Warmachine/Hordes MKIV coming! Update 11/10/23

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**AduroT**

No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

**NAVARRO**

AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

**tneva82**

Well if no one complains to pp can there really be much of issue?

Or are pp customers just happy to buy anything regardless of quality? Quality can be junk and customers don't complain?

**godswildcard**

I mean...PP is offering a 100% satisfaction guarantee on these preview boxes, so if people are not returning them or letting PP know there is an issue I would assume that people are satisfied with their purchase.

Uncured resin strikes me as too much of a noob mistake for a company of PP's size. This isn't their first batch of models, so having some with creamy centers would be a bit shocking.

I would be interested in seeing this guy's models, though, to see what the issue is.

**NAVARRO**

tneva82 wrote:
Well if no one complains to pp can there really be much of issue?

Or are pp customers just happy to buy anything regardless of quality? Quality can be junk and customers don't complain?

Not sure but everyone has free will to do whatever they want if they are not satisfied... in the end people express their satisfaction levels by investing or not on the product.

I refuse to buy forge world, finecast, PP plastic...etc etc. If people do that then no need to fill a complain form.

I doubt PP clients are happy regardless quality, since you can see the state of the company today.

**NinthMusketeer**

NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

No, the first thing people did was assume it was truthful. The post was clearly made in context of being a follow-up, that no evidence was presented to back the claim. That which is claimed without evidence may be dismissed without evidence, which is what this is about. Besides, the claim is that PP are lying a bit the product they delivered, as they claimed it was cured resin, so even then the logic doesn't work out.

**NAVARRO**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I
No, the first thing people did was assume it was truthful. The post was clearly made in context of being a follow-up, that no evidence was presented to back the claim. That which is claimed without evidence may be dismissed without evidence, which is what this is about. Besides, the claim is that PP are lying a bit the product they delivered, as they claimed it was cured resin, so even then the logic doesn't work out.

You do realise "The past experience" some have with PP correct? Its not difficult to understand why people assume its a truthful claim. Its not like these claims have not context.
Personally Im reserving my judgment when I actually have a mini in my hands since.- I have PP saying this is the best thing for them, no relevant independent reviews, only dodgy pictures that show some hiccups etc... So yeah I will wait and see by myself since PP does not even go to the trouble of sending these to important channels that would showcase it for them...
Its one of those things you need to check it for yourself since theres not much info shared.

**tneva82**

Past is worrying yes but at least they got gencon samples out without issue players would be unhappy about.

**Rivetbull**

I bear them no particular ill-will, but guys are clearly done. This rollout is a final swing for the fences on limited funds. Suggest folks accept it and move on.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

they might well not be at gencon for more than a day so can't return the stuff (or even, depending on how/when they're traveling not be in a position to respond)

and it could also be somebody with a particular sensitivity to a particular resin, i know there is one resin caster i've had stuff from that i reacted badly to but friends who handled the same batch of stuff didn't and there was nothing visibly wrong with the casts (I reported my reaction to the casting company so if it became a pattern they'd know to change their resin but they said they'd not had any other reports)

**NAVARRO**

Rivetbull wrote:
I bear them no particular ill-will, but guys are clearly done. This rollout is a final swing for the fences on limited funds. Suggest folks accept it and move on.

I think the industry really needs PP and their range so its important to give them benefit of the doubt. I really hope they succeed.

Many projects on limited funds from other companies have good results so this can be it for PP. Most companies would probably love to have warmachine legacy has their starting point.

**caladancid**

NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

Why would you immediately assume this uncured resin thing happened more than once? Maybe it did or maybe it did not, but you have zero data.

I quit playing Warmachine years ago due to both the rules and models so I am no PP apologist, but this is a lot of piling on with an amazing lack of foundation.

**NAVARRO**

caladancid wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

Why would you immediately assume this uncured resin thing happened more than once? Maybe it did or maybe it did not, but you have zero data.

