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JWh85 wrote:
I think I'm in the minority here, but i really dislike all the new chaos warrior and knight models. They are so busy. I like some details, but not that much. It all becomes one jumbled mess to me. It would probably help if they were painted black, as the metalics aren't doing the sculpts much favour. The lord on horse is espcially bad with this. It has 's total lack of a focus point to me. I think the old lord on demonic mount (the one with the squid arm) is still leaps better.

You may be the minority, but you're not alone.

It's like wartime dazzle paint, you can't tell where one part ends and another begins. Almost every modern GW mini looks like it was designed to be a standalone character. That's fine if it IS a standalone character, but you don't need so much detail on ranked units.

Digital "sculpting" has made it far too easy for them to add unnecessary bling to everything just because they can.

Has anybody run the numbers on the new Starter set and Battle March boxes to come up with the points cost?

I'm sure they said thoses BM Boxes are 700 Points for each side.

Battlemarch is for 400 to 700 Points Games.

JWh85 wrote:
It also feels bad that gw does people who just bought a whole warrior army 1.5, 2 years ago somewhat dirty.with this complete range reboot.

Meh. I'm not going to replace my entire army with new bods, but I'll buy a box and mix new spikeys in with old. More variety is always good in the pursuit of Chaos.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hard disagree there.

Not on the it not being practical armour. But it’s nothing to do with MMO Stylings.

The AoS Models are modern Realm of Chaos style designs. Leaning into the fantastical more than the historical to visually describe warriors at various degrees round the bend of worshipping insane gods.

I'm sorry man, but I don't care what rationale is used, the AoS chosen look like they could literally have stepped off the cover art for a Korean-styled Warhammer MMO. You can like that look, but that's the look it has. Also it's odd to me to try and link that back to RoC, given how many of the RoC chaos minis - even the ones with whackadoo mutations - have recognisable(if heightened and stylised) suits of proper armour. You're far more likely to find full plate or plate & maille on a RoC model than you are a Tactical Midriff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
I think I'm in the minority here, but i really dislike all the new chaos warrior and knight models. They are so busy. I like some details, but not that much. It all becomes one jumbled mess to me. It would probably help if they were painted black, as the metalics aren't doing the sculpts much favour. The lord on horse is espcially bad with this. It has 's total lack of a focus point to me. I think the old lord on demonic mount (the one with the squid arm) is still leaps better.

You may be the minority, but you're not alone.

It's like wartime dazzle paint, you can't tell where one part ends and another begins. Almost every modern GW mini looks like it was designed to be a standalone character. That's fine if it IS a standalone character, but you don't need so much detail on ranked units.

Digital "sculpting" has made it far too easy for them to add unnecessary bling to everything just because they can.

I really encourage people to look up colour-swapped images. I understand that GW painted them with the metallic style they did as a tribute to a particular piece of art, but it's absolutely murdered the silhouette of the miniatures and was an awful choice for promo images IMO.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
It also feels bad that gw does people who just bought a whole warrior army 1.5, 2 years ago somewhat dirty.with this complete range reboot.

Meh. I'm not going to replace my entire army with new bods, but I'll buy a box and mix new spikeys in with old. More variety is always good in the pursuit of Chaos.

These will probably work great as Chosen next to the old Warriors.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:
I'm sorry man, but I don't care what rationale is used, the AoS chosen look like they could literally have stepped off the cover art for a Korean-styled Warhammer MMO.

The musician's abdomen is covered in... cloth. That kinda says it all.

The new WoC, even with a suboptimal paint scheme of warm grey on warm grey, look orders of magnitude better.

My only complaint is that the horses have too much armour on them.

The new WoC.. split on them.

They are great until you look at the oversized shoulderpads.

I rekon if you'd cut them out ( make them smaller) etc. they'd look amazing.

