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With be'lakor you have all effects so yea.

And i did use the mw thing twice for quite literally zero impact. You use it if nothing else but still is weak. Not losing sleep over losing it. 6 flamers would do more damage

So after my game today, here are my thoughts:

Burning Terror is quite useful. It's easy to catch a lot of enemy units with its range (24" is a massive range). It was certainly useful when descending shadow wasn't practical.
I was able to get Fury of Khorne off once. It was a nice buff, and can certainly help depending on the unit that you are attacking into.
Otherworldly Tread helped me get into combat a few times. Being able to ignore the penalties for things like craters is massive.

For the units, I found Bloodcrushers to be reasonably durable. I was happy with my 6-man unit.
Bloodletters were over-costed. Even with the warp-manifestation shenanigans they were unreliable to get into combat and didn't stand up to too much punishment back. Getting into combat can be helped with Banner of Blood, but it's only one unit. Frenetic Bloodlust also helps a little with closing the gap.
My Flesh Hounds never made it into combat, so little to say about that.
Skull Cannon's were good IMO. They have reasonable shooting and are reasonable in melee. Their combination of tough 7 and 4+ save makes them fairly resilient.
I ran a Bloodthirster with Indomitable Onslaught, Aspect of Death, Blood-drinker Talisman, and a Great Axe. I don't think I played it well. That said, the fact that it had Indomitable Onslaught made it difficult for my opponent to deal with. I would consider taking the Crimson Crown and Rage Incarnate next time.
I was super happy with how the Skull Altar performed. First off, the -2 to psychic tests saved me a number of times. My opponent got unlucky and rolled under the WC cost for smite multiple times because of the Altar! I was able to use Ritual Slaughter once which netted me +2 WSP. If I had of more cleverly placed units I would have received more. One of the problems however was that because I had 2nd turn, the points generated by the Altar can only be used on either Dark Invigoration or Fury of Khorne. The Crimson Crown can help retain these points for the next turn.

Overall, I felt Khorne was OK, but not great.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
+1a runs into issue of being overkill. At least the game i had lack of killing power was not an issue Anything died even without it. -1 to hit was lot more of a thing.

Depends on the situation. A unit of bloodletters benefit from +1A, when only wounding on 4s or even 5s.

tneva82 wrote:

The mw thing was super meh. 2 times rolling for entire army and got aggressor(who was going to die to bloodthirster anyway) and wound to 2 units which didn't do anything in the end.

If those 2 WSP are left over, give it a try, better than losing them at the end of the turn.

tneva82 wrote:

+1 to cast is lot more interesting and always strike first can be useful at some situations.

+1 to cast even benefits belakor, when in a tzeentch detachment, and strike first is always good.

I am not saying those abilities are not good. Just not worth losing the flexibility of use of each gods best units

Ouch what a lopsided win i got. 82-24(and i gave 3vp away by tabling him t4). Not sure how bad deathwatch atm and his luck was horrible with first 2 turns loads of misses thanks to warpstorm. T8 and 4+ also kept me strong.

Planet bowlin ball and all he got was 7 bloodletter# ed 5 wounds to skarbrand and soul grinder.

Then i got charge army wide and basically deleted all.

Khorne mw warp storm did nothing. -1 to hit big and r3 and 4 healed own guy's for lolz so lost 7 bloodletteis, 1 crusher and most heavy hitterrp at best bracket.

Got to buv more stuff so it's not just monster smash. '

God specific warpstorm done mw thing 3 times and attack once and literally had 0 impact. Pretty sure adding say flamers would have bigge impact.

tneva82 wrote:
Ouch what a lopsided win i got. 82-24(and i gave 3vp away by tabling him t4). Not sure how bad deathwatch atm and his luck was horrible with first 2 turns loads of misses thanks to warpstorm. T8 and 4+ also kept me strong.

Planet bowlin ball and all he got was 7 bloodletter# ed 5 wounds to skarbrand and soul grinder.

Then i got charge army wide and basically deleted all.

Khorne mw warp storm did nothing. -1 to hit big and r3 and 4 healed own guy's for lolz so lost 7 bloodletteis, 1 crusher and most heavy hitterrp at best bracket.

Got to buv more stuff so it's not just monster smash. '

God specific warpstorm done mw thing 3 times and attack once and literally had 0 impact. Pretty sure adding say flamers would have bigge impact.

