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I only play with finished miniatures but don't hold others to my own standards (it's just simpler that way).

I come from the camp of never painting but one day around the start of the pandemic I just sat down and started doing it. Model by model was finished and eventually I had enough to field fully painted army lists and from there I never looked back. The strongest painting motivator I ever get is when there's an upcoming game and I want to try out something new.

I still don't really enjoy painting in itself but the sight of having things done makes it endlessly worthwhile. It's a bit of work for years of enjoyment afterwards. Others have also been inspired to get painting when they see my completed armies on the field and I've been hosting painting days in place of gaming. Company while painting can do wonders for productivity and could be just the thing to break the barrier.

 Just Tony wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about instead of "TV, video games, and other activities" we say "Being a dad, raising a kid, being a supportive partner in a relationship, and making time for self improvement".

See it's not hard to rationalize when the well isn't poisoned.

I enjoy being a good father more than having a kick butt Shadow Keepers 2k list.

"Choose to spend the time elsewhere" is significantly different than "don't have time". I question the misnomer.

I also will point out that as a 3rd shifter I sacrifice sleep to fit my wife and kids into my life. I'm stuck at work on my breaks anyway, might as well paint there.

You claim understanding, and yet continue to make incredible assumptions regarding other people's lives. I am choosing to spend time elsewhere, but at the same time I don't impose strict rules on others to have the "privilege" to play with my army. I didn't search all of your posts, but I presume you are in the "Players must paint their models" camp of this thread? All I am saying, boiled down, is that in order to enjoy this game with me, I will give you the choice to put as much or as little work into the "hobby" part of it as you like. Show up with black based models or flat grey, we can have just as much fun as if you showed up with a Duncan Rhodes level paint job. Just as long as you don't paint any detestable symbols or iconography on your models.

Cebalrai wrote:
I only play with finished miniatures but don't hold others to my own standards (it's just simpler that way).

I come from the camp of never painting but one day around the start of the pandemic I just sat down and started doing it. Model by model was finished and eventually I had enough to field fully painted army lists and from there I never looked back. The strongest painting motivator I ever get is when there's an upcoming game and I want to try out something new.

I still don't really enjoy painting in itself but the sight of having things done makes it endlessly worthwhile. It's a bit of work for years of enjoyment afterwards. Others have also been inspired to get painting when they see my completed armies on the field and I've been hosting painting days in place of gaming. Company while painting can do wonders for productivity and could be just the thing to break the barrier.

I am the same way. Once I finally got a whole army painted (Tau), it was just so much more enjoyable to play with that I will only put fully-painted armies on the board. And then when I did my second army (Sisters), I was better at painting, so now I am going back to my Tau to fix them up, since they are no longer up to snuff for my standards for myself.

Also concur that painting socially can be a great help. Especially when you are learning. Getting tips from people I was painting with also really helped me with techniques that make painting much more enjoyable. For example, I had a friend tell me about drybrushing, and now it is my favorite thing to do on my models. So easy! So amazing to look at! Yet not something I would have ever thought of myself.

I do not consider myself a good painter by any means. While I would not say I am terrible I am probably at least below average. I paint my models at this point only because of the "10 points for battle ready" rule that GW forced on the community because I want to play as fairly as I possibly can and do not want to be gaining 10 points in a matched play game when I shouldn't be. I primarily "paint to play" and don't "play to paint."

While I do not enjoy painting at all and do not really want to do it, I am fine playing others who do not have painted or only primed models. I also usually give them the battle ready points if their army is at least all primed. I just like getting games in even if the army on the other side is all gray plastic or black or whatever other mono-color. I am glad to play a beautifully painted army, but while I hold myself to a standard of at least having my stuff painted to "tabletop standard" (still just a three color rule to me most of the time) I do not hold others to that same standard.

I actually prefer building in this hobby much more than painting. But playing is why I am here pretty much!

i prefer my opponents to at least make an effort.

i get annoyed if i'm playing against an army that's unpainted, or only primed.

it breaks any sense of immersion i can get out of the game, it makes recognizing wargear more difficult from across the table, etc.

i'm don't expect great fancy paint jobs, but a main uniform color, skin tone, and an accent color, that cover all of the easily visible model is all i need to appreciate someone's effort.

if one or two units in a 2000pt guard army aren't fully painted for example it's whatever, but two units in a 2000pt custodes army is going to be a significant portion of the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cebalrai wrote:
I only play with finished miniatures but don't hold others to my own standards (it's just simpler that way).

