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 GaroRobe wrote:

Have the prices for the MTO dwarfs dropped yet?

Made-to-order models are Direct Only and their prices are not usually available in advance.

Warriors of Chaos wave 1 and Dwarf MTO at the same weekend will cause 2D6 Mortal Wounds to my wallet, that is for sure.

Only AOS and blood bowl model reveals at NOVA

 GaroRobe wrote:
I hope the NOVA preview has models and isn’t just a roadmap presentation

Have the prices for the MTO dwarfs dropped yet?

The article literally says it’s a roadmap update for TOW: the actual presentation is for AoS and Blood Bowl.

I'm hoping the giant chaos spawn rules will let me use my slaughterbrute as a proxy! Hopefully its wounds and toughness will be suitable.

Guess the warpfire dragon is wave 2?

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I hope the NOVA preview has models and isn’t just a roadmap presentation

Have the prices for the MTO dwarfs dropped yet?

The article literally says it’s a roadmap update for TOW: the actual presentation is for AoS and Blood Bowl.

As relevant actual information goes, I don't hate a roadmap for TOW. Any new or very old sculpts returning will be a pleasant surprise later on, but the Chaos release has now shown that it's perfectly possible for a re-release wave to be pretty bare bones, and we have seen enough so far to know that the broad formula is "most recent release of a set that is not used in AoS". I.e., just knowing the faction gives us a good idea of what sets to expect.

Had a look if there were even many former WHFB kits left in AoS these days, or if there will be a few more odd re-releases of older models (like the Nigh Goblins and Giant) because the most recent WHFB ones are still taken by AoS.
For High Elves, that shouldn't be a problem, as I'm not sure if any of their kits are left in AoS anymore - none that I can see at least.
Wood Elves have mostly disappeared over the years too, but the plastic treeman (from 8th) and dryads (6th edition) are still in the Sylvaneth. Could see GW re-release the metal 6th ed treeman instead (the Forces of Fantasy book allows for base sizes matching both the 8th and 6th versions), but not sure how they'd handle the dryads - the same plastics were used in 6th-8th, and the prior metal ones are stylistically very different. Does anyone know if they're pictured in the book at all?
Empire has a few more plastics still in use in AoS, with Cities of Sigmar featuring the wizards, griffon, steam tank, hurricanum/luminark and flagellants.

I suppose the former WHFB models since purged from AoS (like the Wood Elves previously in Cities of Sigmar) have just been quietly removed from successive army lists over editions or so? All things considered, there are only a handful of kits left (for forces set to return to WHFB at the moment), so in theory some could be replaced in AoS with new sets (for similar, if not the same unit) still, or dropped from those ranges depending on what role they fulfill in those armies.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I hope the NOVA preview has models and isn’t just a roadmap presentation

Have the prices for the MTO dwarfs dropped yet?

The article literally says it’s a roadmap update for TOW: the actual presentation is for AoS and Blood Bowl.

As relevant actual information goes, I don't hate a roadmap for TOW. Any new or very old sculpts returning will be a pleasant surprise later on, but the Chaos release has now shown that it's perfectly possible for a re-release wave to be pretty bare bones, and we have seen enough so far to know that the broad formula is "most recent release of a set that is not used in AoS". I.e., just knowing the faction gives us a good idea of what sets to expect.

Had a look if there were even many former WHFB kits left in AoS these days, or if there will be a few more odd re-releases of older models (like the Nigh Goblins and Giant) because the most recent WHFB ones are still taken by AoS.
For High Elves, that shouldn't be a problem, as I'm not sure if any of their kits are left in AoS anymore - none that I can see at least.
Wood Elves have mostly disappeared over the years too, but the plastic treeman (from 8th) and dryads (6th edition) are still in the Sylvaneth. Could see GW re-release the metal 6th ed treeman instead (the Forces of Fantasy book allows for base sizes matching both the 8th and 6th versions), but not sure how they'd handle the dryads - the same plastics were used in 6th-8th, and the prior metal ones are stylistically very different. Does anyone know if they're pictured in the book at all?
Empire has a few more plastics still in use in AoS, with Cities of Sigmar featuring the wizards, griffon, steam tank, hurricanum/luminark and flagellants.

