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If they moved to an app based system then I'm 100% out...

I’m not a 40K player, so in one sense I don’t have a dog in this fight. I am however a massive fan of the setting. I read the novels, I love the art and I spend too much money on minis to add to my pile of shame.

I just can’t get into the game though. It looks, from the outside, to be hugely over complicated and just not fun because of that. I could possibly be tempted to collect a small army and play some games at a combat patrol level if they were to streamline the rules … a lot. As it is, I look at talk of warlord traits and stratagems and command points and think, naaaah!

EviscerationPlague wrote:
If it's not going to fix the awful IGOUGO system there's really no reason to release a new edition at this point.

There's never been real reason to release new edition. Except for the only reason that matters. £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

That's the only reason GW has and needs for any release. Simple as that.

Players at least can look for discounted marines + something else and new kits so it's not all bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
I'd heard some of these. It was always likely 9th would be my last edition, but if 10th is a hard reset, it's a virtual guarantee.
.

Totally with you here. I have zero intention of restarting a new codex purchase cycle. So that either means I just ride out 9th and skip 10th (totally fine by me, skipped all of 5th, 6th and most of 7th), or I’m getting codexes through other means.

Epic HH on the other hand, I’d be all in. It’s how I started.

Why did you start 9 then? Or 8? Or 7? Or basically any edition? As the one thing you can be sure of when you get into 40k is getting into ever continuing edition cycle.

Of course you don't have to accept it but...is this your first edition change? Because this should have been so obvious that if it's really such a deal breaker why did you start or even continue with the game...Why spend money and time to something you know(or at least should have known) has limited time?

Better to skip it.

Frankly based in history lots of people will say "I will quit" but only few actually does it. Frankly...Why are you waiting? Because whether it's 2023 or 2024 NEW EDITION WILL COME AND WITH IT NEW CODEXES!

If that's such a deal breaker for you stop spending money to 40k RIGHT NOW. It's the only logical step. Your money is going to get wasted in 2023 or 2024 latest(no way gw waits until 2025 for 10th ed. GW has shut down by then more likely)

If you don't enjoy 40k then obviously quitting it makes sense. What makes less sense is post-poning quitting saying "I will quit if GW does X" when GW is quaranteed doing X and soon. Why wait then? Well guess you can continue play but def don't spend money throwing it to what has limited life time left. We aren't even talking the 3 years you could expect when 9e came. Now it's only year left.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If they moved to an app based system then I'm 100% out...

You mean like what privateer press is doing to destroy warmachine even more with the MKIV release plans......but that's an entirely different discussion.

MonkeyBallistic wrote:I’m not a 40K player, so in one sense I don’t have a dog in this fight. I am however a massive fan of the setting. I read the novels, I love the art and I spend too much money on minis to add to my pile of shame.

I just can’t get into the game though. It looks, from the outside, to be hugely over complicated and just not fun because of that. I could possibly be tempted to collect a small army and play some games at a combat patrol level if they were to streamline the rules … a lot. As it is, I look at talk of warlord traits and stratagems and command points and think, naaaah!

In it's current incarnation you are correct on all points. the new lore (post cawl) isn't grim dark 40K. it doesn't feel correct for longtime fans of the setting.

The current game is a flaming dumpster fire in the opinions of many players like myself. it was never perfect, but it was often a very fun gaming experience.

Did a 5th ed game last week VS necrons, i lost by one point and it was a down the wire finish....and a heck of a fun game for both of us.

Frankly based in history lots of people will say "I will quit" but only few actually does it. Frankly...Why are you waiting? Because whether it's 2023 or 2024 NEW EDITION WILL COME AND WITH IT NEW CODEXES!

Indeed, nobody from GW is MAKING you play current edition. i quit the 40K train wreck years ago, but i have thousands of points of old models to play previous editions. for 40K it's 5th, for 30K it's 1.0, for infinity it is N2, for warmachine looks like i will be staying with MKIII. at least with classic battletech the core mechanics have not changed in 30 years and there is an entire book (a really thick one) of actual official optional rules players can choose to use or not in any combination at their preference.