I come from the camp of never painting but one day around the start of the pandemic I just sat down and started doing it. Model by model was finished and eventually I had enough to field fully painted army lists and from there I never looked back. The strongest painting motivator I ever get is when there's an upcoming game and I want to try out something new.

I still don't really enjoy painting in itself but the sight of having things done makes it endlessly worthwhile. It's a bit of work for years of enjoyment afterwards. Others have also been inspired to get painting when they see my completed armies on the field and I've been hosting painting days in place of gaming. Company while painting can do wonders for productivity and could be just the thing to break the barrier.

i am much the same, but different at the same time lol.

my BA successors have white helmets and shoulder pads, i dread painting the white, but it looks so good! i hate painting the white.
same time, guard require so many models, that painting them gets very tedious very fast, especially since i had a lot of white on them, until changing over to a camo paint scheme lol.

but in the end it looks so much better to have a fully painted army on the table, and when both armies are painted decently it helps me get immersed in the story of the battle as it unfolds...also my gf gets mad if i buy new kits, when i have unpainted and unassembled models ever since she watched a pile of shame video with me one time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Also.. are we really tossing around words like "suffering" and "sadism" about painting miniatures? I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea, but it's at worse an unpleasant task.

an unpleasant task that takes a lot of your hobby time... And for people that don't paint much, it takes them even longer (yes, even when painting with contrast)

Oh, it's unpleasant and it takes time! I see we're back to the mythical gamer who literally has exactly enough hobby time to play 40k, but zero hobby time to paint. What a strange schedule that person must have!

... what?
high school, college, jobs, most everyone I've known can manage one night a week (or every two weeks) to indulge a hobby.
Consistently having hours every evening to devote to painting? Not so much. And that's before getting into the mood/mindset to paint. And after the hours devoted to model assembly.

That's a perfectly normal schedule for everyone I've ever gamed with.

sorry, but i disagree. it doesn't have to take hours of painting to have a painting session.

often when my gf has an online work meeting, they last roughly an hour, and i'll sit at my hobby table behind her out of the camera sight and spend the last 10-20 minutes of her meeting painting, and listening to the fancy science talk they do.

i am cleaning up a house to be sold, renovating my current house, running my own business, maintaining my romantic, and familial relationship, a full time college student, a parent to two very needy damn near codependent fur babies, and have to find time to exercise as well for my business, but i can still find time to paint at for a little bit, at least once a week.

I love the people that complain about "breaking immersion" as though the rules were immersive to begin with LOL

Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

Yes but I’m sure those at 10 will double-down

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

Yes but I’m sure those at 10 will double-down

Not only that, but in a few pages, they'll start tossing around terms like WAAC and CAAC, or Elitist!

In 30 pages it will naturally evolve into it's ultimate form: Accusations of Fascist Politics and Liberalism. At which point the mods MIGHT old yeller it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about instead of "TV, video games, and other activities" we say "Being a dad, raising a kid, being a supportive partner in a relationship, and making time for self improvement".

See it's not hard to rationalize when the well isn't poisoned.

I enjoy being a good father more than having a kick butt Shadow Keepers 2k list.

"Choose to spend the time elsewhere" is significantly different than "don't have time". I question the misnomer.

I also will point out that as a 3rd shifter I sacrifice sleep to fit my wife and kids into my life. I'm stuck at work on my breaks anyway, might as well paint there.

You claim understanding, and yet continue to make incredible assumptions regarding other people's lives.

How so? I assume there's mutability in schedule, and that's rarely NOT the case. In fact, you haven't refuted that notion.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am choosing to spend time elsewhere, but at the same time I don't impose strict rules on others to have the "privilege" to play with my army.

Where did I EVER say that? Don't confuse me with CadianSgtBob...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I didn't search all of your posts, but I presume you are in the "Players must paint their models" camp of this thread?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, you didn't bother to check before making assumptions. Funny, since you just LECTURED ME about making assumptions.


But just to clarify, and take special note: My issue isn't people CHOOSING not to paint their miniatures per se, but more that the goalpost was moved pretty much immediately as it started as "BuT i HaVe No TiMe To PaInT mY mInIs!!!!@!1!" and is a misnomer at best.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
All I am saying, boiled down, is that in order to enjoy this game with me, I will give you the choice to put as much or as little work into the "hobby" part of it as you like.

