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oh. But he was the dude that worked with the Chaos dwarfs right?

Not Online!!! wrote:
oh. But he was the dude that worked with the Chaos dwarfs right?

Yep the Maggot Lord

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tamurkhan

I like a retro sculpt as much if not more than the next guy but that Bretonnian Lord is a huge pile of nope. He looks more like some kind of weird elf character with that messed up face.

Voss wrote:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the complaints about the unit being nerfed are real loud. (The 4+ ward save went to a 6+, iirc) And white lions are their own set of complaints, for their axes not being special enough (still 'strike last,' (plus elven reflexes and/or charge modifiers))

The White Lions I remember didnt get any special axes or waepons abilities. The lions instead had some woodsmen ability to ignore difficult terrain, and, I think, some bonus to leadership for beeing the traditional bodyguard of the lords. Likewise, phoenixguard didnt get any special weapons or great ward save, their niche was fearles/causing fear together with the regular +1S bonus to halberds. This was ofcourse pre 6th edition I think.
White Lions are pretty cool though, and had fairly new models in 8th, so I would not mind if they got some gimmik that made them popular in YT battlereports.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sorry what's Tammurkhan?

The Everchosen before Archaon.

He wasn’t an Everchosen (the last one was Asavar Kul who will be important for TOW)

He was a Nurgle Chaos Lord who invaded the Empire via Blackfire Pass and attacked Nuln.

FW did a book about him and made a model.

The book we got was a rewrite of the intended first book of a trilogy. It wasn't a reboot, though, it was meant to be an alternate timeline where the End Times happened. For reasons we are now aware of(GW leaving themselves open to do the End Times in the mainline), those plans were changed.

Wasn’t the plan for the Forge World warhammer books to lead up to the destruction of the old world? I’ve heard that was the plan king before the end times. Honestly, it would likely have been better written

Edit: I guess I just reiterated the last post

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sorry what's Tammurkhan?

The Everchosen before Archaon.

He wasn’t an Everchosen (the last one was Asavar Kul who will be important for TOW)

He was a Nurgle Chaos Lord who invaded the Empire via Blackfire Pass and attacked Nuln.

FW did a book about him and made a model.

Fingers crossed they release an Asavar Kul model, I'll be first in line to buy one if they do!

 Fayric wrote:

Voss wrote:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the complaints about the unit being nerfed are real loud. (The 4+ ward save went to a 6+, iirc) And white lions are their own set of complaints, for their axes not being special enough (still 'strike last,' (plus elven reflexes and/or charge modifiers))

The White Lions I remember didnt get any special axes or waepons abilities. The lions instead had some woodsmen ability to ignore difficult terrain, and, I think, some bonus to leadership for beeing the traditional bodyguard of the lords. Likewise, phoenixguard didnt get any special weapons or great ward save, their niche was fearles/causing fear together with the regular +1S bonus to halberds. This was ofcourse pre 6th edition I think.
White Lions are pretty cool though, and had fairly new models in 8th, so I would not mind if they got some gimmik that made them popular in YT battlereports.

White Lions were base S4 (high for an Elf) and the pelts they wore gave +2 armour against ranged.

 KidCthulhu wrote:

Because of course they do! Just another reason I hated fighting High Elves...

To be fair, PG went from 5+/4++ to 4+/6++, them getting to support in 1 extra rank seems fine.
They're still "only" S4 even with Halberds, so not too scary.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

Voss wrote:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the complaints about the unit being nerfed are real loud. (The 4+ ward save went to a 6+, iirc) And white lions are their own set of complaints, for their axes not being special enough (still 'strike last,' (plus elven reflexes and/or charge modifiers))

The White Lions I remember didnt get any special axes or waepons abilities. The lions instead had some woodsmen ability to ignore difficult terrain, and, I think, some bonus to leadership for beeing the traditional bodyguard of the lords. Likewise, phoenixguard didnt get any special weapons or great ward save, their niche was fearles/causing fear together with the regular +1S bonus to halberds. This was ofcourse pre 6th edition I think.
White Lions are pretty cool though, and had fairly new models in 8th, so I would not mind if they got some gimmik that made them popular in YT battlereports.

White Lions were base S4 (high for an Elf) and the pelts they wore gave +2 armour against ranged.

