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ccs wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
I hope they dramatically reduce range in attacks the board is so small and attack range so big for most units it's more like is it in line of sight OK then attack. Outside of objectives theres not enough motion on the boards

You could try something radical - like playing on a larger board.

That wouldn't be adopted by tournaments. Less profits.

You can already play 40K on boards as large as you like. Any shape you fancy.

Just don't go smaller than the minimum-size suggested in the GT pack.

GW: oh noes! You mean fans may have to spend a fortune buy their codes AGAIN! That would be just awful!

New Edition next year is a logical step if you take the pace into account with the GW published new codes.
I find it at least one year too early.
But GW is more interested to hold up sales.

I just love the absolutely milking that has been GWs MO to release Space Marines 2.0 right at the end of an edition and invalidate it a few months later when the edition turns over, just to release another SM codex along with the new edition.

How many SM codexes can we sell people seems to be the mantra.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Insectum7 wrote:Please don't further degrade the Strength vs. Toughness paradigm.

Better yet, just bring back the old to wound chart. The current one hasn't done anything positive for the game.

A thousand percent yes.



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 Hellebore wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Please don't further degrade the Strength vs. Toughness paradigm.

Yeah, in which case they really need to cut out all the modifiers on dice and go back to the values themselves.

ie 3 Grudge tokens, +3 Strength.

The degradation will remain until they stop writing it into the rules...

I think modifiers are ok, this is just one of the many instances where GW goes to far.

Thinking back to the classics, the only "modifiers" for Strength or Toughness I can recall were ye Olde Doom for Eldar and Iron Arm. The only other modifiers that I can recall are those inherent to the weapons or units themselves, which is more reliable/predictable.

 wuestenfux wrote:
New Edition next year is a logical step if you take the pace into account with the GW published new codes.
I find it at least one year too early.
But GW is more interested to hold up sales.

It's more that a lot of the content we're getting now is likely still later than planned from the shenanigans of the last couple of years. I'd wager there was a 1 year gap of expansion material planned at first.

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
I hope they dramatically reduce range in attacks the board is so small and attack range so big for most units it's more like is it in line of sight OK then attack. Outside of objectives theres not enough motion on the boards

You could try something radical - like playing on a larger board.

That wouldn't be adopted by tournaments. Less profits.

I care nothing for tourney play. Or the needs/wants of those running them or playing in them.

If you play tournaments & hate the small board sizes? Well, you CHOSE to play in a crap environment.... You want a better play experience? Make a different choice of how/where to play.

This'll be the 10th time they did a new edition invalidating old books months after they released them and you're still surprised?

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
I hope they dramatically reduce range in attacks the board is so small and attack range so big for most units it's more like is it in line of sight OK then attack. Outside of objectives theres not enough motion on the boards

You could try something radical - like playing on a larger board.

That wouldn't be adopted by tournaments. Less profits.

Depends on who they're buying the neoprene mats from. Can't unring the bell of them literally hacking up the current ones to fit a nebulous claim of GW's "official" board size so they'd have to buy new ones...

ccs 807207 11441206 wrote:

I care nothing for tourney play. Or the needs/wants of those running them or playing in them.

If you play tournaments & hate the small board sizes? Well, you CHOSE to play in a crap environment.... You want a better play experience? Make a different choice of how/where to play.

It is not just tournaments, if smaller tables means that a store can have 3 set of people paying for the table instead of 2, they will do that. Especialy when the smaller table size means the tables are equal to the tables for infinity and historicals which are played at lower scale.
And because it is a good thing for all stores, the making a difference would have to include buying a flat, just to play w40k. Not something most people can do. Especialy consideirng the flat shortage caused by two world wars.

 Mezmorki wrote:
I just love the absolutely milking that has been GWs MO to release Space Marines 2.0 right at the end of an edition and invalidate it a few months later when the edition turns over, just to release another SM codex along with the new edition.

How many SM codexes can we sell people seems to be the mantra.

Indeed. But I have already sold my SM 9ed codex in order to wait for 2nd codex in the 9th.
Now you convinced me to wait for the SM 10ed codex.

Karol wrote:

ccs 807207 11441206 wrote:

I care nothing for tourney play. Or the needs/wants of those running them or playing in them.