For the most part I agree, unless you have someone who is abusing the subfaction rules by never committing to any indicator on their force. THAT gets old and I can understand apprehensions to playing against someone like that.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Show up with black based models or flat grey, we can have just as much fun as if you showed up with a Duncan Rhodes level paint job.

Mostly agree, up until the point that the scrum in the middle involves multiple units and suddenly you can't tell who is from where. Never underestimate the capacity for reasonable people to fudge lines when presented with the opportunity. THAT one just dawned on me, as I remembered previous experience with "stealth forces".

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just as long as you don't paint any detestable symbols or iconography on your models.

Like the Ultramarines symbol? jk, if that wasn't obvious...

10. I’ve no interest in playing with, or against, unpainted minis. Plus I find the self-imposed rule of “I can’t play with it til it’s painted” is a good way of a) focusing my hobby projects a bit and b) dissuading me from buying ludicrous amounts of stuff. Requiring the same of opponents also seems to reduce the likelihood of playing against someone using the latest meta-chasing/net listed flavour of the month, which isn’t something that really interests me from a gaming perspective.

If people want to play with unpainted minis, part-painted minis, or even just little cardboard tokens or whatever, then all power to them; people have every right to approach their hobby and play their games in whatever way they enjoy. It’s just not, personally, something I want to spend my limited hobbying time on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Despite my above reply, I have every sympathy with anyone who doesn’t feel inclined to paint their models, from having other priorities with limited hobby time, to simply not wanting to. It’s *your* hobby; approach it however *you* want. And I hope you have a very nice time playing games with people whose enjoyment of the game *isn’t* tied to any sort of painting requirement. I just happen to have a differing view of this stuff and that’s absolutely fine because it’s just a silly, fun spacemen game.

 Nazrak wrote:
10. I’ve no interest in playing with, or against, unpainted minis. Plus I find the self-imposed rule of “I can’t play with it til it’s painted” is a good way of a) focusing my hobby projects a bit and b) dissuading me from buying ludicrous amounts of stuff. Requiring the same of opponents also seems to reduce the likelihood of playing against someone using the latest meta-chasing/net listed flavour of the month, which isn’t something that really interests me from a gaming perspective.

If people want to play with unpainted minis, part-painted minis, or even just little cardboard tokens or whatever, then all power to them; people have every right to approach their hobby and play their games in whatever way they enjoy. It’s just not, personally, something I want to spend my limited hobbying time on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Despite my above reply, I have every sympathy with anyone who doesn’t feel inclined to paint their models, from having other priorities with limited hobby time, to simply not wanting to. It’s *your* hobby; approach it however *you* want. And I hope you have a very nice time playing games with people whose enjoyment of the game *isn’t* tied to any sort of painting requirement. I just happen to have a differing view of this stuff and that’s absolutely fine because it’s just a silly, fun spacemen game.

This is literally the only rational argument to the "must paint" side.

Essentially, painting makes me happy, and if you don't, that's your choice.

And in reference to the detestable iconography, I wasn't referring to the UM, but Mr. Reece painting a Totenkopf on his Knight, and then verbally attacking anyone who stated that it's a nazi symbol.

 Nazrak wrote:
10. I’ve no interest in playing with, or against, unpainted minis. Plus I find the self-imposed rule of “I can’t play with it til it’s painted” is a good way of a) focusing my hobby projects a bit and b) dissuading me from buying ludicrous amounts of stuff. Requiring the same of opponents also seems to reduce the likelihood of playing against someone using the latest meta-chasing/net listed flavour of the month, which isn’t something that really interests me from a gaming perspective.

If people want to play with unpainted minis, part-painted minis, or even just little cardboard tokens or whatever, then all power to them; people have every right to approach their hobby and play their games in whatever way they enjoy. It’s just not, personally, something I want to spend my limited hobbying time on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Despite my above reply, I have every sympathy with anyone who doesn’t feel inclined to paint their models, from having other priorities with limited hobby time, to simply not wanting to. It’s *your* hobby; approach it however *you* want. And I hope you have a very nice time playing games with people whose enjoyment of the game *isn’t* tied to any sort of painting requirement. I just happen to have a differing view of this stuff and that’s absolutely fine because it’s just a silly, fun spacemen game.

This is a reasonable response. Again the only issue is with people who deride anyone who can’t or won’t paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

And in reference to the detestable iconography, I wasn't referring to the UM, but Mr. Reece painting a Totenkopf on his Knight, and then verbally attacking anyone who stated that it's a nazi symbol.