Build communities of like minded gamers and you will enjoy the hobby.

Hmm, 10th ed hard reset is an interesting one. According to me they ran the 8th ed framework into the ground long before 9th ed came around, so they should know well ahead of time how dire the game was going to be throughout 9th ed, and therefore had enough time to plan and implement a reset for 10th ed. On the other hand that requires more insight than I am willing to attribute to the rules team, so I have my doubts that they're done defiling the carcass of the current rules framework just yet.

I guess for once I'll get to be genuinely surprised about the way the edition changes.

tneva82 wrote:

If that's such a deal breaker for you stop spending money to 40k RIGHT NOW. It's the only logical step. Your money is going to get wasted in 2023 or 2024 latest(no way gw waits until 2025 for 10th ed. GW has shut down by then more likely)

GW don't come and take all your stuff away if you don't buy the new rules. The only thing not opting into a new edition means is that you may not have rules for some new models. And you may have trouble with playing strangers.
You still own the game, it's still playable. What I find truly confusing is people who decide to give up on a game when a new edition comes out and they don't want it for some reason, despite only playing with friends.

I don't see GW doing a hard reset now, unless the sales of the system are already flagging now.

A stagnant economy isn't the time to needlessly rock the boat, and core rules switch is always a risk, no matter how good your position seems to be at the time.

I will be honest with you: a reset is probably the best that could happen to my local gaming circle.
Most people here have tuned back to "collect and paint".
In the last few years i played more games in Ed. 2-8 than 9.
Some even quit the hobby because " it is getting too much just to keep up".

I do not believe the rumor, though. GW seems quite happy with their general Design and looking at the Chaos Codex they probably will just try to reign in some of their BS.

I wouldn't mind a hard-re-set but only if GW can pump out the entire games worth of codex at 3 or 4 a month so that the game updates fast.

Which is the real key to big re-sets; not the amount of change, but the speed in with which we get updated rules to use armies.

But yeah I don't see a reason for GW to do that. Their rules have the same issues they've had for 30 years and they are no better nor worse really. There's just no major need for such a massive shake up of their core business and market.

we have seen a "reset" every 2 editions, so it is to be expected that 10th will be different, question is just how much it will change

and a simple reason for doing a big change is marketing, as you get more people in with something fresh and new rather than something were the existing players are just talking about the flaws
just looking at the hype 8th got just for being "this time we really try to make a good game", doing this again for no other reason than hype and get more new people than old ones dropping out

deano2099 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

If that's such a deal breaker for you stop spending money to 40k RIGHT NOW. It's the only logical step. Your money is going to get wasted in 2023 or 2024 latest(no way gw waits until 2025 for 10th ed. GW has shut down by then more likely)

GW don't come and take all your stuff away if you don't buy the new rules. The only thing not opting into a new edition means is that you may not have rules for some new models. And you may have trouble with playing strangers.

the only point in playing a GW game is simply because you can always find someone else to play because everyone plays it

if you don't play the current Edition, like everyone else is doing, there is no reason left to play 40k at all instead of something else
in that regard it is easier to get people using a different rule system than them staying with 9th because most people don't play it because they really liked it but because it was the Edition everyone plays

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't see GW doing a hard reset now, unless the sales of the system are already flagging now.

A stagnant economy isn't the time to needlessly rock the boat, and core rules switch is always a risk, no matter how good your position seems to be at the time.

I agree a hard reset would be absolutely stupid

BrianDavion wrote:
I agree a hard reset would be absolutely stupid

I think their new 6 months hamster wheel release rolette policy is more stupid.

Their "highway to hell speed" relases will sooner or later fall on their feets.

 kodos wrote:

the only point in playing a GW game is simply because you can always find someone else to play because everyone plays it

if you don't play the current Edition, like everyone else is doing, there is no reason left to play 40k at all instead of something else
in that regard it is easier to get people using a different rule system than them staying with 9th because most people don't play it because they really liked it but because it was the Edition everyone plays

Plenty of people just play it with friends/family. Much like with Magic, all the online discussion is focussed around club play and tournament play when the vast majority of games are played smaller scale at home.