If you play tournaments & hate the small board sizes? Well, you CHOSE to play in a crap environment.... You want a better play experience? Make a different choice of how/where to play.

It is not just tournaments, if smaller tables means that a store can have 3 set of people paying for the table instead of 2, they will do that. Especialy when the smaller table size means the tables are equal to the tables for infinity and historicals which are played at lower scale.
And because it is a good thing for all stores, the making a difference would have to include buying a flat, just to play w40k. Not something most people can do. Especialy consideirng the flat shortage caused by two world wars.

Not necessarily Karol. Smaller boards = more games = more players, fine.

Not such a good thing if the store is small and cramped to begin with, and most gaming stores are - having a huge number of people in said room can quickly get decidedly uncomfortable in terms of space, smell etc. Gamers will be the first to complain. And health and safety is a thing as well. Having lots of people in a room isn't always wanted or advisable.

If you struggle to fit in 2 6x4 boards? You’re not going to magic up more space for 3 5x3 boards, are you?

Now if we can put the conspiracy theories aside? Why 5x3 after all these years of 6x4 largely behind standard.

Go measure your dining table.

There’s your answer.

Deadnight 807207 11441492 wrote:

Not necessarily Karol. Smaller boards = more games = more players, fine.

Not such a good thing if the store is small and cramped to begin with, and most gaming stores are - having a huge number of people in said room can quickly get decidedly uncomfortable in terms of space, smell etc. Gamers will be the first to complain. And health and safety is a thing as well. Having lots of people in a room isn't always wanted or advisable.

They are not that small, and unless people play with chess clocks I didn't find games from 8th take longer then game on smaller tables in 9th ed.

Why 5x3 after all these years of 6x4 largely behind standard.

Here it ment the free space went to a table for the store owners friend to do his painting commissions at the store, which he couldn't do at home, because of lack of space at home. Good thing about it though is that the MtG vacated the venue and now only play at our KFC.
The kitchen table at my home is 50cmx75cm, which is something like around 19" to almost 29,5".

Karol wrote:

They are not that small, and unless people play with chess clocks I didn't find games from 8th take longer then game on smaller tables in 9th ed.

I've seen plenty small stores in my twenty years gaming, Karol. Getting 'as many games as possible on the go per square foot' isn't always either appropriate or advantageous, which was my point. I've done wmh tourneys in stores with maybe Two dozen players in space that would be cramped for six. It got very hot/stuffy/smelly/cramped very quick. People didn't go back for the next tournaments.

Deadnight wrote:

Karol wrote:

They are not that small, and unless people play with chess clocks I didn't find games from 8th take longer then game on smaller tables in 9th ed.

I've seen plenty small stores in my twenty years gaming, Karol. Getting 'as many games as possible on the go per square foot' isn't always either appropriate or advantageous, which was my point. I've done wmh tourneys in stores with maybe Two dozen players in space that would be cramped for six. It got very hot/stuffy/smelly/cramped very quick. People didn't go back for the next tournaments.

Yeah, the idea that reducing the board size was some plan to help FLGSs is weird. Even the largest ones around me didn't actually end up with more tables for 40k after the change in board size. They just ended up with a bit more space around the already existing tables. If they previously had 3 72" tables in a row they don't have enough space to get 4 60" tables in that same row so the change doesn't really do anything for them. At least one store didn't bother changing the size of their tables initially, probably because it was more hassle than it was worth.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If you struggle to fit in 2 6x4 boards? You’re not going to magic up more space for 3 5x3 boards, are you?

Now if we can put the conspiracy theories aside? Why 5x3 after all these years of 6x4 largely behind standard.

Go measure your dining table.

There’s your answer.

I haven't measured it but it most certainly is not 5ft x 3ft, but would love if it was!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If you struggle to fit in 2 6x4 boards? You’re not going to magic up more space for 3 5x3 boards, are you?

Now if we can put the conspiracy theories aside? Why 5x3 after all these years of 6x4 largely behind standard.

Go measure your dining table.

There’s your answer.

The board sizes are the way they are because it is two of the boards from the Kill Team(?) box put together. No other reason. That's it. No nebulous reasons of "balance". No need to take the scissors to that neoprene mat, as it is just a suggested size.