That’s a whole can of worms we should probably leave closed.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It’s not part of the hobby I enjoy. You can’t force someone to participate in something they don’t want to. It’d be like forcing someone who only builds the models to play the game.

I can't force you, but I can certainly judge you for it. And I can judge you for posting "look at the size of my wallet" and bragging about how you don't bother to paint models a lot of us would kill to have.

Screw you buddy.

Looking forward to your inevitable ban, thanks.

I am oddly with Bob on this one. Enjoy another ignore. You want to play a card game with chits? Not my hobby. If I met you in a hobby shop, I wouldn't speak with you twice. As in real life then... go your chitty way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

Yes but I’m sure those at 10 will double-down

Yeah I voted 8. There is a place for trying new things, testing wargear before modeling to be permanent. But jeez, fine. This is not a CCG. For me, it is an interactive model trainset and should look and feel like a realistic sci fantasy battlefield. Grey plastic chits? Why bother with terrain, then? I suppose this is all cardboard taped to empty beer cans? Yeah, no. Not at all the experience that I am after, and anyone who is satisfied with such is simply not doing what i want to do. Offending that I wont spend my time with you? Yeah, well, deal with it. I have no respect for your activity. You waste my time. You disrespect my hobby by expecting that I should respect you enough to waste my time with you. Nah... you are the ones "doubling down" on laziness and lack of talent. Wont develop new skills cuz dont like to paint? Fine. Play MtG with grey plastic chits with someone else. Offended? I could not care less, as if a leech didnt like the taste of my blood. Lates!

Sorry none of you have a point with immersion. "Why bother with terrain" yeah WHY bother when the terrain rules suck?

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Sorry none of you have a point with immersion. "Why bother with terrain" yeah WHY bother when the terrain rules suck?

You? Maybe.

Other people will think differently.

I can work around dodgy rules with my group, I can't work around dodgy looking terrain.

 jeff white wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It’s not part of the hobby I enjoy. You can’t force someone to participate in something they don’t want to. It’d be like forcing someone who only builds the models to play the game.

I can't force you, but I can certainly judge you for it. And I can judge you for posting "look at the size of my wallet" and bragging about how you don't bother to paint models a lot of us would kill to have.

Screw you buddy.

Looking forward to your inevitable ban, thanks.

I am oddly with Bob on this one. Enjoy another ignore. You want to play a card game with chits? Not my hobby. If I met you in a hobby shop, I wouldn't speak with you twice. As in real life then... go your chitty way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

Yes but I’m sure those at 10 will double-down

Yeah I voted 8. There is a place for trying new things, testing wargear before modeling to be permanent. But jeez, fine. This is not a CCG. For me, it is an interactive model trainset and should look and feel like a realistic sci fantasy battlefield. Grey plastic chits? Why bother with terrain, then? I suppose this is all cardboard taped to empty beer cans? Yeah, no. Not at all the experience that I am after, and anyone who is satisfied with such is simply not doing what i want to do. Offending that I wont spend my time with you? Yeah, well, deal with it. I have no respect for your activity. You waste my time. You disrespect my hobby by expecting that I should respect you enough to waste my time with you. Nah... you are the ones "doubling down" on laziness and lack of talent. Wont develop new skills cuz dont like to paint? Fine. Play MtG with grey plastic chits with someone else. Offended? I could not care less, as if a leech didnt like the taste of my blood. Lates!

Wow, this is almost cartoonishly pretentious

Deadnight wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Sorry none of you have a point with immersion. "Why bother with terrain" yeah WHY bother when the terrain rules suck?

You? Maybe.

Other people will think differently.

I can work around dodgy rules with my group, I can't work around dodgy looking terrain.

Dodgy rules break immersion more than a Grey model. Or do you think forge the narrative works when the players are taking turns choosing a unit to fight in melee LOL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeff white wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It’s not part of the hobby I enjoy. You can’t force someone to participate in something they don’t want to. It’d be like forcing someone who only builds the models to play the game.

I can't force you, but I can certainly judge you for it. And I can judge you for posting "look at the size of my wallet" and bragging about how you don't bother to paint models a lot of us would kill to have.

Screw you buddy.

Looking forward to your inevitable ban, thanks.

I am oddly with Bob on this one. Enjoy another ignore. You want to play a card game with chits? Not my hobby. If I met you in a hobby shop, I wouldn't speak with you twice. As in real life then... go your chitty way.