I quit playing Warmachine years ago due to both the rules and models so I am no PP apologist, but this is a lot of piling on with an amazing lack of foundation.

Where do you see me personally assuming anything? When the report initially came in I dont remember saying anything... and on the thing you quoted im asking how do you know theres no other bad experiences/ reports? We dont know nothing! - thats the point...

**NinthMusketeer**

Yeah, so it should be dismissed, not considered as potentially valid. Were the state of things in the age of misinformation different we could have the luxury of treating claims made with the benefit of the doubt but these days giving any legitimacy to claims made without evidence just ends up feeding the problem :(

**WUWU**

NAVARRO wrote:
Rivetbull wrote:
I bear them no particular ill-will, but guys are clearly done. This rollout is a final swing for the fences on limited funds. Suggest folks accept it and move on.

I think the industry really needs PP and their range so its important to give them benefit of the doubt. I really hope they succeed.

Many projects on limited funds from other companies have good results so this can be it for PP. Most companies would probably love to have warmachine legacy has their starting point.

The industry has been fine without them for the past four years or so, if not longer. I think it'll be okay

**AduroT**

**stonehorse**

AduroT wrote:

If that is the extent of it, I think it is safe to say it has been blown way out of proportion.

Seeing as PP had to cut short the online ordering due to demand, I think PP might be doing OK.

**Altruizine**

NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

Poisonous spiders have been hatching out of all boxes of Kill Team products (I will not be addressing this issue again).

**Leo_the_Rat**

Altruizine wrote:
Poisonous spiders have been hatching out of all boxes of Kill Team products (I will not be addressing this issue again).

You know, I read that somewhere. It must be true.

**Monkeysloth**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
they might well not be at gencon for more than a day so can't return the stuff (or even, depending on how/when they're traveling not be in a position to respond)

and it could also be somebody with a particular sensitivity to a particular resin, i know there is one resin caster i've had stuff from that i reacted badly to but friends who handled the same batch of stuff didn't and there was nothing visibly wrong with the casts (I reported my reaction to the casting company so if it became a pattern they'd know to change their resin but they said they'd not had any other reports)

I'm one of those people. Touching uncured resin makes be break out really bad for weeks, thought I had chemical burns the first time it happened (which it might be to some degree as I do get a lot of blister like things), and even after washing or curing something I can get a mild rash for a few days afterwards if I hold it too long. Letting the print sit for a few days after the second cure usually is enough to make them safe for me. My Brother-in-Law, on the other hand, doesn't use gloves or anything protective (outside of eyewear) when working with UV resin and it doesn't affect him in any way.

I just have to be really careful when working with my own printers.

**Eumerin**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Altruizine wrote:
Poisonous spiders have been hatching out of all boxes of Kill Team products (I will not be addressing this issue again).

You know, I read that somewhere. It must be true.

Me too! Some guy posted on Dakka, I think!

**LunarSol**

Valander wrote:
Regardless of the model production issues (while important), I haven't seen a whole lot of chatter about the beta rules they put out. A few posts here and there, but there is not a lot of buzz about it in my "usual" hobby circles online. I think that will be more telling too, probably after Gen Con, when more folks start messing with the beta rules and considering those along with the model quality as to whether it's "worth it" to get into/back-into Warmachine. It feels like this is kind of a make or break moment with Mk 4 launch, and if it doesn't succeed, I'm not sure how much longer PP can survive on their other product lines.

I posted some thoughts after a 50 point beta game a few pages back. Overall I think the rules work well and I really enjoyed what I played. Let me know if you have any questions.

**EviscerationPlague**

NAVARRO wrote:
AduroT wrote:
No one's actually confirmed the uncured resin thing. There was a single post by a single person claiming it. Privateer and Matt Wilson himself asked him to bring the models to them to replace them and figure out what happened. Per Privateer he never did, nor did he post on it again. Privateer has posted their curing process which is beyond the recommendations for their resin, but sounds like they are doing to reinforce the process going forward and will make an Insider on the handling of resin (mind you, they've been using non-3d printed resin for years now). I am not saying the guy lied, but it is weird that no one else has had that issue of the hundreds of boxes they sold so far.

