to those, that don't really need it and will be brought in low numbers, instead of, you know... anything else at all, but mainly regular troopers.

I disagree. Posability is more important on larger models.

So instead we have the same five poses on all marks, forever.

The standard posing is presumably necessary for the purposes of upgrade kit compatibility

chaos0xomega wrote:
The standard posing is presumably necessary for the purposes of upgrade kit compatibility

Not really, no. The arms are the only thing that needs to be taken into account. And the arms and heads are the things that are swappable between poses, so...

Much more likely that they do it because it allows their sprue-arranging software to do its job more efficiently and cut their costs.

There is also a trade off in ease of build and posability.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the options. But when I was putting together my contemptor dread from the last box? Had him in a zillion parts, ready to be glued, and hoped I’d get the angles of everything just right when the glue dried. And I wasn’t even planning for anything fancy.

Now 30k is billed more as an “expert” level game, so I think it’s OK for that. But I could see new players being a bit daunted.

 Nevelon wrote:
There is also a trade off in ease of build and posability.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the options. But when I was putting together my contemptor dread from the last box? Had him in a zillion parts, ready to be glued, and hoped I’d get the angles of everything just right when the glue dried. And I wasn’t even planning for anything fancy.

Now 30k is billed more as an “expert” level game, so I think it’s OK for that. But I could see new players being a bit daunted.

Eh, I think that also stems from the same process issue though - GW don't split their models to be easy to make, they split them to be efficiently laid out on sprues so boxed product is more efficient to warehouse, display, and ship. Build a few Bandai Black Series kits, Gundams etc and you quickly realise GW *could* make something like a dreadnought that is both relatively effortless to build *and* well articulated, they simply choose not to so they can make the kit on one fewer sprues.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Times like these, I'm glad Knights don't get options.

Heresy Questoris have options. I'd hate to lose double Gatlings and have to go to load outs being differently named units like 40K IK.

But you do lose out on the pre-Imperium-era Dominus Knight that vanishes from every Knight World, Titan Legio, and Forgeworld during the Heresy... for... reasons.

Also, as BorderCountess is quick to remind me, the HH double Avenger becomes Chaos Knights only. Which still hurts everything I see one in play.

Sometimes i think the lack of presence of certain 40k era units in 30k is down to specialists team going "nah, that gak is just dumb".

Do we have a date for the Mk.II Assault Squad release yet?

Not yet, no. Nor the Fellblade which I could’ve sworn they said would go up for order the same time as Saturnine.

I thought they said shortly after saturnine

So hopefully on preorder next week I guess?

Anyway, I have found a criticism of the new rules that everyone else missed! Behold: the initiative modifier characteristic should use a different letter to depict “no modifier” because the font they use for the rules makes “I” and “1” too close to call sometimes. We’ll just ignore that the rule doesn’t actually support setting a value other than 0 and pretend the missing +/- is going to turn out to be a misprint. Or something.

Quality work, sheer magnificence in print. Gutenberg is shedding a tear that his invention may not be worthy of such perfection.

Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Times like these, I'm glad Knights don't get options.

Heresy Questoris have options. I'd hate to lose double Gatlings and have to go to load outs being differently named units like 40K IK.

But you do lose out on the pre-Imperium-era Dominus Knight that vanishes from every Knight World, Titan Legio, and Forgeworld during the Heresy... for... reasons.

Also, as BorderCountess is quick to remind me, the HH double Avenger becomes Chaos Knights only. Which still hurts everything I see one in play.

Ahhhhhh....Does Chaos get something that Loyalist Scum doesn't? Ahhhh. /s

cole1114 wrote:Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Who cares? No more Night Fighting. 3.0 effectively ended the 8th Legion. Complete and total garbage.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Who cares? No more Night Fighting. 3.0 effectively ended the 8th Legion. Complete and total garbage.

Big disagree, we're very strong right now. Raptors are ridiculous, vanguard (4) with ws6 thunder hammers at I3 on a charge is very strong. Terrors are overpriced as always, but extremely good for setting off statuses. And contekar are a blender now that they combined glaives and blades into a best of both worlds. And the headsman's axe is a better thunder hammer as well. Out of everyone we have the best interaction with statuses, with our rite of war and high-vanguard-special-boys.

We also pair great with knights to cover up our weaknesses. An allied-in freeblade castigator to hit suppressive AND take out 2+ saves as well as a pack of warglaives for tanks, well, the math is easy there.

No, you see, unless Night Lords are attacking or defending at night, specifically, they're not living up to their lore. Living up to the lore is very important in a narrative game, so it's imperative that Night Lords always be attacking or defending at night.

They're not good at terror tactics like pinning enemies, stunning enemies, routing enemies, etc. They're night-fighters! and NOT fights-with-knighters!

 cole1114 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Who cares? No more Night Fighting. 3.0 effectively ended the 8th Legion. Complete and total garbage.

Big disagree, we're very strong right now. Raptors are ridiculous, vanguard (4) with ws6 thunder hammers at I3 on a charge is very strong. Terrors are overpriced as always, but extremely good for setting off statuses. And contekar are a blender now that they combined glaives and blades into a best of both worlds. And the headsman's axe is a better thunder hammer as well. Out of everyone we have the best interaction with statuses, with our rite of war and high-vanguard-special-boys.

We also pair great with knights to cover up our weaknesses. An allied-in freeblade castigator to hit suppressive AND take out 2+ saves as well as a pack of warglaives for tanks, well, the math is easy there.

Blah, blah, blah. This just sounds like straight power gaming. Night Lords not being able to game Night Fighting is lame. I don't care if the Legion is strong besides. You do you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rihgu wrote:
No, you see, unless Night Lords are attacking or defending at night, specifically, they're not living up to their lore. Living up to the lore is very important in a narrative game, so it's imperative that Night Lords always be attacking or defending at night.