Yea man. Khorne with flamers and nurgle soul grinder I think is probably the best build. Maybe a tzeentch herald to cast +1 to wound on flamers and put out some mortals.

How are you liking blood crushers? I just ordered some to add to my tzeentch army

They haven't been amazing but then again with 3 they can't be expected to do wonders And with bloodthirsters smashing everything the blood crushers kinda get outshined ;-)

vs blood angels they charged in and killed intercessors netting me 3 vp from grind them down and tagged inceptors reducing shooting a bit. Then got killed but hey 5 aggressors coming in not much can expect to survive...Can't really ask for more than that.

This game they tagged bikes denying shooting and after 1 round of free slaps, them retreat and charge and then again I STILL had 2 out of 3 survive and had killed 3 outriders myself. So they were certainly tying up those bikes. T5 and 4/4 saves makes them surprisingly durable and being just 135 pts not super tempting target for the enemy to target heavier weapons. Not with trio of bloodthirsters and soul grinder bearing down on their throats!

Add to that fast for T1 objective grabbing and they have done solid work. Just kind of getting overshadowed by blood thirsters But then again this kind of work in their favour as opponent has wee bit bigger things to aim at than 3 blood crushers...

In pure khorne I don't regret taking them. Were I to mix gods though think flamers would be better...Then again not much where flamers AREN'T better option...

Fiends is interesting comparison. 10 pts cheaper, extra attack but less AP(that -3 is handy vs marines). T4 vs T5 and that T5 has actually played quite an impact. -1 hit in melee does help though but 5+ save vs shooting. Faster than blood crushers. Fiends probably better overall for points but the blood crushers have role. Lot depends on does the T5 play a role or not. If you face S6-S7 mostly the T5 isn't that interesting but S4 feels that a lot.

Charging from Locus points. Is there a build that ca do that?

From my understanding all demons have 2 sources of locus points + belakor?

Khorne: Skallebrand and altar (who can deepstrike, but not used in the same turn.)
Nurgle: Named unclean one and trees (who can forward deploy).
Slanesh: Named demon and unknown to me.
Tzeench: Named demon and spell.
All have belakor.

Could running up Skallebrand and Belakor and just start throwing khorn units at the enemy work? Or would they just be focused own fast and die? Some of them like hound or skullcrushers might be fast enough to walk on their own?

How about the other demons?

Infernal enrapturess is the second source for warp locus for slaanesh. Tzeentch is kairos and WLT. There are 9 warp locus units. Pick some, deploy them on the table, move forward, and charge after deepstriking. Belakor reduces LD by 2, he has two different auras, and you can reduce LD by another 1 with warpstorm points. This means that you can deepstrike 5" away from an enemy unit with LD8. Note that its exactly 5", not more than 5", and its capped at 3-9. This means you only need to roll a 4 for the charge roll. This however only works in no mans land.

"more than number of inches away from each enemy unit, equal to current leadership".

MORE than number...

No it's not exact. Unless you cheat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
Could running up Skallebrand and Belakor and just start throwing khorn units at the enemy work? Or would they just be focused own fast and die? Some of them like hound or skullcrushers might be fast enough to walk on their own?

So far I have got Skarbrand to launch distance as is.

Of course with -1 to enemy leadership near your demons and ability to lower more by warpstorm with leadership 8(like marines) I find myself doing 6"-7" charges anyway so the warp locus has turned out to be less essential than I expected. Which is why I'm starting to consider putting skarbrand in reserves instead of a bloodthirster. Sure I can't use warp locus but that base + 8" movement + no fly=getting close to enemy can be tricky.

tneva82 wrote:
"more than number of inches away from each enemy unit, equal to current leadership".

MORE than number...

No it's not exact. Unless you cheat.

It says more and equal. It cant be both. What is it ?

It must be more than X, where X is equal to...

Ok, now it makes sense to me.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
"more than number of inches away from each enemy unit, equal to current leadership".

MORE than number...

No it's not exact. Unless you cheat.

It says more and equal. It cant be both. What is it ?

Yes it can. More than x where x is equal to leadership of enemy.

Elementary school math.

Forge world FAQ is out.

I've been playing with ZE DEMONZ quite a bit lately and I'll start the discussion by statng that shoving Belakor in a supreme command detachment is almost always a dumb move.