Imagine being so mentally unstable and weak you have to block people that play with unpainted models.

 jeff white wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It’s not part of the hobby I enjoy. You can’t force someone to participate in something they don’t want to. It’d be like forcing someone who only builds the models to play the game.

I can't force you, but I can certainly judge you for it. And I can judge you for posting "look at the size of my wallet" and bragging about how you don't bother to paint models a lot of us would kill to have.

Screw you buddy.

Looking forward to your inevitable ban, thanks.

I am oddly with Bob on this one. Enjoy another ignore. You want to play a card game with chits? Not my hobby. If I met you in a hobby shop, I wouldn't speak with you twice. As in real life then... go your chitty way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Yay! over half of people in the poll don't care. That's cool.

Yes but I’m sure those at 10 will double-down

Yeah I voted 8. There is a place for trying new things, testing wargear before modeling to be permanent. But jeez, fine. This is not a CCG. For me, it is an interactive model trainset and should look and feel like a realistic sci fantasy battlefield. Grey plastic chits? Why bother with terrain, then? I suppose this is all cardboard taped to empty beer cans? Yeah, no. Not at all the experience that I am after, and anyone who is satisfied with such is simply not doing what i want to do. Offending that I wont spend my time with you? Yeah, well, deal with it. I have no respect for your activity. You waste my time. You disrespect my hobby by expecting that I should respect you enough to waste my time with you. Nah... you are the ones "doubling down" on laziness and lack of talent. Wont develop new skills cuz dont like to paint? Fine. Play MtG with grey plastic chits with someone else. Offended? I could not care less, as if a leech didnt like the taste of my blood. Lates!

maybe you're just a little fired up because one or two people have been douchey, but it seems a little douchey not to respect people who don't paint. i want my opponents to have painted armies as well, and play on a table with decent looking terrain, i'm on that same level with you, but i can still respect people who just don't want to paint their models. doesn't mean i will play with them though.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dodgy rules break immersion more than a Grey model.

Hence 'I can work around dodgy rules with my group'.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Or do you think forge the narrative works when the players are taking turns choosing a unit to fight in melee LOL

Sure, it's called 'abstraction'. I mean, ttgs are limited systems - there's only so much they can do. I happily cut some slack. At least nicely painted models are something else to discuss while rolling our eyes at silly rules.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Imagine being so mentally unstable and weak you have to block people that play with unpainted models.

'Mentally unstable and weak'? Seriously, not cool. Dial down the insults and slurs relating to peoples mental health and throwing them at people, eh?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
10. I’ve no interest in playing with, or against, unpainted minis. Plus I find the self-imposed rule of “I can’t play with it til it’s painted” is a good way of a) focusing my hobby projects a bit and b) dissuading me from buying ludicrous amounts of stuff. Requiring the same of opponents also seems to reduce the likelihood of playing against someone using the latest meta-chasing/net listed flavour of the month, which isn’t something that really interests me from a gaming perspective.

If people want to play with unpainted minis, part-painted minis, or even just little cardboard tokens or whatever, then all power to them; people have every right to approach their hobby and play their games in whatever way they enjoy. It’s just not, personally, something I want to spend my limited hobbying time on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Despite my above reply, I have every sympathy with anyone who doesn’t feel inclined to paint their models, from having other priorities with limited hobby time, to simply not wanting to. It’s *your* hobby; approach it however *you* want. And I hope you have a very nice time playing games with people whose enjoyment of the game *isn’t* tied to any sort of painting requirement. I just happen to have a differing view of this stuff and that’s absolutely fine because it’s just a silly, fun spacemen game.

This is literally the only rational argument to the "must paint" side.

Essentially, painting makes me happy, and if you don't, that's your choice.

And in reference to the detestable iconography, I wasn't referring to the UM, but Mr. Reece painting a Totenkopf on his Knight, and then verbally attacking anyone who stated that it's a nazi symbol.

We all knew what you meant. Now, look up context in the dictionary and j/k on whatever resource covers internet/text shorthand...

I seriously doubt most players are "immersed" in their games. "Immersion" means that you see yourself on the battle field and that you are acting out your fantasy on the gaming table. I somehow doubt that people are really doing that while at the same time firing their tanks turret weapon at someone when the only part of their tank that can "see" that target is the last millimeter of their front left tread. Likewise I fail so see how they can, and do, fire their left hull mounted sponson at a target that is only visible to the vehicle's right side. But that's OK it doesn't interfere with their immersion. It's just the horror of seeing unpainted/underpainted model across from them that destroys their fantasy in their toy soldier games.