I suppose the former WHFB models since purged from AoS (like the Wood Elves previously in Cities of Sigmar) have just been quietly removed from successive army lists over editions or so? All things considered, there are only a handful of kits left (for forces set to return to WHFB at the moment), so in theory some could be replaced in AoS with new sets (for similar, if not the same unit) still, or dropped from those ranges depending on what role they fulfill in those armies.

I don't mind a roadmap myself. But then I'm not really too worried about TOW itself and just been treating it as if it was one big made to order run for WFB. A roadmap would let me continue to plan purchases going forward as I'm still buying quite a lot of second hand and alternative kits for WFB, especially for things like dogs of war or other armies that might not see a return. I'd be able to pause on picking anything up that might be coming back sooner to avoid over paying for some of those rarer items that might randomly appear on the made to orders (Though so far, I've been a pretty good judge on whats been returning and what hasn't and only been stung for over paying a couple of € for some of the plastic night goblins that I honestly never saw coming back)

I think they showed off the metal dryads in one of the facebook/WarComm posts a while back for wood elves, rather than the plastic ones. I'd say we are likely to see the metal ones return and a new set released for AoS when they get their 4th Ed AoS update to separate the forces completely. We might see the plastic kit 're-released' then for TOW once its removed, a bit like the recent dwarf sets.

So the warriors of chaos are definitely more of an undivided faction at this point. That explains the lack of juggerknights, seekers, etc.

I dunno if I’m crazy about the idea of the tribes and warriors largely being unfamiliar with the big four. Scylla is confirmed to still be a human at this time but I’m pretty sure he openly worshiped khorne

It's pretty common lore all over that many worshippers of Chaos have no idea its Chaos. That Chaos Greater Demons will often pose as other deities and latch onto local traditions in order to twist and turn them to their own ideals.

There used to be plenty of scope for both approaches, it’s a shame one of them has been hampered, albeit it only slightly in real game terms.

 Overread wrote:
It's pretty common lore all over that many worshippers of Chaos have no idea its Chaos. That Chaos Greater Demons will often pose as other deities and latch onto local traditions in order to twist and turn them to their own ideals.

That’s sort of the idea behind a lot of the warcry warbands

I still wish they’d allow for more god specific armies and units as well. I’m not sure if they’re not included because of the god specific AOS factions but that’s likely the reason

 GaroRobe wrote:
So the warriors of chaos are definitely more of an undivided faction at this point. That explains the lack of juggerknights, seekers, etc.

I dunno if I’m crazy about the idea of the tribes and warriors largely being unfamiliar with the big four. Scylla is confirmed to still be a human at this time but I’m pretty sure he openly worshiped khorne

Norscans, at least, don't call the gods by their names iirc.

But Norscans realize they are worshipping Chaos right?

Apologies in advance if this is an ignorant question but compared to where we are at in the setting right now, how far off is the Siege of Praag in terms of years? Seems like a significant event made more so by the failure of the 11th everchosen (which I didn't know and just learned).

Norscans and the other tribesmen worship their gods who are rivals to the gods of the south. Just as the majority of the Empire worships their gods (Sigmar etc.) who oppose the gods of the north. Both sides think they’re right.

Ultimately only a very, very few people, mostly elves and wizards, know enough about the greater conflict to even name the sides chaos and order.

We get an omniscient overview that only the Slann in-setting even begin to approach having.

Can't say I particularly like the idea that the 4 gods aren't particularly prominent at this time. Feels like retrospectively trying to work in the fact that AOS has made them more independent. I've got no issue with Norscans not understanding that the Carrion Crow is a Chaos God, in fact it's quite narratively complex and realistic from an anthropological/religious perspective, but not having god specific units in Chaos armies is a bit meh. You can have the 4 gods being prominent while still being subservient to a Undivided whole, it's how WHFB often did it. If I was being somewhat cynical, I'd suggest that the de-emphasising of the individual gods was done to reduce the scope of relaunching Chaos Warriors, back when TOW had the previously refrenced smaller scope.

Likewise I really dislike the continued pushing in articles that Archaon was always fated to destroy the Old World. Bleugh. I hope that doesn't leak more into the lore sections of the books, other than the couple throwaway sentences in the core rulebook. I know why they're doing it, it's probably corporate mandate to make it clear that AOS will happen and nothing is changing - if not corporate mandate than internal mandate for consistency purposes, but I still hate it.