Siloed on their own, I don't think any of the models or new ranges are inherently bad or stand out. They always look better once in the hands of hobbyists anyway. But as a new box set with two armies facing off against each other? It just doesn't look like Warhammer fantasy to me. Which I guess would be GWs point that this isn't WFB, but this is 'The Old World' now. But this new set could quite easily be the newest AoS release outside of being the wrong size bases. In which case, it baffles me why GW have had such a distaste of 'Don't share product lines' and want to keep skaven/undead/lizards etc out of the old world and remove anything from AoS that have been brought back.

I don't dislike AoS and I've been happy to share models long before old world was even a thing and I was still collecting for WFB, but this feels like the old world will loose its tabletop identity fast. That, or we'll have a really mismatching aesthetic going forward. 20-30 year old looking wood elfs with the new 'AoS' style digitally sculpted chaos warriors. WFB was always (in reality) very mismatching, but at least the old world up to now had that 'nostalgic vibe' and AoS was that 'new and digital age sculpts' vibe. Both games seem to once offer different things to those that wanted them. I think the old world is going to morph (visually) in to rank and file AoS and 40k and I wonder if to an outsider/new player if they could even tell the games apart. I know Cathay was an all new army, so had that 'digital' look, but the other armies were able to keep the flavour of classic warhammer by only having a handful of new sculpts.

I do like they are not going for edition spam like every other game, and the rules are being kept, but its GW. I still have doubts and fully expect this core set to come out, be gone in 6 months and them to announce this edition to be replaced this time next year with another new hardback. Then find out this was meant to have come out a year ago or something!

I like battle march rules are being expanded. I love big games (I'm painting HUGE armies for war of the ring) but the fact is loving them is one thing, but actually getting 20k points of goblins and dwarves painted and on to the table is a lot harder to do, but being able to thrown some 400pt forces together to play at home when I work from home, that is more than manageable. Especially when I'm so consumed by my massive LotR and Judge Dredd projects most of the time.

Not a bad reveal but I found the MTO over shadowed the details of this one tbh.

I just find that opinion completely bizarre considering the Warhammer Fantasy chaos warriors have ALWAYS been covered in hyper detailed plate armour.








I could pull every single piece of artwork ever created for the Fantasy Chaos as a faction and the entire theme is insanely detailed, busy and most importantly baroque armour.

To then complain that the models are too busy?? What?

They feel like a nice midpoint between Adrian Smiths art and the old Warhammer art to me.

The chunkier horns are the newest thing. Some seem to have more slender options. I guess swapping with some AOS slaves to darkness heads (the ones that are more like the original plastics) could work.

Just want to get these kits in my grubby little hands.

I'm wondering if they'll get the CSM treatment with new helmets and shoulder pads for god specific warriors via an upgrade kit. I guess it depends on how the models come together but if the shoulder are separate pieces then maybe?

But this new set could quite easily be the newest AoS release outside of being the wrong size bases.

I'd like to hear why you think this is the case.

 Olthannon wrote:



I just find that opinion completely bizarre considering the Warhammer Fantasy chaos warriors have ALWAYS been covered in hyper detailed plate armour.








I could pull every single piece of artwork ever created for the Fantasy Chaos as a faction and the entire theme is insanely detailed, busy and most importantly baroque armour.

To then complain that the models are too busy?? What?

True, but what most of these artworks have in common is that they focus on a single warrior. Having a regiment made entirely out of insanely detailed models means that some coherency and focus is lost. It's not un-warhammer, but not to my taste at least for units of ranked models

These are far more restrained than what just got revealed. The more i look at the new ones, the more they just come across as pure visual noise.

What does restrained even mean in this case? Just spouting nonsense. First it was the colour scheme hiding detail and now they are too detailed? Get your story straight.

JWh85 wrote:


True, but what most of these artworks have in common is thst theu focus on a single warrior. Having a regiment made entirely out of insanely details models means that some coherency and focus is lost. It's not un-warhammer, but not to my taste at least for units of ranked models

Again, the entire design theme for Chaos Warriors has always been insanely detailed. Each one has gone through trials and bloodshed to get the armour they wear, each is a work of art in itself. Each warrior is a champion. They are visual noise, it's the entire point of the faction.