Also this becomes a circular argument - one of the others reasons to play the GW game is you already have the stuff, because you bought into it. Which was the point we were addressing in the first place. You're saying buying GW stuff is a waste of money if you don't keep up - but that in itself is a reason for continuing to play the version you like/own.

10th edition just around the corner feels so rushed. I feel bad for all the armies getting their codexes only to see them glassed when a new edition rolls out.

I wish their management wasn't so short sighted so blind to the effects of codex & edition churn when it comes to customer retention.

Mechanically, the game is fine, I think. What it needs is more fine-tuning and a reduction in absurdity.

For example, I like the idea of stratagems, but the reality of stratagems is frustrating. I agree that there are way too many, and a lot of them are so niche that they never see use (for example, having stratagems that only work on the Mutalith, when the Mutalith itself rarely sees the table).

The other thing the game needs is to find a way to nerf Alpha Strike. I'm not a fan of just reducing CPs for everyone, because some armies need to spend their CPs before the battle. Maybe some kind of Fog of War rule that reduces the lethality of shooting on the first turn?

deano2099 wrote:

Plenty of people just play it with friends/family. Much like with Magic, all the online discussion is focussed around club play and tournament play when the vast majority of games are played smaller scale at home.

Also this becomes a circular argument - one of the others reasons to play the GW game is you already have the stuff, because you bought into it. Which was the point we were addressing in the first place. You're saying buying GW stuff is a waste of money if you don't keep up - but that in itself is a reason for continuing to play the version you like/own.

no one is forcing you to play only GW rules just because you have GW models, and the amount of people who really like the GW rules is low at best

and one reason MGT is different is because the rules are still the same, season/cards change but not the core rules so playing at home and buying new stuff from time to time works while for 40k, if you don't buy the new Edition, you cannot play with the new stuff because it does not work with your game

and at this point, why should you stop buying the models you like just to play mediocre rules instead of going with the new Edition or a different game

and after 20 years with GW games, I can tell you that the number of people who stick with a current Edition is not existent. there are usually 3 things happening, either buy into the new Edition, drop out, or going back to play a much older Edition
there is a reason why we see hype for 2nd or 5th Edition of 40k, or things like OPR, while there are no large "we play 8th at home" groups

They Problem is that GW is listening too much what the Tournament Community wants instead of real hobbists who want to enjoy the game.

The 9th Edition is a complete chaotic mess.

RazorEdge wrote:
They Problem is that GW is listening too much what the Tournament Community wants instead of real hobbists who want to enjoy the game.

The 9th Edition is a complete chaotic mess.

Come on dude. Don’t be That Guy. Nobody is playing it wrong. No one is enjoying it wrong. No one is a “real” hobbyist for enjoying certain aspects over others.

 kodos wrote:
we have seen a "reset" every 2 editions, so it is to be expected that 10th will be different, question is just how much it will change

No, we haven't - 2nd, 3rd and 8th are the only reset editions to date, and I could see people arguing with me on 2nd.

deano2099 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

If that's such a deal breaker for you stop spending money to 40k RIGHT NOW. It's the only logical step. Your money is going to get wasted in 2023 or 2024 latest(no way gw waits until 2025 for 10th ed. GW has shut down by then more likely)

GW don't come and take all your stuff away if you don't buy the new rules. The only thing not opting into a new edition means is that you may not have rules for some new models. And you may have trouble with playing strangers.
You still own the game, it's still playable. What I find truly confusing is people who decide to give up on a game when a new edition comes out and they don't want it for some reason, despite only playing with friends.

Oh sure you can play but if like 99% switch to new edition and you are left with maybe one or two player to play older edition that isn't much of help either.

but sure that's also another option for some.