How do you know no one else had issues? Just because people dont post things online doesn't mean there are no issues... Furthermore why would they? if the first thing some people do is insinuate they are liars... Not cool dude.

I

Everyone posts complaints online dude LOL

If it were a thing, you'd hear about it more than once.

**Vertrucio**

PP doesn't need a defender.

They've made a lot of production mistakes before. But they are at least mostly good at fixing them, but it doesn't help to pretend they haven't, or deny they had issues.

It's an issue that needed resolving, it resolved. It's an issue that people should look out for in the future as they try this new and untested at this scale production method, especially one that involves toxic chemicals.

So, can you two drop it until something else comes up?

**tneva82**

Well one returk and couple missing pieces easy to resolve. Not like gw has perfect boxes eitherx

**NAVARRO**

tneva82 wrote:
Well one returk and couple missing pieces easy to resolve. Not like gw has perfect boxes eitherx

Exactly, not very common but I even got a GW miscast with hips when some parts of the sprue seemed melted etc.

Theres a YouTube video unboxing Khador minis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mAL7Gr816A

Mixed feelings at this point looking at some parts there.

**Arbitrator**

Wargamergirl finally cracks and does a 40k video. One month later Mk4 is announced. Coincidence? I think not.

**AduroT**

“A quick update regarding Uncured Resin: The customer who purchased a preview battlegroup at Gen Con and believed they had received product with uncured resin was able to return to the Privateer booth Saturday with the model kit. After a thorough inspection of each part, we were able to determine that what was being interpreted as uncured resin was in fact, what we expected, residue from the ultrasonic cleaning process. The model parts were entirely cured, but detritus from the ultrasonic cleaning process had deposited a bit of chalky buildup. We have addressed this issue after noticing it during our original production run by increasing the frequency of cycling of our ultrasonic cleaning baths, but some earlier produced parts did make it through our packing process. While the residue can be easily removed with a little isopropyl alcohol and the abrasion of a soft toothbrush or even just covered with a coat of primer, if you encounter this issue with the models and don’t wish to clean them, you can contact frontdesk@privateerpress.com for a replacement. But most importantly, while we have taken many steps to ensure models do not possess this chalky residue from the cleaning process, if it does appear on a model it does not indicate uncured resin or make the models dangerous to handle. Always practice safety when working with resin, however, by wearing a respirator when sanding and using a wet sanding technique, and wash your hands and clean your workstation after working with resin, whether it’s 3D printed or cast.
A quick thanks to the customer for taking time to bring that part back to the booth! We take the health and wellness of our customers seriously.”

**Valander**

Ok, if there was confusion on "uncured resin" by a customer that turned out to be that chalky residue that can happen if you don't let the model dry fully before curing, I can accept that, and can say "ok, move on."

Where I still have a problem, though, is the resolution and quality of the prints for the price they're asking. I know you can get better quality prints than what they've shown so far with not terribly expensive printers. And I know that other companies who do 3d print as production send out better quality prints than that for less or equivalent prices (e.g., Kingdom Death does do some direct 3d print as production and those that I've seen are flawless, and that's what you should be expecting for that cost).

Time will tell, I suppose. I do wish PP luck and have no ill will towards them. Whether the changes with the rules will save their game and whether the quality of their models will be sufficient is something that none of us can really predict and just have to watch and see. (Personally, no, neither of those from what I've seen thus far is enough to get me back into the game, but that's my own choice and opinion.)

**NinthMusketeer**

At this point PPs issue, real or imagined, seems pretty small compared to GWs spider-eggs scandal. We can't assume people haven't been bitten by hatched spiders when they open the new release boxes, some may be unable to post feedback because they are still in the hospital.

/s