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Iracundus wrote:
Is this a new trend by GW?

First the Cthonian Berserks and now these Eightbound and Jakhals.

"I'm going to show how angry and good at close combat I am by taking off my armor and clothes to show off my bulging oiled up muscles"

I dunno. Sounds pretty Slaaneshi to me.

GW has been moving towards giving subfactions a discrete visual design while cutting down on general purpose units shared between the subfactions of a faction. It's hardly universal, but quite apparent in Chaos armies.

As such they need their Khorne Cultists look to match World Eaters. Regular civilian clothing is more of a general Cultist thing, so that works for Undivided but not Khorne. Culty clothes also fit vanilla Chaos Marines, Word Bearers and Tzeentch more. Raggedy is a Nurgle thing, spikes and leather a Slaanesh thing. GW could have gone with more armor, what with Khorne being the war god and all, but I suspect they wanted to stay with unarmored Cultists instead of making them armored semi-elite troops that wouldn't really be Cultist rabble anymore.

Since it's Khorne berserkers are the go to choice. It fits the theme, it's dead easy to settle on on a Friday afternoon when everyone just wants to go home, and it's something GW does all the time and For Khorne and Chaos in their fantasy games. Dead easy and well practiced. Berserkers that don't have bare chests aren't very traditional about the whole berserker thing, so it's understandable that they're going with that. Mind you, that's guy berserkers. Girl berserkers keep their shirts on. Which, depending on your view of how Slaanesh should be handled, is either not very Slaaneshi because no boobs or not very Slaaneshi because no refined outfits. Either way, I can't say I'm getting any Slaaneshi vibes from these guys myself.

 bullyboy wrote:
Ok, so the first book has all the rules for boarding actions plus missions, so what the Hell is in the other ones? Rules for Vashtor in 3rd obviously, but that would be pretty thin.

It's only 500pts games so far. I reckon more scenarios for higher points values are easy filler. Combine that with environmental rules and they could at least fill the second book fairly easily.

I can't see how they'd stretch it further than that in any halfway meaningful way if they stick with boarding action as the rules' theme. They might move on to another environmental type as the narrative progresses.

There are a lot of dark angels vs world eater vibes going on. From the Eightfold's helmet trophy, to that shot of the world eaters fighting against them. I would have thought Grey Knights would have been the go-to army for a campaign, but maybe we'll get Azrael in the Angron Arks of Omen book

I wouldn't read too much into the helmets. Green is simply a complimentary colour to red. It stands out nicely as a trophy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Isn't ark of omens pretty much just a clone of broken realms? Down to each book being named after a character? If so, there's your lead in to tenth.

Yes. And with 15 pages of fluff per book.

That'll be $80x4 please.

14-40 would be 26 pages, not 15 (assuming everything on pages 30-39 are "Reprisals", and that's all background material).

Still not brilliant, but 66% better than you're presenting.

An "Introduction" going from page 3 to 14 is... weird. Might be there's some more background in there?

 Dysartes wrote:
14-40 would be 26 pages, not 15 (assuming everything on pages 30-39 are "Reprisals", and that's all background material).

Still not brilliant, but 66% better than you're presenting.

Removed - grow up

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
14-40 would be 26 pages, not 15 (assuming everything on pages 30-39 are "Reprisals", and that's all background material).

Still not brilliant, but 66% better than you're presenting.

Removed - grow up

You're welcome!

 Olthannon wrote:
Vashtorr is excellent, I love the head and the spindly nature. I love the idea behind him. I would love to do a small army made of him and Chaos servitors that had realised what they had become and sworn to destroy the Imperium that created their hideous life. I think clearly the Dark Mechanicum will be part of his stuff. It seems that they would worship Vashtorr. I might turn him into a Tech Priest for my Admech.

I won't be doing any Mechanicum, dark or light, but I will absolutely be getting Vashtorr when that kit is released. So, is $170 the expected price?

 Ghaz wrote:
New Beastlord looks nice and plump.

Kinda pity he replaces one of the best Beastmen model, though. Wish he was just update of current one in plastic and with modern proportions, that combination of chainmail and spiked leather looked really ace...

 Sersi wrote:
I'd say he's better than Dark Mechanicus...which we'll probably get eventually. An agent of the Forge of Souls, and Chaos Undivided.