But not having seen FB 5th ed or 6th ed being played around here expecting that to be common solution that works for most. So back to play current or simply forget gw games from the get-go as edition changes are quaranteed so if you don't want that your options are get out ASAP or for very minor part stick with older edition

RazorEdge wrote:
They Problem is that GW is listening too much what the Tournament Community wants instead of real hobbists who want to enjoy the game.

The 9th Edition is a complete chaotic mess.

Most tournament community (which are, btw, just as "real" hobbists as you and me, despite your opinions) bloody hated 9th Edition for most of it's run, due to the fact most of it was taken up by a parade of blatantly broken Codices, extreme and blatant Power Creep, and constant sweeping changes. Like, literally most of 9th's run was taken up by the newest hotness OP Codex having an 70-80% winrate, before getting beaten to death by nerfs and having a newer, even more OP and blatantly broken Codex arriving and stomping all tournaments all over again.

It really was not a fun time to play as a tournament player.

 Overread wrote:
I wouldn't mind a hard-re-set but only if GW can pump out the entire games worth of codex at 3 or 4 a month so that the game updates fast.

Which is the real key to big re-sets; not the amount of change, but the speed in with which we get updated rules to use armies.

But yeah I don't see a reason for GW to do that. Their rules have the same issues they've had for 30 years and they are no better nor worse really. There's just no major need for such a massive shake up of their core business and market.

Hard reset, soft reset. Not much difference. 9e came and sure old codexes...worked...but they were still in trouble.

And they aren't crazy enough to think people can buy that many armies per month so spread the focus more so 3-4 armies per month just ain't happening


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
we have seen a "reset" every 2 editions, so it is to be expected that 10th will be different, question is just how much it will change

3, 8. That's...Not "every two editions".

4, 5, 6, 7, 9 were not resets. You could say 2 was reset of a kind but of course no codexes in 1st.

 Dysartes wrote:

 kodos wrote:
we have seen a "reset" every 2 editions, so it is to be expected that 10th will be different, question is just how much it will change

No, we haven't - 2nd, 3rd and 8th are the only reset editions to date, and I could see people arguing with me on 2nd.

depends now on what we consider a reset, and larger update on the core that meant you cannot use the old armies without an update as well would be a reset

and that GW did not update all army books after a reset caused problems in the past aka 6th Edition were they missed to give old armies Anti-Aircraft weapons (not having an "Index" does not mean there was no reset) or were the same Marine weapons had different profiles because one Codex got an update and not the others

I consider 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th being a reset, some bigger than the others with 3rd and 8th being the big ones and the others more of a soft reset

 kodos wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 kodos wrote:
we have seen a "reset" every 2 editions, so it is to be expected that 10th will be different, question is just how much it will change

No, we haven't - 2nd, 3rd and 8th are the only reset editions to date, and I could see people arguing with me on 2nd.

depends now on what we consider a reset, and larger update on the core that meant you cannot use the old armies without an update as well would be a reset

and that GW did not update all army books after a reset caused problems in the past aka 6th Edition were they missed to give old armies Anti-Aircraft weapons (not having an "Index" does not mean there was no reset) or were the same Marine weapons had different profiles because one Codex got an update and not the others

I consider 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th being a reset, some bigger than the others with 3rd and 8th being the big ones and the others more of a soft reset

Yeah. And codexes of previous edition were invalidated on 2nd to 3rd and 7th to 8.

4, 5, 6 and 7 you still were able to use old codexes. That's not reset.

and you can still use your 3rd Edition Codex in 9th
just doesn't work well, so there is no reason to ever call it a reset

specially 6th was a clusterfeth for old books, and I guess people haven't played if they say it worked fine for old books

Eh with stats and rules that don't work...nope. can't use. Units can't move, bolt pistols make everything save on 2+(ap5 so opponent gets +5 to saves), nowhere usr's needed...