I get if they are not for you, but others in this thread saying they're too busy and digital sculpting is at fault is absurd.

It's an interesting point, I think these ARE a lot closer to the art. They're like an updated version of the 5e hunchbacks with proper proportions.

But I never *loved* that art, good though a lot of it clearly is. I always preferred the late 6e kit's aesthetics. I think the models were better than the art, and I loved the mood they evoked.

That's why I bought a last box of the old ones and am happy about that. I think the new ones are good, and close to the art. I expect some other paintjobs will really make them look even better. But they're not for me, or at least if I get some, they'll only be used as Chosen I think.

So if you look at it that way, people are comparing them mentally to the late 6e kit and are disappointed that they are not a "modern update" of that, but rather a modern execution of a different look. They preferred the middlehammer sculpts. But if you want a modern update of the 6e kit, the AoS warriors are that, so really we've got the best of all worlds. Any of us grognards who wanted the 6e kits surely could have gotten some at this stage if we REALLY wanted them.

 Olthannon wrote:

Spoiler:

I just find that opinion completely bizarre considering the Warhammer Fantasy chaos warriors have ALWAYS been covered in hyper detailed plate armour.








I could pull every single piece of artwork ever created for the Fantasy Chaos as a faction and the entire theme is insanely detailed, busy and most importantly baroque armour.

To then complain that the models are too busy?? What?

(Just to preface- I'm not totally against the new models. I buy plenty from GW on a regular basis)

Its one thing to draw/admire a drawing of single chaos warrior. Its entirely different to want to sit there and have to paint all those details on 99 of them.

I've been painting up a bunch of models from around 2012 from another company and I'm a slow painter and I've been knocking them out at a single model per night and I was shocked at just how quickly I could get them done. (Skirmish game, so not batch painting). Tried to get a handful of Old world models models done and I wanted to pull my teeth out. Digital sculpting should have made the models easy to paint- easy to splat some speed paint style paints on to them, deep recesses for easy washes, clear definitions for easy edge highlights etc. But GW like to jam as much as they can on there and then bombard you with their paintjobs that kind of blast you with intense silver highlights that wash all those UberDetails together.

I want to knock 20-50 models out in a week, not 3 months. When ever I paint a 'modern' GW kit, I have to completely clear my schedule as I know its going to take longer than anything else out there.

GW won't stop at the chaos warriors either. I'm sure we'll see new Empire soon, and they will be packed to the brim with gubbinz and bitz.

New Chaos looks fine, but it's nothing spectacular. In fact, I rate the ogre refresh much higher, same as Vampire counts, both of which were released under AoS branding, ironically. My position towards AoS had already shifted somewhat after the latter, but these new ogres have sealed the deal. I appreciate AoS for carrying some of those old designs into a clean, new product line. Old World hasn't delivered on that note, rather introduced strange new factions and units that in many ways clash with my perception of the setting.

They seem perfectly fine to me when you don't wash out everything with highlights and light tent glare.

I think old world did deliver: i think the new bretonnia plastic models and the plastic marauders were fantastic and a great evolution of their warhammer armies' feel. These warriors seem like a continuation of their 5th/6th edition multipart plastics more than their later counterparts and I never liked those designs. They are great sculpts, but not to my taste.

I find the ogres ok...i miss the more Mongolia horde theme for some of the models. What ruins most of the AOS models is their 'high fantasy turned to 11' feel. With the new ogres, it's those helmet/shoulderpad things they're wearing.

AOS had it's hits for me though; l
Flesh eater courts are fantastic.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
So if you look at it that way, people are comparing them mentally to the late 6e kit and are disappointed that they are not a "modern update" of that, but rather a modern execution of a different look.

The AoS Warriors are an update of the 6th kits already.

Which I say two sentences further on in my post.

Ah well, so you do.

 BertBert wrote:
New Chaos looks fine, but it's nothing spectacular. In fact, I rate the ogre refresh much higher, same as Vampire counts, both of which were released under AoS branding, ironically. My position towards AoS had already shifted somewhat after the latter, but these new ogres have sealed the deal. I appreciate AoS for carrying some of those old designs into a clean, new product line. Old World hasn't delivered on that note, rather introduced strange new factions and units that in many ways clash with my perception of the setting.