Yup, I am tired of mountain after mountain of pointless, redundant chaos gak but fleshing out old, sorely lacking representation in fluff faction is one thing GW should be doing. Wish he looked more mechanical, though, like Maulerfiend, less like a human with random metal bits stuck on.

On a side note, Vashtorr is very specifically not daemon prince, or any of other things Valrak randomly rambled he will 100% be. That sure shut up the two joke Valrak sockpuppets (that polluted multiple thread pages gloating he was ""right"" when he presented stuff he stole without credit from actually reliable source) right quick, eh?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Thanks.

Being wrong by 3x (or 4x if 'showcase' is fluff too seeing it doesn't come with any new models to show) is pedantry now?

 Breotan wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Vashtorr is excellent, I love the head and the spindly nature. I love the idea behind him. I would love to do a small army made of him and Chaos servitors that had realised what they had become and sworn to destroy the Imperium that created their hideous life. I think clearly the Dark Mechanicum will be part of his stuff. It seems that they would worship Vashtorr. I might turn him into a Tech Priest for my Admech.

I won't be doing any Mechanicum, dark or light, but I will absolutely be getting Vashtorr when that kit is released. So, is $170 the expected price?

Going by size (80mm base IIRC), I'd guess Avatar of Khaine or void Dragon over Greater Daemon pricing

Vash looks amazing. The 8 demon guys look terrible they belong in age of sigmar.

It's HBMC.

He's either right or you're "ignored" for being mean.

 TalonZahn wrote:
It's HBMC.

He's either right or you're "ignored" for being mean.

Or yet another example of Americans not understanding Brit/Aussie humour...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
It's HBMC.

He's either right or you're "ignored" for being mean.

Or yet another example of Americans not understanding Brit/Aussie humour...

Yea, that's not it at all.

He just gets away with acting like an ass more than anyone around here because he has some tangential attachment to the gaming community at large because he writes here and there for games.

 Geifer wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Is this a new trend by GW?

First the Cthonian Berserks and now these Eightbound and Jakhals.

"I'm going to show how angry and good at close combat I am by taking off my armor and clothes to show off my bulging oiled up muscles"

I dunno. Sounds pretty Slaaneshi to me.

GW has been moving towards giving subfactions a discrete visual design while cutting down on general purpose units shared between the subfactions of a faction. It's hardly universal, but quite apparent in Chaos armies.

As such they need their Khorne Cultists look to match World Eaters. Regular civilian clothing is more of a general Cultist thing, so that works for Undivided but not Khorne. Culty clothes also fit vanilla Chaos Marines, Word Bearers and Tzeentch more. Raggedy is a Nurgle thing, spikes and leather a Slaanesh thing. GW could have gone with more armor, what with Khorne being the war god and all, but I suspect they wanted to stay with unarmored Cultists instead of making them armored semi-elite troops that wouldn't really be Cultist rabble anymore.

Since it's Khorne berserkers are the go to choice. It fits the theme, it's dead easy to settle on on a Friday afternoon when everyone just wants to go home, and it's something GW does all the time and For Khorne and Chaos in their fantasy games. Dead easy and well practiced. Berserkers that don't have bare chests aren't very traditional about the whole berserker thing, so it's understandable that they're going with that. Mind you, that's guy berserkers. Girl berserkers keep their shirts on. Which, depending on your view of how Slaanesh should be handled, is either not very Slaaneshi because no boobs or not very Slaaneshi because no refined outfits. Either way, I can't say I'm getting any Slaaneshi vibes from these guys myself.

They're gagged, oiled up and muscled and taking tanks full of stimms. Yes, Slaaneeshi cultists would have less ridiculous swords, but the overlap is far more than it should be.

----
The other aspect to the WE release is how its another example of GW designers being completely out of touch with each other. Techno Daemon Vashtorr is a strange reversal to the original chaos fluff (though with a new character): an independent daemonic entity that has no reliance on the Big Four, something that 40k writers have been systematically downplaying and eliminating for decades now. Yet at the same time, whoever was involved in this project felt they needed to chase the dragon into full Flanderization, and keep rejecting the idea that WE could be anything but crazed axe maniacs, to the point that everything is gone. Something that obviously doesn't happen to loyalist close combat chapters, and its something that wasn't in the original Khornate fluff, where mutations fused ranged weapons onto limbs and the bulk of daemon engines with cannons and guns were solidly khornate.