They're not good at terror tactics like pinning enemies, stunning enemies, routing enemies, etc. They're night-fighters! and NOT fights-with-knighters!

I'm having trouble discerning whether or not you're being sarcastic.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Who cares? No more Night Fighting. 3.0 effectively ended the 8th Legion. Complete and total garbage.

Big disagree, we're very strong right now. Raptors are ridiculous, vanguard (4) with ws6 thunder hammers at I3 on a charge is very strong. Terrors are overpriced as always, but extremely good for setting off statuses. And contekar are a blender now that they combined glaives and blades into a best of both worlds. And the headsman's axe is a better thunder hammer as well. Out of everyone we have the best interaction with statuses, with our rite of war and high-vanguard-special-boys.

We also pair great with knights to cover up our weaknesses. An allied-in freeblade castigator to hit suppressive AND take out 2+ saves as well as a pack of warglaives for tanks, well, the math is easy there.

Blah, blah, blah. This just sounds like straight power gaming. Night Lords not being able to game Night Fighting is lame. I don't care if the Legion is strong besides. You do you.

I mean they do not always fight at night. I'm just really happy with where they are, both from a rules and narrative perspective. Glad the ranged bonus is gone, glad all our special units are actually worth taking. I'm happiest with my NL when they're doing weird coward gak, softening up the enemy for a big blow and retreating to prevent a counter.

In the grim darkness of the far future, nobody has night vision, thermal vision, etc.

Like seriously, the whole "we need night fighting rules" is ridiculously dumb and also nonsensical from a lore standpoint. Every marine is equipped with a helmet with built-in night vision optics which are usually described in the fluff as enabling them to see as if it were daylight.

Then you go to Mechanicum. You better beleive Automata are able to see in the dark just fine. Everything beyond tech-thralls pretty much would or should have that capability, and the tech-thralls themselves? Well most of them have their eyes replaced or plugged into crap which should enable them to see fine in darkness.

Custodes? Yep, they got optics in their helmets.

Solar Auxilia? Their gear was designed for hazardous environments, void fighting, etc. Yes their helmets have optics. Its safe to assume that infravisors are actually standard issue based on the fluff, even if they were at times treated as individual upgrades for characters.

Sisters of Silence? Almost assuredly have helmet optics.

Really, at this point the question really should be who *doent* have helmet optics.

And tanks, knights, titans? Yeah, all of them have optics. All of them.

cole1114 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

cole1114 wrote:Ooooh that vanguard change from a few changes back is BIG for night lords, statuses turning off scoring was bad for us. Our whole thing is causing statuses, then swooping in with high vanguard units. Raptors alone are vanguard (4) and losing out on that to get the +1WS woulda been sad.

Who cares? No more Night Fighting. 3.0 effectively ended the 8th Legion. Complete and total garbage.

Big disagree, we're very strong right now. Raptors are ridiculous, vanguard (4) with ws6 thunder hammers at I3 on a charge is very strong. Terrors are overpriced as always, but extremely good for setting off statuses. And contekar are a blender now that they combined glaives and blades into a best of both worlds. And the headsman's axe is a better thunder hammer as well. Out of everyone we have the best interaction with statuses, with our rite of war and high-vanguard-special-boys.

We also pair great with knights to cover up our weaknesses. An allied-in freeblade castigator to hit suppressive AND take out 2+ saves as well as a pack of warglaives for tanks, well, the math is easy there.

Blah, blah, blah. This just sounds like straight power gaming. Night Lords not being able to game Night Fighting is lame. I don't care if the Legion is strong besides. You do you.

I mean they do not always fight at night. I'm just really happy with where they are, both from a rules and narrative perspective. Glad the ranged bonus is gone, glad all our special units are actually worth taking. I'm happiest with my NL when they're doing weird coward gak, softening up the enemy for a big blow and retreating to prevent a counter.

No problems. If you enjoy the 3.0 rules for the 8th, enjoy them. I, personally don't. And our specialist units were perfectly useful in both 1.0 and 2.0, btw. But again, you do you.

chaos0xomega wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, nobody has night vision, thermal vision, etc.

Like seriously, the whole "we need night fighting rules" is ridiculously dumb and also nonsensical from a lore standpoint. Every marine is equipped with a helmet with built-in night vision optics which are usually described in the fluff as enabling them to see as if it were daylight.

Then you go to Mechanicum. You better beleive Automata are able to see in the dark just fine. Everything beyond tech-thralls pretty much would or should have that capability, and the tech-thralls themselves? Well most of them have their eyes replaced or plugged into crap which should enable them to see fine in darkness.

Custodes? Yep, they got optics in their helmets.

Solar Auxilia? Their gear was designed for hazardous environments, void fighting, etc. Yes their helmets have optics. Its safe to assume that infravisors are actually standard issue based on the fluff, even if they were at times treated as individual upgrades for characters.

Sisters of Silence? Almost assuredly have helmet optics.

Really, at this point the question really should be who *doent* have helmet optics.

And tanks, knights, titans? Yeah, all of them have optics. All of them.

I think that the point was that the 8th was specifically good at night fighting due to their having inherent night vision, which was increased by the very technology that you describe, thus making them the masters of the night. So that they were even better than other forces at night fighting. But, I get it. You're just defending 3 0. That's cool. If it makes you happy, play it.

arrived at our store today, a store that is on top of their game, to find out that GW delivered everything to the owner except the main HH rule books. No explanation. I wonder if they are doing this to try to shift a few more box sets. So frustrating.