Some editions WL's had different stances with the axe - bit like Dryads and aspects or Wardancers and dances

Lion Claw: A killing blow to the neck employed against large monsters.
Lion Leaping: Using their agility and speed, the warrior catches his foe off balance by barging over them.
Lion Rampant: The warrior uses the thick haft of their axe to blunt the force of the enemies onslaught

 Wyzilla wrote:
... but everything else looks surprisingly... good for once from GW.

Unless you played Savage Orcs.

What makes them so bad then?

Hoffa76 wrote:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Seem clear that the 'standard' tournament game will be 1999 points then.

Wouldn't it be easier to just impose a one behemoth limit? 1999 would punish those who take stuff that exceeds what they could take at 1000, but don't max it out. For example, I want two great cannons and two mortars at 2000 points, why should I be treated like the guy taking 6 great cannons?

Dragon-knight77 wrote:

Bretonnian=Hapburg

That's Habsburg-Lothringen, peasant!

chaos0xomega wrote:

Hellcannons appear to have been heavily nerfed as well.

~cries crocodile tear~

Lord Zarkov wrote:
FW did a book about him and made a model.

Aye, but the best model from that book was this fair lady. Intentionally miscasting boosted purple suns into the flanks of chaos stunties at Adepticon was GLORIOUS!!!




I've just watched a review of the standard magic lores. My main concerns were boosting the chances of my state troops not fleeing and boosting the chances of my greatswords getting the charge and/or having equal or higher initiative. Sadly, I found really just one thing in the first category, glittering robe. Happily, I can just take that on a cheap as chips L1 illusionist, and he can cower at the back of the unit if challenged. Sadly, I was planning two blocks of swordsmen in 2k points, so that means I need two L1s, I can't just take one and throw the buff where it's more urgently needed.

For the greatswords, no question. They get a L3/4 daemonologist, depending on whether a magic item to get a bonus spell is cheaper than the bonus level. Three of the six spells are really good for making the response to "will it blend?" and emphatic "yes!" Gathering darkness ensures that anything but elves will strike, if it can, after the greatswords, on the charge, and dramatically increases the likelihood of them breaking. Daemonic vessel just makes them ever so much nastier on a per model basis, which doesn't really help with initiative, but if they don't go first, more than doubles the effectiveness of the models that do still get to fight. Daemonic vigour is the best one, though, increasing their charge range and their initiative, really boosting their chance of functioning as intended. All of this is of course on top of the Ulrican priest's battle howl, although if winter's chill is natural 6s, then that in combination with glittering robe would let them shrug a lot of enemy swings and just wait for initiative step one to wreck face.

tneva82 wrote:
What makes them so bad then?

They are now unit upgrades and you are limited how many you can have - same with Lords/ heroes so its hard to make a full army of them - hopefully will get a Journal list.

Ahh the lovely Elspeth - great model and character - much more interesting (IMO) than Gelt

Okay that is pretty irritating.

Though if they don't get infamy army I'm somewhat surprised.

tneva82 wrote:
What makes them so bad then?

You can't really do them as any army anymore, as Savage Orc units don't exist as separate choices. They're upgrades to a limited amount of units in your army.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Ahh the lovely Elspeth

Yes, the Graveyard Rose, Magistrix of the Amethyst College.

tneva82 wrote:
Halberd never gave extra rank in FB. It was extra strenght(and with that AP generally) without strike last disadvantage of GW.

Extra rank came a thing in AOS due to 2" reach.

Yeah they categorised halberds more as light great weapons rather than heavy 'great spears'.

Given that most historical polearms were rarely longer than 2 metres, they fit within the great weapon scale anyway.

Real ranked spears were 3 metres + long. The tiny spears all the WFB models carry are more like throwing spears than real ranking spears.

I'm curious how they're going to handle future releases.. I assume like Bret/TK, so a box and then slowly re-release the boxes. I may need to jump onto Empire when that comes out (although personally I think the GW state troops models are atrocious compared to 3d printed, they look like ape-men).

For now though, picking up TK box this weekend, although I'm not looking forward to dealing with those 20 year old sculpts. The Dragon is kinda meh to me, it looks out of place in the rest of the army, but I'm not sure why.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm curious how they're going to handle future releases..

I wonder if they'll continue putting a rulebook in future army releases.

Wayniac wrote:


The Dragon is kinda meh to me, it looks out of place in the rest of the army, but I'm not sure why.