Much like the 40k community (particularly on Reddit) thinking there are "official base sizes" for 40k when there is nothing of the sort. There is no grand balancing maths behind this board size either and you can play on a 6x4 board to your heart's content, and I still will, just like I'll not rebase my minis to appease some tourney tryhards I'll never ever meet.

Slipspace wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

Karol wrote:

They are not that small, and unless people play with chess clocks I didn't find games from 8th take longer then game on smaller tables in 9th ed.

I've seen plenty small stores in my twenty years gaming, Karol. Getting 'as many games as possible on the go per square foot' isn't always either appropriate or advantageous, which was my point. I've done wmh tourneys in stores with maybe Two dozen players in space that would be cramped for six. It got very hot/stuffy/smelly/cramped very quick. People didn't go back for the next tournaments.

Yeah, the idea that reducing the board size was some plan to help FLGSs is weird. Even the largest ones around me didn't actually end up with more tables for 40k after the change in board size. They just ended up with a bit more space around the already existing tables. If they previously had 3 72" tables in a row they don't have enough space to get 4 60" tables in that same row so the change doesn't really do anything for them. At least one store didn't bother changing the size of their tables initially, probably because it was more hassle than it was worth.

It wasn't to help FLGS but to sell GW's own boards.

ITC etc tournament organizers then decided to adopt it when they realized they could cram more players to their tournaments for bigger profit as they admitted themselves. They were initially against the size but then "oh wait we can get more profit for same room? We are in!"

 Mezmorki wrote:
How many SM codexes can we sell people seems to be the mantra.

A big part of why I don't have a Space Marines army lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

I care nothing for tourney play. Or the needs/wants of those running them or playing in them.

If you play tournaments & hate the small board sizes? Well, you CHOSE to play in a crap environment.... You want a better play experience? Make a different choice of how/where to play.

It's my experience that the "Casual at all costs" crowd is even more toxic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

ccs 807207 11441206 wrote:It is not just tournaments, if smaller tables means that a store can have 3 set of people paying for the table instead of 2, they will do that. Especialy when the smaller table size means the tables are equal to the tables for infinity and historicals which are played at lower scale.

..But I thought nobody played Infinity where you were, Karol?

Also Infinity is played on 48" x 48", so better to have 6 x 4's than GW's bastard sizes.

Yeah, every game I know of is played on a 3x3, 4x4, 6x3, or 6x4. Historicals are mainly played on 6x4s, though some are 4x4s. Dunno where the idea that GWs smaller tables are helpful for other games came from, the opposite is true.

They are very helpful when you are playing on those cheap plastic foldable tables that are exactly 30" across.

[Aren't things generally supposed to get better when they're "refined"? Instead of going from "meh" to "raging dumpster fire, yet somehow still quite boring and flavorless"?

 Strg Alt wrote:
Nope. GW was never interested in releasing the "perfect" war game but rather try to dumb down the rules in order to appeal to a wider demographic and thus make more money.

The funny thing is they could streamline the feth out of their game and make it both more tactically deep and easier for newbs to understand. Look at the ASOIAF miniatures game for an example of a game that's easier to understand than 40k but has more tactical depth.

I just want to know what World Eaters are actually going to get.

Is it a Blood Tithe system from AoS? A Chaos version of the Miracle dice from Sisters? Maybe some anti Psyker support that actually works?

All the other codexes this year had massive leaks early on from rules to models.

We got Angron, the new Berserkers and a Lord on Juggernaut...

It’s amusing that some think a mythical tenth edition will magically fix everything and it would become a perfect game everybody loves to play.

Moorecox wrote:
It’s amusing that some think a mythical tenth edition will magically fix everything and it would become a perfect game everybody loves to play.

A mythical 10e could absolutely accomplish that.

The 10e that we'll recieve in this reality.... at best, not so much.

Moorecox wrote:
It’s amusing that some think a mythical tenth edition will magically fix everything and it would become a perfect game everybody loves to play.

10th that would do that is indeed mythical.

The 10th we get summer 2023 is real though so no suck luck.

AoC will be redone. Range, damage Strength and AP will be redone for all weapons. I see higher strength on some weapons, reduction on ap and damage adjusted.

Examples. 1. I dont see 48" anymore and AoC changing so they dont have to do too much with all the weapons. Most weapons should be AP0 and very little should have AP reduction and if so very little. You dont want things to keep changing and having AP keep going up