I like AoS but I found the Ogre refresh to feel forced, more like 'how can we stop people using these in old world' rather than 'what can we do to make these cool'. They even alluded to it in the stream by saying they didn't need them to rank up and the sculpts could be more spaced out. There were one or two exceptions that I thought were nice kits, but the others just felt/looked liked the old kit just no longer 'rank-able'. Just enough design changes to warrant being labelled 'new'. The replacement for the mournfang calvary were almost identical, except they have been shaved (I say replacements, I'm not sure if they are replaced or if the new ones will be sold alongside).

Strangely, they seem less detailed than the new chaos warriors and would fit in with the older ogres quite happily if you could squeeze them in to the units with some shuffling. Or in the case of the new cauldron centrepiece, chopping down the additional models.

The Ogres aren't for me. I'm not a fan of the fatso Ogre look, and making them not mongols any more is only a small improvement. I much prefer the older Ogre designs or even the Mantic Ogres to that look.

A bit sad about the Gnoblars going away, I might see about getting a few before they're gone. I liked how they represented the variety that Goblins are supposed to have in the Old World.

Looking at the Cathayan artillery Ogres and the blood bowl Ogres it seems quite possible Ogres maybe get an Old World refresh that is distinct from AOS.

The word I use for modern GW minis is 'overwrought'. Every model, including basic troopers, are loaded with small details that look great in a render or close in 'Eavy Metal shot. But assembled in a unit on your side of the table, the de-resolve into visual static...never mind across the table!

There's also a huge difference in putting this level of detail into a single painting or drawing for the book to give the reader's imagination something to go off of...and painting an army of 28-32mm miniatures that will be gathered together on the tabletop. Chaos Warriors have always had higher amounts of detail in the armor plate trim and chaos arrows, yes, but they didn't always have multiple layers of cloth, chain, and fur piled up on top of that. Modern GW miniatures receive more detail per basic trooper than old- or middleHammer characters. There's little canvas for your paints between all the raised crap all over them. Raised crap that just turns into squiggles on the tabletop.

I want to like the new Chaos Warriors. I actually liked the design of the 5e hunchbacks, just not the pose and the huge hands and weapons forced by the limitations of the plastics tech at the time. But well...they're overwrought. There's too much there for a miniature in a mass battle wargame, where you don't need - or likely even want - every trooper to be an individual work of art rather than a game piece.

Well you can’t please everybody. There’s the crowd of “we don’t want to play this game because the models are so dated despite the ruleset being solid” alongside “we love the old models but hate the redesigns”.

I’m just hoping base sizes didn’t change like with the new marauders.

People wouldn't have minded sticking with the old WoC plastics if the price reflected their age.

When TOW launched it was very much "money for old rope." It's nice to get some redesigns because we know prices aren't coming down.

 Psychopomp wrote:
The word I use for modern GW minis is 'overwrought'.

In principle, I don't disagree with your assessment - I've criticised the Cathay infantry releases for this very reason. But this is Warriors of Chaos we're talking about. They're mean to be, each and every one of them, a unique champion of Chaos. The lore demands they be overwrought. If anything, the 6th kit was decisively too plain and uniform for what it was supposed to represent.

On another matter separate from Chaos Warrior aesthetics, I do find it funny that we're now on the precipice of the release of a starter box for TOW that is thematically focused on clashes around the Great Bastion. when the original pitch for the game was focusing on 'the Old World' and an Empire civil war with a deliberately narrow scope. Some posters on this site and others were adamant that this meant the scope would never increase and we'd be lucky if we saw much more than Empires, Orcs, Dwarfs and Chaos.

Somewhere along the line there was a major readjustment of what GW wanted to do with this game. Yet some people are still adamant that we will never see some of the legacy factions return. I'd love to know the background story behind the development of this game...also where Kislev disappeared off to.