You don't think it has something to do with it not being a 20 year old sculpt?

chaos0xomega wrote:

Wayniac wrote:


The Dragon is kinda meh to me, it looks out of place in the rest of the army, but I'm not sure why.

You don't think it has something to do with it not being a 20 year old sculpt?

Very well could be. The aesthetics don't seem to match the rest. I think before that the last model made for TK was the Necrosphinx, right? Which ties into the army visually. The dragon does not. Maybe it will look better in person. TBH would have preferred the Necrotitan or whatever it's called (Hierotitan? No that's a Tyranid I think) since it exists but never had a model.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
What makes them so bad then?

You can't really do them as any army anymore, as Savage Orc units don't exist as separate choices. They're upgrades to a limited amount of units in your army.

My unit of 40 will become regular ork boyz with spears and shields.
Fortunately I don't have any savage orc cav, but they would just become regular orc boar boyz if I did.

My great joy is that snotling pump wagons are still available so I can use mine:

Those are fantastic!

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Halberds in Fantasy just give you -1 AP and +1 strength while not losing your initiative as with great weapons.They counter cav by allowing you to wound them on 3's and punching through a -1 of their tough armor, but that's it. However considering hand weapons are still S4 for warriors, they get a +1 to their save from shields, and they get a -1 to their AP from enscrolled weapons (which strangely are lost if they take two HW's), there's really no point to the halberd on warriors. Or Chosen for that matter.

 KidCthulhu wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Normal halberds, no.
Phoenix guard have special halberds that do.

Because of course they do! Just another reason I hated fighting High Elves...

Unlike Chaos Warriors, Phoenix Guard also get full plate.

Wayniac wrote:
TBH would have preferred the Necrotitan or whatever it's called (Hierotitan? No that's a Tyranid I think) since it exists but never had a model.

Hierotitan is correct. AFAIK, the first "official" appearance of it was in TW:WH2.

Voss wrote:

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Normal halberds, no.
Phoenix guard have special halberds that do.

I guess Halberds don't count as polearms, then?

According to Sprues & Brews:

The Combat Phase probably has some of the bigger changes in the game. One biggie is the number of models that can fight. With the old Horde rule gone, in the majority of cases it’s only the first rank that can fight (Spears can fight in two ranks in they are charged, and some weapons such as polearms can always fight in two ranks)

https://spruesandbrews.com/2024/01/06/warhammer-the-old-world-rulebook-review-and-kingdom-of-bretonnia-edition-unboxing/

If that's the case, I guess "polearms" mean things like pikes?

I really like how GW is encouraging conversions in arcane journals and suggesting a creative use for the helper for the new Bret lord. May seem like nothing to some people but it feels like it’s harkens back to a time long past before they were a publicly traded company and obsessed with copyrighting every single thing ever. Back when it was a hobby and the focus was on having fun not selling models. Now figure out your production issues GWubs!

 nathan2004 wrote:
I really like how GW is encouraging conversions in arcane journals and suggesting a creative use for the helper for the new Bret lord. May seem like nothing to some people but it feels like it’s harkens back to a time long past before they were a publicly traded company and obsessed with copyrighting every single thing ever. Back when it was a hobby and the focus was on having fun not selling models. Now figure out your production issues GWubs!

Agreed!
I was quite surprised at that article about making your own rank fillers to boost your infantry units up in size as well. Especially now it seems wider frontage units can have more attacks or something. So it's a win for creative themed units/forces and good in rules too hehe.

Anyway it's great to see GW encouraging conversions. I thought for some time now that Blood Bowl was probably one of the last games that allowed for conversions with the rules inclusion of mercenaries but it's fun the original 'Old World' game setting reboot is going this way too.

 Aesthete wrote:
I guess Halberds don't count as polearms, then?

According to Sprues & Brews:

The Combat Phase probably has some of the bigger changes in the game. One biggie is the number of models that can fight. With the old Horde rule gone, in the majority of cases it’s only the first rank that can fight (Spears can fight in two ranks in they are charged, and some weapons such as polearms can always fight in two ranks)

https://spruesandbrews.com/2024/01/06/warhammer-the-old-world-rulebook-review-and-kingdom-of-bretonnia-edition-unboxing/

If that's the case, I guess "polearms" mean things like pikes?

The polearms they are referring to are the weapons for Men At Arms for Bretonnia.