I have no problem with you wanting to use the finest paint jobs you can get on your figures. If you don't want to play against a grey army then that's fine. It's a hobby and everyone has different levels of enjoyment. But at least man up and admit that in this game of toy soldiers you're acting like a child and that's all there is to it. Don't try to hide behind a flimsy excuse like "Your unpainted minis totally destroy my immersion in the game".

Just for transparency- I started playing at a store that allowed you to use your models unpainted for 3 weeks. After that it was expected that they would at least meet the 3 color level of painting. I still abide by that standard even though I no longer go to that store and that was 20 years ago. I don't have so much of my ego invested in my toys that I would turn down playing someone due to the paint status of their models.

Deadnight wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dodgy rules break immersion more than a Grey model.

Hence 'I can work around dodgy rules with my group'.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Or do you think forge the narrative works when the players are taking turns choosing a unit to fight in melee LOL

Sure, it's called 'abstraction'. I mean, ttgs are limited systems - there's only so much they can do. I happily cut some slack. At least nicely painted models are something else to discuss while rolling our eyes at silly rules.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Imagine being so mentally unstable and weak you have to block people that play with unpainted models.

'Mentally unstable and weak'? Seriously, not cool. Dial down the insults and slurs relating to peoples mental health and throwing them at people, eh?

You can't abstract Marines in Grey armor but you can abstract units taking turns when to fight? LOL okay.

Also yeah, if they're gonna block someone because they aren't painting their models, that's mentally weak. That's beyond even just blocking someone with a different opinion.

If it's not painted to my own satisfaction then I'm not fielding it.

I don't mind a couple of unpainted or basecoated models in my opponent's army, but I don't like playing against 'grey knights' armies.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I seriously doubt most players are "immersed" in their games. "Immersion" means that you see yourself on the battle field and that you are acting out your fantasy on the gaming table. I somehow doubt that people are really doing that while at the same time firing their tanks turret weapon at someone when the only part of their tank that can "see" that target is the last millimeter of their front left tread. Likewise I fail so see how they can, and do, fire their left hull mounted sponson at a target that is only visible to the vehicle's right side. But that's OK it doesn't interfere with their immersion. It's just the horror of seeing unpainted/underpainted model across from them that destroys their fantasy in their toy soldier games.

I have no problem with you wanting to use the finest paint jobs you can get on your figures. If you don't want to play against a grey army then that's fine. It's a hobby and everyone has different levels of enjoyment. But at least man up and admit that in this game of toy soldiers you're acting like a child and that's all there is to it. Don't try to hide behind a flimsy excuse like "Your unpainted minis totally destroy my immersion in the game".

Just for transparency- I started playing at a store that allowed you to use your models unpainted for 3 weeks. After that it was expected that they would at least meet the 3 color level of painting. I still abide by that standard even though I no longer go to that store and that was 20 years ago. I don't have so much of my ego invested in my toys that I would turn down playing someone due to the paint status of their models.

the sponson question is pretty simple, the tank pivots 180 degrees...

how did that store really enforce that rule.
employee "oh those marines havent been painted for 3 weeks, can't use them."
customer "this is a whole new squad you see, and this is the first time i've used them."
employee "...nuh-uh."

i love how people try to come off as understanding and then jump to ad hominem attacks...good job.

Do people actually refuse pick-up games at their FLGS because their prospective opponent has unpainted models? I have certainly gamed at stores (mostly GW) where the game room policy was only painted models allowed. Heck, the GW near me circa 2003 required that the model's eyes must be painted or no play. Tournies, as well, often have a painting policy. That is different - in these cases the venue is putting a rule in place. I just can't see turning down a pickup game due to models being unpainted. Outrageous proxies? Different story. Lack of paint? Nope - lets roll some dice!

I do very much prefer to play with painted miniatures - this is a miniatures game after all. Part of my gaming experience is indeed the visual spectacle. Rules abstractions do not detract from that. The Age of Sigmar code of conduct goes so far as to state that we should ask our opponent's permission to use unpainted models. But to point-blank refuse a game over lack of paint when the venue has no such policy?