Somehow GW is going back to the original well for new stuff, but still making a farce out of the chaos factions that have been around the longest (and had a full army list with devastators, chaplains, and etc. from the word go)

 Breotan wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Vashtorr is excellent, I love the head and the spindly nature. I love the idea behind him. I would love to do a small army made of him and Chaos servitors that had realised what they had become and sworn to destroy the Imperium that created their hideous life. I think clearly the Dark Mechanicum will be part of his stuff. It seems that they would worship Vashtorr. I might turn him into a Tech Priest for my Admech.

I won't be doing any Mechanicum, dark or light, but I will absolutely be getting Vashtorr when that kit is released. So, is $170 the expected price?

I don't think he's that big. I'd guess closer to Void Dragon price and they are on the same base size. So around 115.

 Sasori wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Vashtorr is excellent, I love the head and the spindly nature. I love the idea behind him. I would love to do a small army made of him and Chaos servitors that had realised what they had become and sworn to destroy the Imperium that created their hideous life. I think clearly the Dark Mechanicum will be part of his stuff. It seems that they would worship Vashtorr. I might turn him into a Tech Priest for my Admech.

I won't be doing any Mechanicum, dark or light, but I will absolutely be getting Vashtorr when that kit is released. So, is $170 the expected price?

I don't think he's that big. I'd guess closer to Void Dragon price and they are on the same base size. So around 115.

They better bloody not be 170

Interesting that they say the 4th Ark of Omens book is going to be Xenos focused.

Complete speculation here but maybe something Eldar related since they always seem to get involved to be anti-Chaos? Maybe that could be how GW updates the Eldar range which still needs updating, in dribs and drabs by this kind of narrative based expansion?

Iracundus wrote:
Interesting that they say the 4th Ark of Omens book is going to be Xenos focused.

Complete speculation here but maybe something Eldar related since they always seem to get involved to be anti-Chaos? Maybe that could be how GW updates the Eldar range which still needs updating, in dribs and drabs by this kind of narrative based expansion?

If it drops in the spring it might be the lead in for the op force for the 10th starter. There were Nid rumors for that.

A lot depends on the timing, and how accurate that old rumor is. It could just be a splash release of a character/unit/kill team.

Iracundus wrote:
Interesting that they say the 4th Ark of Omens book is going to be Xenos focused.

And each book is named after a specific character, so what character could it be, and could it be an excuse to release an updated plastic character model? Like, Asurmen? Baharoth? Farsight?

None of these would necessitate new (matched play) rules, but would shift something from metal/resin into plastic.

 TalonZahn wrote:
He just gets away with acting like an ass more than anyone around here because he has some tangential attachment to the gaming community at large because he writes here and there for games.

You spend a weird amount of time discussing me rather than the topic. Go find something else to do. You'll be happier for it.

Iracundus wrote:
Interesting that they say the 4th Ark of Omens book is going to be Xenos focused.

Complete speculation here but maybe something Eldar related since they always seem to get involved to be anti-Chaos? Maybe that could be how GW updates the Eldar range which still needs updating, in dribs and drabs by this kind of narrative based expansion?

Rumor is saying it may be Farsight... which could make some sense with the Arkifanes story. If it wasn't for the fact that Necrons were featured at the start of the edition, I would say it's one of their characters. Could easily have seen Szeras or Orikan, especially with that rumor mill that looks very much like a Necron.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Interesting that they say the 4th Ark of Omens book is going to be Xenos focused.

And each book is named after a specific character, so what character could it be, and could it be an excuse to release an updated plastic character model? Like, Asurmen? Baharoth? Farsight?

None of these would necessitate new (matched play) rules, but would shift something from metal/resin into plastic.

 TalonZahn wrote:
He just gets away with acting like an ass more than anyone around here because he has some tangential attachment to the gaming community at large because he writes here and there for games.

You spend a weird amount of time discussing me rather than the topic. Go find something else to do. You'll be happier for it.

Merely a passing thought.

Put me back on Ignore please.

The 4th Omen in the Bible is the Devourer of the Earth. So either Nids' or World Eaters would be my guess.

1 - Chaos/Abaddon is back
2 - Demon appears
3 - War

World eaters are hardly a xenos now are they?

Also there's omen "Angron". World eaters are unlikely to be focus of 2 books.