I do like them expanding upon Asavar Kul's rise to power though. I had assumed Frydaal was going to be Valkia. It's interesting to have a whole new character to look into and fairly strongly hints that we're going to see a number of lesser Chaos characters emerge as the storyline develops.

Since Norsca wasn't really defined in the foundational lore of 4th edition, it's really just been a 'make it up as you go, who really cares,' situation done in the post-foundational lore. I think an actual civilization would have been a neat idea, but like pretty much everything from the late 90s forward it got dumbed up and Norscans are a bunch of savage tribesmen knowingly or unknowingly worshipping Chaos and basically sitting around doing nothing all day except wanting to appear in a game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

 nathan2004 wrote:
But Norscans realize they are worshipping Chaos right?

Apologies in advance if this is an ignorant question but compared to where we are at in the setting right now, how far off is the Siege of Praag in terms of years? Seems like a significant event made more so by the failure of the 11th everchosen (which I didn't know and just learned).

About 30 years off, but game time won't flow linearly. The same designers stated in a previous article that the narrative will not progress sequentially forward in time and that they intend to hop backwards to events that happened earlier in the TOW time period (which is a roughly 100 year span of time) and in between. They refer to the Siege of Praag as TOWs Siege of Terra moment, HH has jumped around the chronology a lot over the past decade +, even briefly covering some events that occurred during or shortly after the Siege of Terra, but not the Siehe of Twrra itself. I would take that as the model that TOW will likely follow. Expect to see Kul become playable, events that happened around the events of Praag to be featured, but they will dance around the actual topic of the Siege itself for a long long time.

 Londinium wrote:
If I was being somewhat cynical, I'd suggest that the de-emphasising of the individual gods was done to reduce the scope of relaunching Chaos Warriors, back when TOW had the previously refrenced smaller scope.

The only aligned units pre-End Times were the Skullcrushers and Hellstriders, both of which are mortals mounted on Daemonic steeds and this period has established that Daemons aren't a thing.
So a total of two whole units not available to the faction doesn't seem particularly damning.

Likewise I really dislike the continued pushing in articles that Archaon was always fated to destroy the Old World.

I'm pretty sure Archaon was always fated to bring about the End Times. Actually, no, I'm sure of it because there's a whole prophecy about him, which he reads and then becomes the Everchosen. So you're annoyed that for once GW is actually being consistent with it's background. The irony of it all.

Oh, how I despise the idea of the Everchosen. So GW's idea to differentiate the Old World hordes of Chaos from the AoS ones is to drain all the Chaotic loveliness of the the Big Four and double down on 'evil vikings'?

That article was very funny to me:

You know Asavar Kul right? Yeah, he's awesome, but you won't be seeing him for some time! (This bit is perfectly understandable)

You know all the cool lords that are Kul's lieutenants and that you've seen or heard of before right? Engra, Valnir, Arbaal, Scyla in his human form.....

...yeah you're not (yet) seeing them (return) either.

Instead we will give you one lacky of a lacky of Asavar Kul.

..and we won't give you a model for her either.

...and the four different Chaos god flavours you like so much? Mostly gone for good measure!

Enjoy!

Way to temper enthusiasm there GW!

Lots of "new shiny things" stuff is bound to be OW 2.0 stuff. Who knows we might see things like unique new chaos demon models and other stuff come out then.

It's very clear that internally Gw management wants AoS and OW to be fully separate product lines (as much as they can) and OW right now is running on old stuff first. In theory the first new things should be Kislev and Cathay, though we've no idea if GW will do them against each other or if they'll spread them out and pitch them against other forces and bits of the narrative

Do we think Asavar Kul will get a model I wonder?

*Edited to remove fake road map I thought was leaked from Nova

 nathan2004 wrote:
Do we think Asavar Kul will get a model I wonder?

Why is anyone still posting this fake trash 'roadmap'? Even if you only saw it posted online and didn't know the source (the fact its not a clear picture from WarCom being the biggest give away) the fact that the order of the releases so far is completely wrong already shows its fake.

