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Hecate wrote: Ah, damn! I'd need marines then, and could only take 2 heavies! :(
actually you can't take chaos marines as allies at all.
Arks of Omen limits you to strictly the lists in the "battle brothers" rules section, and the only option for daemons is CK. no CSM unless you're running belakor's AoR
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 10:33:20
Hecate wrote: Ah, damn! I'd need marines then, and could only take 2 heavies! :(
actually you can't take chaos marines as allies at all.
Arks of Omen limits you to strictly the lists in the "battle brothers" rules section, and the only option for daemons is CK. no CSM unless you're running belakor's AoR
really? thats a bummer, i completely missed it was a one way street. god dammit.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
You can play daemons with CSM, the other way around. You pick a CSM AoO detachment, but with the minimal number of units. Then you max your daemon patrol detachment. The AoO rules dont say that your AoO detachment has to have the most points, or the most units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/17 09:10:01
So then perhaps the next thing we can hope for is that god-specific warp storm tables are linked to Greater Daemons, rather than detachments. Have a LoC? You get the Tzeentch table!
Seems to solve a problem and be relatively fluffy.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
thats a option, though i can see people complaining about linking the powers to a expensive (both in points and real money) model as GW being predatory and trying to force sales.
in the meantime, though, do people feel we should be running mostly monogod lists or just sack the godly warp storms off and go undivided?
ive got about 1300ish points of khorne, and while my next purchase is pretty solidly going to Belakor (becuase why not?), im debating wether i want to just keep buying more khornate stuff, or diversify into Tzneetch, slaneesh or Nurgle for funsies.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Elric Greywolf wrote: So then perhaps the next thing we can hope for is that god-specific warp storm tables are linked to Greater Daemons, rather than detachments. Have a LoC? You get the Tzeentch table!
Seems to solve a problem and be relatively fluffy.
Just have all warpstorm available to any demon list.
And add back in a real monodemon bonus
Elric Greywolf wrote: So then perhaps the next thing we can hope for is that god-specific warp storm tables are linked to Greater Daemons, rather than detachments. Have a LoC? You get the Tzeentch table!
Seems to solve a problem and be relatively fluffy.
The only Warp Storm effects I've found useful have been god-specific. That was Slaanesh and Tzeentch in 2 different games. I personally think all you should need for the god-specific Warp stuff is a battle-forged detachment of that god. I agree that linking it to greater daemons is a bit... expensive.
What bugs me more is the stratagems. There was like 1 strat for Slaanesh that I liked. I wound up finishing a small 12 CP game with like 10 CP left...
Better strats, please! (That ain't happening.)
Also, I'm a non-competitive casual player, so grain of salt etc.
Okay Daemon players, I have a 1500 point game coming up against guard and idk what to do. is it crazy to spam plaguebearers, and I mean like play 90 of them spam? back up with a d prince and a beast to round out the points? I know nurgle is in a tough spot right now but I have hoards of bearers from when they were passable In previous editions.
the general plan would be swarm objectives, clog up gun lines and deny points so that even if by T4 I'm blown off the board I already have the lead for the win.
Mad_Proctologist wrote: Okay Daemon players, I have a 1500 point game coming up against guard and idk what to do. is it crazy to spam plaguebearers, and I mean like play 90 of them spam? back up with a d prince and a beast to round out the points? I know nurgle is in a tough spot right now but I have hoards of bearers from when they were passable In previous editions.
the general plan would be swarm objectives, clog up gun lines and deny points so that even if by T4 I'm blown off the board I already have the lead for the win.
A smart guard player would probably just move up the board against such a list, you're not gonna get through their tanks in a realistic manner with the damage output of a plaguebearer horde. And you're far from tanky enough to warrant not killing them
Mad_Proctologist wrote: Okay Daemon players, I have a 1500 point game coming up against guard and idk what to do. is it crazy to spam plaguebearers, and I mean like play 90 of them spam? back up with a d prince and a beast to round out the points? I know nurgle is in a tough spot right now but I have hoards of bearers from when they were passable In previous editions.
the general plan would be swarm objectives, clog up gun lines and deny points so that even if by T4 I'm blown off the board I already have the lead for the win.
maybe? im not sure. 90 odd t5 w2 4++ bodies is a LOT for him to try and shoot off the table, but im not sure it how well it will work agianst the sheer volumne he might be able to put out. i haven't faced the new guard yet so i cant really comment on what thats going to be like.
also, ive seen a few point camper lists before, and while they can be effective, they are boring, both to play and to fight. its just an endless stream of whittling, chip chip chipping away at you, and you more or less just sitting their because that was your gameplan.
by all means though, go for it if you have the models.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Mad_Proctologist wrote: Okay Daemon players, I have a 1500 point game coming up against guard and idk what to do. is it crazy to spam plaguebearers, and I mean like play 90 of them spam? back up with a d prince and a beast to round out the points? I know nurgle is in a tough spot right now but I have hoards of bearers from when they were passable In previous editions.
the general plan would be swarm objectives, clog up gun lines and deny points so that even if by T4 I'm blown off the board I already have the lead for the win.
maybe? im not sure. 90 odd t5 w2 4++ bodies is a LOT for him to try and shoot off the table, but im not sure it how well it will work agianst the sheer volumne he might be able to put out. i haven't faced the new guard yet so i cant really comment on what thats going to be like.
also, ive seen a few point camper lists before, and while they can be effective, they are boring, both to play and to fight. its just an endless stream of whittling, chip chip chipping away at you, and you more or less just sitting their because that was your gameplan.
by all means though, go for it if you have the models.