With no "extra warlord trait" it means losing out on a big defensive layer on your chiken/Blood Provider (Or the ignore wounds cap trait on the latter) which is a big deal and gaining ALL ZE WARP TIEDS is kind of a moot gain since you'll rarely be able to use more than 2 in a turn (and this already implies saving up warp points with the tzeentch's power).


The best army comp is probably to have one pure detachment for the tides you'll actually need (khorne for +1A/no disengage or tzeentch for the +1 casts if you have at least 3 psykers) and then a mixed one with complementary solid units (Khorne/Nurgle soulgrinders, Fiends, Flamers).

Blue horrors on the field keeping home objectives "screened" and reserves bloodletters charging in with the stratagem are the best troop option. Plaguebearers could be half decent if they could get models back with the Resurgence Tide, as it is 2 wounds and T5 simply won't cut it as a "wall" in the current world.


The list I've been running lately is a double patrol with:

Belakor
Skarbrand
Lord of Change

1 unit of blues

1 unit of bloodletters

And then Fiends/Flamers/Soulgrinders while testing out different combinations.

What's the consensus on Daemon Princes? I like a Tzeentch one with the Impossible robe if i'm giving the Big Chicken the conflagration staff, especially since I can give it the "utility" powers or interrogate while the chicken keeps blasting away.

tneva82 wrote:
"more than number of inches away from each enemy unit, equal to current leadership".

So far I have got Skarbrand to launch distance as is.

Of course with -1 to enemy leadership near your demons and ability to lower more by warpstorm with leadership 8(like marines) I find myself doing 6"-7" charges anyway so the warp locus has turned out to be less essential than I expected. Which is why I'm starting to consider putting skarbrand in reserves instead of a bloodthirster. Sure I can't use warp locus but that base + 8" movement + no fly=getting close to enemy can be tricky.

There's little to no reason to start with Skarbrand on the table unless you're playing against someone that will need to move towards you and you just want to lie in wait for a turn/have a centerfield terrain that can cover him well.

Well if skarbrand doesn't start you don't even plan to use his warp locus. T3 generally won't matter much for it. You need to start smashing t2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Had rough(though fun) game vs orks with my pure khorne. Think this might be surprisingly tough match up and 6 objective scenario didn't help(not promising since next league round is this).

The orks throwing loads of s5 melee attacks and t5/6 came heavily to play. I was deleting　units fine but was losing units and 12 to 18 i can't just trade...

Going 2nd and moving bit too far paid dearly and transports issue as was going to be pretty hard stopping nobz getting charge. Thanks for 8w cap.

Got nurture by terror capped easily(each unit being near automatic vp and using warpstorm for extra modifiers and doing random firepower spread around triggering ld checks at -2 helps), 10/13 assasinate and 9-10 from reality vs opponents 15 good bits and 11 from greentide(i traded daemon prince to make 0 secondary for him) but getting only 1 primary after turn 3 was fatal. Too much obsec swarming objectives clearing bloodletters.


Bloodcrushers found their match from squighound orks. So far i have wounded enemy on 3+ and opponent wounded on 5+. Now reverse...

tneva82 wrote:
Well if skarbrand doesn't start you don't even plan to use his warp locus. T3 generally won't matter much for it. You need to start smashing t2

If you go pure khorne it surely can be an issue but Belakor is pretty much an autotake for the Loci, Rerolls for EVERYONE (Aside from Soul Grindes because for some reason feth those guys) and his Wreathed in Shades power.

Even if going mono-god you should always have 1 fast/throw-away unit (Dogs and Fiends work best for this) that can just advance in your opponent's face. After that you spend the 3 WP for the additional -1 Ld and unless you're playing against Custodes or Necrons you'll be looking at 7" charges anyway.
Even in the worst case scenario just plopping him 8/9" away and sending in a unit of bloodletters with the 3d6 charge, making them fight in the +1A bubble is not terrible if it meant keeping him safe from shooting for a turn.

Never underestimate the difference in psychological pressure put on your opponent between "This murder machine is right THERE on the table and can only erase things in this rather small area" vs "This murder machine is out there somewhere and I need to be careful with my movements or it's gonna get me"

Are daemon lists still "maximum big guys all the time"?
I understand that flamers are pretty good and it looks like a couple squads of bloodletters is appreciated in most lists, but is it really like:

3 Bloodthirster
3x10 Bloodletters
Skull Altar
Be'lakor
3x6 flamers

Do we have wiggle room to branch out into other things? I mostly have/like the little daemons and am hesitant to go out and get multiple enormo-daemons.