If it's not fully painted and the bases are not decorated with at least something plain like sand, you just don't get 10vp in all of our local regular games. If you just spray the minis and make 'eye dots', it won't do. You got to make your efforts noticeable. But it's not really much. Like when you get a basing coat, some 3+ different colors here and there and lighting or at least deybrush. It's gonna suffice.

There are also tourneys where unpainted models are not allowed and they have some a bit higher up standards like drilled barrels, a couple layers minimum above the base layer, something else...

But it's mostly just the first case. Put some effort in your army and get those 10 VP. If I'd not fully painted, just play without them. No big deal.

also the people questioning immersion, for me i don't get immersed like i'm there the one shooting the gun on the battlefield, yes thats ridiculous.

i get immersed in the sense that i'm the lord general, or the warmaster, etc, ordering troops, via miniatures on a table.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Do people actually refuse pick-up games at their FLGS because their prospective opponent has unpainted models? I have certainly gamed at stores (mostly GW) where the game room policy was only painted models allowed. Heck, the GW near me circa 2003 required that the model's eyes must be painted or no play. Tournies, as well, often have a painting policy. That is different - in these cases the venue is putting a rule in place. I just can't see turning down a pickup game due to models being unpainted. Outrageous proxies? Different story. Lack of paint? Nope - lets roll some dice!

I do very much prefer to play with painted miniatures - this is a miniatures game after all. Part of my gaming experience is indeed the visual spectacle. Rules abstractions do not detract from that. The Age of Sigmar code of conduct goes so far as to state that we should ask our opponent's permission to use unpainted models. But to point-blank refuse a game over lack of paint when the venue has no such policy?

Sometimes..... I have the option to play whoever I like. Why would I pick to play some unpainted army when there's tons of people with beautiful armies wanting games.

Some posters have pointed out the "50% of people don't care if they are painted". While missing that 50% care about at least some level of painting. All you have done by not painting an army is limit the amount of potential people who are willing to play you. People also take it wrong, I don't look down on people who walk in with unpainted armies id just rather play a game against a painted one. Id say a large portion of the community feels this way and is why most tournaments have moved to have 3 color minimum painting requirements. The game is just more enjoyable sitting across from another painted army

johnpjones1775 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I seriously doubt most players are "immersed" in their games. "Immersion" means that you see yourself on the battle field and that you are acting out your fantasy on the gaming table. I somehow doubt that people are really doing that while at the same time firing their tanks turret weapon at someone when the only part of their tank that can "see" that target is the last millimeter of their front left tread. Likewise I fail so see how they can, and do, fire their left hull mounted sponson at a target that is only visible to the vehicle's right side. But that's OK it doesn't interfere with their immersion. It's just the horror of seeing unpainted/underpainted model across from them that destroys their fantasy in their toy soldier games.

I have no problem with you wanting to use the finest paint jobs you can get on your figures. If you don't want to play against a grey army then that's fine. It's a hobby and everyone has different levels of enjoyment. But at least man up and admit that in this game of toy soldiers you're acting like a child and that's all there is to it. Don't try to hide behind a flimsy excuse like "Your unpainted minis totally destroy my immersion in the game".

Just for transparency- I started playing at a store that allowed you to use your models unpainted for 3 weeks. After that it was expected that they would at least meet the 3 color level of painting. I still abide by that standard even though I no longer go to that store and that was 20 years ago. I don't have so much of my ego invested in my toys that I would turn down playing someone due to the paint status of their models.

the sponson question is pretty simple, the tank pivots 180 degrees...

how did that store really enforce that rule.
employee "oh those marines havent been painted for 3 weeks, can't use them."
customer "this is a whole new squad you see, and this is the first time i've used them."
employee "...nuh-uh."

i love how people try to come off as understanding and then jump to ad hominem attacks...good job.

As to the store, yeah, the owner would come over and ask why you hadn't painted your figures yet. If you didn't have a real excuse then he asked you to take the figures off of the table. If you said no then he asked you to leave. His philosophy was that painted figures catch people's attention and from there you get more sales. So to him it was a matter of advertising. Everyone in the store knew it and accepted it as the price of playing in his store.

And your reading is a little slipshod. If the model isn't moving then how does your "immersion" cover that a stationary figure pivots? If you can imagine that and still maintain your immersion then you should have no problem picturing your opponents army wearing an appropriate outfit/color pattern. Hypocrisy much?

And, for the record, I wasn't attacking anyone. I was stating my belief just like the people above me were stating their beliefs.