My bad thought it was leaked from Nova. Guess we will find out tomorrow.

that thing was a fan made possible roadmap posted a year ago before the first army was released, everyone would have seen that one at least once by now

for Asava Kul, WarCom says there will be no model anytime soon, so why should we think that there will be one

JWh85 wrote:
That article was very funny to me:

You know Asavar Kul right? Yeah, he's awesome, but you won't be seeing him for some time! (This bit is perfectly understandable)

You know all the cool lords that are Kul's lieutenants and that you've seen or heard of before right? Engra, Valnir, Arbaal, Scyla in his human form.....

...yeah you're not (yet) seeing them (return) either.

Instead we will give you one lacky of a lacky of Asavar Kul.

..and we won't give you a model for her either.

...and the four different Chaos god flavours you like so much? Mostly gone for good measure!

Enjoy!

Way to temper enthusiasm there GW!

It makes a lot more sense when you think of it in the context of Horus Heresy. In that situation they had decades of background material to work with and lots of familiar characters + some (relatively) new ones to work with as part of the narrative development of the game and setting. We didn't get Horus right out the gate with that game and a lot of what we did get was slow burn build up to the bigger characters we were all hoping for.

In this case, TOW is a mostly blank slate. It doesn't (yet) have a meandering long term novel series exploring particular events and detailing countless characters personal histories. The studio is making all that up as they go. It makes sense that they are going to be featuring the third rate never before seen characters first, because the characters we have heard of are mostly few and far between and have specific defined roles that need to be played, there's a lot less flexibility there and once you introduce them there's not a lot you can do with them other than have them play their parts, and often moving the spotlight off them at that point to lesser characters is seen as a distraction or filler by most audiences.

Basically it'd a slow burn buildup to the big show.

I'm fine with a slow buildup for now even though I'm still miffed we didn't get a single new anything with this release. But if they don't eventually make a model of Engra Deathsword to match that iconic cover art, they're insane

chaos0xomega wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
That article was very funny to me:

You know Asavar Kul right? Yeah, he's awesome, but you won't be seeing him for some time! (This bit is perfectly understandable)

You know all the cool lords that are Kul's lieutenants and that you've seen or heard of before right? Engra, Valnir, Arbaal, Scyla in his human form.....

...yeah you're not (yet) seeing them (return) either.

Instead we will give you one lacky of a lacky of Asavar Kul.

..and we won't give you a model for her either.

...and the four different Chaos god flavours you like so much? Mostly gone for good measure!

Enjoy!

Way to temper enthusiasm there GW!

It makes a lot more sense when you think of it in the context of Horus Heresy. In that situation they had decades of background material to work with and lots of familiar characters + some (relatively) new ones to work with as part of the narrative development of the game and setting. We didn't get Horus right out the gate with that game and a lot of what we did get was slow burn build up to the bigger characters we were all hoping for.

In this case, TOW is a mostly blank slate. It doesn't (yet) have a meandering long term novel series exploring particular events and detailing countless characters personal histories. The studio is making all that up as they go. It makes sense that they are going to be featuring the third rate never before seen characters first, because the characters we have heard of are mostly few and far between and have specific defined roles that need to be played, there's a lot less flexibility there and once you introduce them there's not a lot you can do with them other than have them play their parts, and often moving the spotlight off them at that point to lesser characters is seen as a distraction or filler by most audiences.

Basically it'd a slow burn buildup to the big show.

Yes and no - there is a huge novel series which does detail many many characters - so no the studio is not making new stuff up for the most part - its adding some bits and pieces but alot is already there as is mentioned in the WC article. There are dozens if not hundreds Elves, Undead, Lizardmen and other who are thousands of years old who can make appearances as cameos - then there are plenty of dwarfs who are hundreds of years old - and have appeared in their Arcane Journal as the TK did in theirs.

Its only really the human nations that lack these for the most part

Is it too late to say I'm dissapointed there was no Egrim von Horstman?

My personal frustration with Chaos in The Old World is that it's all one big Undivided family, yet you can still apply Marks to your characters and units. And the characters and units care enough about their Marks that they won't intermingle with other Marks. And while daemons aren't a thing, your characters can ride daemonic mounts, but not any of the God-specific mounts because... reasons?

I just want my Discs back, Change damn it!