Last edition's meta was little daemons so this edition's meta is big daemons. You will also be expected to buy Be'lakor if you haven't already.

That's the business model.

Question on a rule:

Slaanesh Warlord trait "Savage Hedonist". It says that at the start of each battle round, add 1 to WL's strength (to a maximum of +3).

Does this mean the strength increases 3 times? Like, on turn 3 I have S +3? Thanks!

 Rihgu wrote:
Are daemon lists still "maximum big guys all the time"?
I understand that flamers are pretty good and it looks like a couple squads of bloodletters is appreciated in most lists, but is it really like:

3 Bloodthirster
3x10 Bloodletters
Skull Altar
Be'lakor
3x6 flamers

Do we have wiggle room to branch out into other things? I mostly have/like the little daemons and am hesitant to go out and get multiple enormo-daemons.

Yes, because little daemons suck, except for flamers. All troop choices are overpriced by 10-20 points.

Ah shucks. Well, skull grinders are cool, and I have always loved Be'lakor, so it's not all bad.

I only have 10 bloodletters, though. RIP to the 20 pink horrors and 30 plaguebearers, I guess.

Personally I am stoked that bloodthirsters are finally good. Lukewarm on the GW Be'lakor sculpt but luckily EMANG's got me covered with his excellent proxies.

Hecate wrote:
Question on a rule:

Slaanesh Warlord trait "Savage Hedonist". It says that at the start of each battle round, add 1 to WL's strength (to a maximum of +3).

Does this mean the strength increases 3 times? Like, on turn 3 I have S +3? Thanks!

That's correct. I think the Murderdance or Fatal Caress are more useful though. Keepers are already at S8 for their attacks, so an additional +3 strength is going to be less beneficial then an additional d3 attacks or ignoring invulnerables.

I'm a bit sad that you can't take Savage Hedonist on a Tormentbringer on Hellflayer - it could bring their Bladed Axle up to a juicy S9.

Ahh, thanks.

Oh, hang on... I haven't seen anything about summoning in the new codex! There's stuff about being held in reserves, but no summoning! I play Power rather than Points, and the previous codex let me summon stuff without having to pay extra Power for them. Is this not a thing anymore?

Yeah nah, no more summoning in the book. It has basically been replaced with the Warp Manifestation rule to represent Daemons materialising in real-space.

Chaos Daemons could be super busted in Crusade. Pink Horrors with free splitting were broken - especially if you ended up with a 30 horror Battle-Tested squad (auto-pass combat attrition near objective marker). There was no way that you were moving 150 obsec bodies that didn't care about morale for 12pl.

yeah, i'm glad the no limit on sumonning doesnt exist anymore

Mmm, it did seem broken to me, too. But my main opponent was okay with it. We never played Crusade, but they played Tzeentch (and Blood Angels), and I was Slaanesh (and Necrons), so it seemed okay for us.

Played my first proper game with the new book against Deathwatch.

I took a Khorne/tzeentch force with Belakor, Tanky thirster, fateskimmer, skulltaker, flamers, skullcannon, Grinder and some bloodletters and a squad of Blue horrors.

I went first and we called the game after my turn turn 2 as I have killed 2/3s of his army and had the rest pinned in facing death.

Some thoughts:

Even against infiltrators and auspex scan our new deepstriking options are very strong and make it tricky for the opponent to plan around.

The thirster is very tanky and super deadly - just as it should be :-D I can't see me playing without him.

The Fateskimmer was awesome, I took both the tzeentch MW powers and seeing my oponent bunch up decided to shoot him forward turn 1 and unload. Using the warpstorm for +1 to cast and the strat for an extra power so I could fire off a smite he managed 24 MW in the psychic phase!!! Most of that with Infernal gateway to his packed in units, followed by a Bolt of change to finish off his WL and then a super smite.
He was then tanky enough to weather my opponents return fire forcing him to come out and finish me in assault leaving him open to my counter charge that I had setup.

Flamers are just bonkers for their points, fast, tough and put out a massive amount of decent shots - these need a points hike!

Everything else did what it should with nothing standing out in any way.