Keep in mind they will be auto wounding you a lot and have plenty of S6+ shots so amount of gain you get from T5. w2 is better except that firepower will have ungodly amount of plasma etc dam2 shots...
Myself I would rather go for slaanesh(get to combat ASAP) or tzeentch(3+ save they can't touch) if I were tooling up toward guard. Albeit haven't faced new guard yet with daemons. Just with thousand sons(won by getting 1st turn and boxing him inside deployment zone long enough that won on primaries. Might be worse if opponent pushes in more aggressively. This was his first game with new book)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/24 08:03:55
Mad_Proctologist wrote: Okay Daemon players, I have a 1500 point game coming up against guard and idk what to do. is it crazy to spam plaguebearers, and I mean like play 90 of them spam? back up with a d prince and a beast to round out the points? I know nurgle is in a tough spot right now but I have hoards of bearers from when they were passable In previous editions.
the general plan would be swarm objectives, clog up gun lines and deny points so that even if by T4 I'm blown off the board I already have the lead for the win.
As someone who primarily plays Nurgle and my primary opponent most often plays guard, it is going to be a bad game for you. Nurgle does not have the toughness to stick around for very long under the firepower of new guard. Even without D2 weapons he will have more than enough shots with D1 weapons that most if not all of your plaguebearers will be gone first turn.
Beast will be okay but again, they have enough firepower to take them off the table without much issue. If they are unfamiliar with Beast they might also make the mistake of leaving them alive, but that trick will only last one turn and they have the rest of the game to correct that issue.
New guard are really dangerous, they can put out an insane amount of damage and their secondaries are tailored well enough that they can get a decent amount of points. Infantry backed by a commisar are great at holding objectives but they still fold like wet paper bags.
Can someone explain why en exalted flamer has move 10 and regular flamers move 12
and why a skulmaster has move 8 while skullcrushers have move 10???
Isn't it the exact same beast they're on?
Also they should have given the flamers more range when they took away the flamer ability.
Krull wrote: Can someone explain why en exalted flamer has move 10 and regular flamers move 12
and why a skulmaster has move 8 while skullcrushers have move 10???
Isn't it the exact same beast they're on?
Also they should have given the flamers more range when they took away the flamer ability.
exalted flamer is bigger
idk gak about khorne
nah, flamers still do more than enough damage as it is, giving them a weakness is perfectly fine (and needed) (i play mono tzeentch btw)
if anything, GW shouldve given the burning chariot the <character> keyword
Krull wrote: Can someone explain why en exalted flamer has move 10 and regular flamers move 12
and why a skulmaster has move 8 while skullcrushers have move 10???
Isn't it the exact same beast they're on?
Also they should have given the flamers more range when they took away the flamer ability.
exalted flamer is bigger
idk gak about khorne
nah, flamers still do more than enough damage as it is, giving them a weakness is perfectly fine (and needed) (i play mono tzeentch btw)
if anything, GW shouldve given the burning chariot the <character> keyword
What characters do you bring and what is their loadout (of relic or WLT)
Do you prefer a fluxmaster over a fateskimmer?
Do you have a army list floating around somewhere so i can have a look?
I just started, have some khorne en a bit of tzeentch, but dont know how to expand/use them properly
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/14 12:45:58
HS1: Burning Chariot: Fire of Tzeentch, Screamer bites [120 pts, 6 PL]
HS2: Burning Chariot: Fire of Tzeentch, Screamer bites [120 pts, 6 PL]
HS3: Burning Chariot: Fire of Tzeentch, Screamer bites [120 pts, 6 PL]
Similar to what I'm currently running, but with some interesting choices. Gives up 14 on no prisoners before any splits which I don't like.
In general I think you could give that Tzeentch list to 10 different players and get very different results, as knowing how to play your army, your opponent and the terrain is very important because the datasheets are very straight forward.
I've seen a lot of Khorne only daemon lists in the bottom half of tournaments. So probably equally straight forward and depending on player skill but just worse datasheets.
You can score 15 on reality rebels without leaving your "half" of the table, 5 for one quarter, 5 for another quarter, 5 for being wholly within 6" of the centre. Easy to go 2 - 2 - 2 - 4 - 4 as well if winning by the end.
Against melee, that list has 1 DP, 15 Screamers and 4 Screamer Chariots that can do some light melee.
You can also "peel" one unit of 5 MEQ off a unit with the MW output of all your characters.
I need to play it myself more to understand it, but I could easily see someone score a 20 with it by pushing up too fast.
p5freak wrote: How do you avoid melee with such a list ? You have no screens, and you want to spread out to score for rr.
honestly, you don't ? i've been lucky and havnt faced any hard melee army yet as post-nerf mono tzeentch.
use a few squads of blues if you're facing some heavy melee stuff, otherwise burning chariots aren't terrible in melee i found.
Flamers in the active turn will melt anything that gets close (and by close i mean 25", so half the board)
That's where you lure them out with easy to charge targets. Or also known as "screens". For a pure Tzeentch force, Blue Horrors would do the trick nicely. Alternatively 3-man screamer units also work well.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
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