Voss wrote:

Spoiler:

 Geifer wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Is this a new trend by GW?

First the Cthonian Berserks and now these Eightbound and Jakhals.

"I'm going to show how angry and good at close combat I am by taking off my armor and clothes to show off my bulging oiled up muscles"

I dunno. Sounds pretty Slaaneshi to me.

GW has been moving towards giving subfactions a discrete visual design while cutting down on general purpose units shared between the subfactions of a faction. It's hardly universal, but quite apparent in Chaos armies.

As such they need their Khorne Cultists look to match World Eaters. Regular civilian clothing is more of a general Cultist thing, so that works for Undivided but not Khorne. Culty clothes also fit vanilla Chaos Marines, Word Bearers and Tzeentch more. Raggedy is a Nurgle thing, spikes and leather a Slaanesh thing. GW could have gone with more armor, what with Khorne being the war god and all, but I suspect they wanted to stay with unarmored Cultists instead of making them armored semi-elite troops that wouldn't really be Cultist rabble anymore.

Since it's Khorne berserkers are the go to choice. It fits the theme, it's dead easy to settle on on a Friday afternoon when everyone just wants to go home, and it's something GW does all the time and For Khorne and Chaos in their fantasy games. Dead easy and well practiced. Berserkers that don't have bare chests aren't very traditional about the whole berserker thing, so it's understandable that they're going with that. Mind you, that's guy berserkers. Girl berserkers keep their shirts on. Which, depending on your view of how Slaanesh should be handled, is either not very Slaaneshi because no boobs or not very Slaaneshi because no refined outfits. Either way, I can't say I'm getting any Slaaneshi vibes from these guys myself.

They're gagged, oiled up and muscled and taking tanks full of stimms. Yes, Slaaneeshi cultists would have less ridiculous swords, but the overlap is far more than it should be.

Nah. they wear skull masks because skulls are Khorne's thing. They don't cover themselves to make it easier to spill blood in the name of Khorne. They're hooked up to blood tanks to get instant transfusions when they spill their own blood in the name of Khorne so they can keep spilling their own blood and harvesting more blood and skulls from their enemies in the name of Khorne.

It's cranked up, super focused Khorne fetish for maximum flanderization.

At this point I think GW needs to do something besides having Tyranids as the distant bad guy. It works well in a roleplaying setting, but when you have people investing in the character of the force it becomes a bit stale over time.

So I hope that the 4th book is a return to a new form for Tyranids along with the 10th edition starter. They truly need some TLC.

There was, however, a rumor indicating that the Lion and Farsight would be getting plastic sculpts in the coming year. I do wonder if they somehow play into all of this.

I could see Tau or Tau Auxiliaries being the big bad for a season. Whilst the mech suit side of Tau is well supported, the Kroot and Xenos side is really undersupported in the extreme. I could see GW focusing on that for an edition as a big story point of Xenos races flocking under the Tau banner; letting GW create lots of new one squad xenos forces for an auxiliaries force for Tau = perhaps similar to how Warcry works for Slaves to Darkness in AoS.

There's a lot of scope there for fresh creativity and diversity and pushing part of the story of the setting forward.

I would love it if they bring out an unstealthed version of the XV15 suits to give Tau a Terminator-esque unit.

 Overread wrote:
I could see Tau or Tau Auxiliaries being the big bad for a season. Whilst the mech suit side of Tau is well supported, the Kroot and Xenos side is really undersupported in the extreme. I could see GW focusing on that for an edition as a big story point of Xenos races flocking under the Tau banner; letting GW create lots of new one squad xenos forces for an auxiliaries force for Tau = perhaps similar to how Warcry works for Slaves to Darkness in AoS.

There's a lot of scope there for fresh creativity and diversity and pushing part of the story of the setting forward.

I can't see Tau being the bad guys at all. If Farsight is the focus of the final book, I think it would be the Arkifane using their innovation to achieve godhood or step up.

Spent all weekend on a plane so was good to finally sit down and look into this.

So many cool kits and stuff but I have to confess that the goat video made my day XD XD XD

I mean it's all set on space hulks, so presumably some Tyranid action.

The 4th book is not the final book. There are more planned beyond that, so I very much doubt that the Xenos race will be setting up 10th as the new big bad.

From WHC
The fourth book will be a distinctly xenos affair, however. We’ll have more on that next year, along with news on the rest of the series