Sorry but you are way off. 3 to 4, 5 to 6 codexes worked. 7 to 8 didn't. You are claiming car is same as boat as they move forward

 kodos wrote:
and you can still use your 3rd Edition Codex in 9th
just doesn't work well, so there is no reason to ever call it a reset

specially 6th was a clusterfeth for old books, and I guess people haven't played if they say it worked fine for old books

I don't think you can, technically. 3rd didn't have a Movement stat, as I recall. And still use BS and WS stats instead of rolls. I get your point, but maybe not the greatest example.

Yep it just wouldn't work. Too much missing rules, units literally unable to move, best ork boy killer lascannon(saves on 5+ vs say bolter vs which ork saves on 2+). Just too much stuff inoperative.

Oh and grot with ws/b2 better than marine captain. Grot hits on 2's vs 5+

On that logic 3 and 8 weren't recets either...so we get back to no resets ever.

Oh and how you can use 3e codex in 9e but not 5e to 6e. Or how codex compatibility has zero meaning on whether it's reset or not...

He's just making his own definition of reset to try to backpedal on his incorrect statement. He fears having to admit being wrong so much he rather doubles down on being wrong trying to twist him being right. Lol.

A hard reset so early is kind of brutal considering the fact that some factions will have a few months with their new codex before a new edition hits.

However, the game is very bloated right now so I can imagine the designers looking at it and thinking: feth it, burn it down and restart. I know also that people were talking about 40k going to Power Levels. Who knows, maybe that is GW's final plan and they just want to reset to put it into action.

In a way there has been kind of a soft reset in AoS 3.0 with things scaled down from 2.0. It has been a nice surprise and I imagine they want to do something similar to 10th, but with 9th being so overburdened they might not have the option of scaling it down without creating a schism between the codexes of the two editions. Also, with Horus Heresy and AoS 3.0 you see a lot of generic reactions available to all armies and maybe 40k will get something similar.

I would also add that the new models and cadence in 40k has been rather brutal over the past year and I am just tired of keeping up with it; whereas in 3.0 of AoS I am still having fun as we are mostly just getting new book updates.

Personally I am just a bit tired. I just want to relax and have some fun games.

 aphyon wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:If they moved to an app based system then I'm 100% out...

You mean like what privateer press is doing to destroy warmachine even more with the MKIV release plans......but that's an entirely different discussion.

MonkeyBallistic wrote:I’m not a 40K player, so in one sense I don’t have a dog in this fight. I am however a massive fan of the setting. I read the novels, I love the art and I spend too much money on minis to add to my pile of shame.

I just can’t get into the game though. It looks, from the outside, to be hugely over complicated and just not fun because of that. I could possibly be tempted to collect a small army and play some games at a combat patrol level if they were to streamline the rules … a lot. As it is, I look at talk of warlord traits and stratagems and command points and think, naaaah!

In it's current incarnation you are correct on all points. the new lore (post cawl) isn't grim dark 40K. it doesn't feel correct for longtime fans of the setting.

The current game is a flaming dumpster fire in the opinions of many players like myself. it was never perfect, but it was often a very fun gaming experience.

Did a 5th ed game last week VS necrons, i lost by one point and it was a down the wire finish....and a heck of a fun game for both of us.

Frankly based in history lots of people will say "I will quit" but only few actually does it. Frankly...Why are you waiting? Because whether it's 2023 or 2024 NEW EDITION WILL COME AND WITH IT NEW CODEXES!

Indeed, nobody from GW is MAKING you play current edition. i quit the 40K train wreck years ago, but i have thousands of points of old models to play previous editions. for 40K it's 5th, for 30K it's 1.0, for infinity it is N2, for warmachine looks like i will be staying with MKIII. at least with classic battletech the core mechanics have not changed in 30 years and there is an entire book (a really thick one) of actual official optional rules players can choose to use or not in any combination at their preference.

Build communities of like minded gamers and you will enjoy the hobby.

Yep, only way to not lose your mind playing 40K is Oldhammer. Corporate storytelling (introduction of Primaris) in combination with dumbed down rules (shooting with antennas through all terrain pieces) was the last nail in the coffin for 40K.