Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know, I know. France has the strongest animation and comic book scene of all of europe.


Personally, I have always loved Wakfu , Kirikou and the Sorceress and Gandahar.

FYI Arcane is CGI. Enhanced with 2D animation for effects and textures, but the models and movement are CGI.

So funny if they did a Groot and had Cavill play Ravenor

Why yes, he is a hover box. With point defence cannon. <insert Witcheresque grunt>

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think he would do a great Votann series... We really need more lore XD

This! Very much this!

I think they will start with a smaller, tightly set story with the background suggested around it for an initial series and then expand into the larger themes/battles later. An inquisitor would be useful- can bump into pretty much anything so individual xenos/hereticsand imperial factions could pop up as it goes.

But there is one thing missing from this deal...that really seals the deal...

Bardicbroadcasts! Seriously, he should be a ministorum priest, or something.

There are two important points.

It mentions both series and movies.

It also talks about Amazon getting merchandise rights for whatever they produce.

That means current known characters are extremely unlikely, it will be a new inquisitor or such.

Looking forward to it.

 Tyran wrote:
FYI Arcane is CGI. Enhanced with 2D animation for effects and textures, but the models and movement are CGI.

It's complicated, as it's kinda both, that's why they had both a 3d team and a 2d team working in tandem for it.

It's kind of the reason why it looks so damn good, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
I know, I know. France has the strongest animation and comic book scene of all of europe.

Personally, I have always loved Wakfu , Kirikou and the Sorceress and Gandahar.

Yeah, me too. And Fortiche did also the biggest smash hit video clips from Riot (hell, Pop/Stars only happened because there was a stop in the production of Arcane). So much so that whenever I think of Riot I think about them as a music studio.

GW has been trying to make Eisenhorn for 5+ years, even mentioning it again this year. I highly doubt they're just going to abandon that.

 Platuan4th wrote:
GW has been trying to make Eisenhorn for 5+ years, even mentioning it again this year. I highly doubt they're just going to abandon that.

Not sure I agree.

Developing TV and Movies is seemingly neither easy, nor cheap. This deal? It’s not GW fronting the cash from what we’ve heard, but a long established and successful production company, a Hollywood A-Lister and Amazon. And it’s those same parties taking on the process of going from signed contract to screen.

In a standard crap analogy, it’s like saying you want to landscape your garden, and staring the planning. And along the planning route, a Gardening Company offer not only to do the landscaping, but give you scads of cash for doing so.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
GW has been trying to make Eisenhorn for 5+ years, even mentioning it again this year. I highly doubt they're just going to abandon that.

Not sure I agree.

Developing TV and Movies is seemingly neither easy, nor cheap. This deal? It’s not GW fronting the cash from what we’ve heard, but a long established and successful production company, a Hollywood A-Lister and Amazon. And it’s those same parties taking on the process of going from signed contract to screen.

In a standard crap analogy, it’s like saying you want to landscape your garden, and staring the planning. And along the planning route, a Gardening Company offer not only to do the landscaping, but give you scads of cash for doing so.

The last mention GW made of Eisenhorn was specifically about having found an LA based agency(Vertigo is based in LA) and that "Eisenhorn is in development and the subject of discussions with potential distribution partners. "

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/warhammer-creator-games-workshop-issues-6471855

Amazon commissions shows, yes, but more importantly, they are a distribution partner.

It'd be aces if Cavill was Ollanius Pius, the Eternal Hero of Mankind...which is a kind of interesting way IMO to introduce the 40kverse to mainstream audiences.

From the POV of a Perpetual.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
GW has been trying to make Eisenhorn for 5+ years, even mentioning it again this year. I highly doubt they're just going to abandon that.

Not sure I agree.

Developing TV and Movies is seemingly neither easy, nor cheap. This deal? It’s not GW fronting the cash from what we’ve heard, but a long established and successful production company, a Hollywood A-Lister and Amazon. And it’s those same parties taking on the process of going from signed contract to screen.

In a standard crap analogy, it’s like saying you want to landscape your garden, and staring the planning. And along the planning route, a Gardening Company offer not only to do the landscaping, but give you scads of cash for doing so.

The last mention GW made of Eisenhorn was specifically about having found an LA based agency(Vertigo is based in LA) and that "Eisenhorn is in development and the subject of discussions with potential distribution partners. "

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/warhammer-creator-games-workshop-issues-6471855

Amazon commissions shows, yes, but more importantly, they are a distribution partner.

It'd definitely make sense for this to be an Eisenhorn show to start with then, as Cavill specifically thanked Vertigo in his statement on the subject.

I don't think Cavill wants to play a normal human.

 xttz wrote:
I see you too are familiar with dakka dakka dot com

Why do you post here if this is your attitude towards this place?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't think Cavill wants to play a normal human.

 xttz wrote:
I see you too are familiar with dakka dakka dot com

Why do you post here if this is your attitude towards this place?

Why do you give GW 20K a year when you hate them so much? People are complicated.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


How is anything 40k “good feels and relatable“?

Triumph of the human spirit.

Triumph of the Will, more like

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


How is anything 40k “good feels and relatable“?

Triumph of the human spirit.

Triumph of the Will, more like

Yeah… I have to be honest, 40K does not inspire me to admire human spirit. This is an example of that mixed messaging from GW that I was talking about.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


How is anything 40k “good feels and relatable“?

Triumph of the human spirit.

Triumph of the Will, more like

I do not think that Amazon is in any danger to do literal Nazi propaganda by accident - you can have a lot of criticism for much of their fiction, but being uncritical of fascist is not exactly among them.

That being said, adapting any of the 'serious' 40k stories is a recipe for disaster, for a TV show or a movie you need to adopt one of the more light-hearted/satiric/comedic stories, or else the average viewer might miss the part about there being no good guys in the universe, and especially not in the Imperium. The last thing the hobby needs is an influx of kinda-non-ironic-in-an-ironic-way ''I'm not a nazi but you have to hand it to them...'' edgy guys that missed the point of the joke.

I don't think that'll be a problem.

And you can make 40k serious without driving people away.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't think Cavill wants to play a normal human.

 xttz wrote:
I see you too are familiar with dakka dakka dot com

Why do you post here if this is your attitude towards this place?

Cavill should play Cain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't think that'll be a problem.

And you can make 40k serious without driving people away.

You can set serious stories in the 40k universe, but you can't make 40k serious in my opinion.

I can't help but feel the single line of "there's no good guys" gets so grossly overblown in online discussions. Because if you crack open any of the BL books there are good, bad, grey, crazy characters all over the place.

There are characters who do the good thing every day; there are characters who do the good thing and get twisted by chaos to do bad things in the name of good; there are Saturday morning cartoon evils who likely have moustaches to twizzle; there's subtle evil in that your good character is doing good things but that

a) Ultimately its a drop of good against the ocean of bad

b) They did the whole thing using servitor sand cogitators which are the bodies and minds of slaved people/cloned people. etc...

If I were them I'd use The Walking Dead as a baseplate in terms of seriousness in a "comic book" setting. A good way to make it suitably dramatic, dark and repeatedly brutal.

Again I think a detective style show would be the best thing to do. That's a good way to draw the audience regardless of the source material.

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel the single line of "there's no good guys" gets so grossly overblown in online discussions.

Y'think?

It's honestly suffocating. Endlessly trotted out by those who lack nuance or a shred of reading comprehension skills for the 40k material that already exists showing clear examples of heroes and people doing good.

"Nu-uh! GW said there are no good guys, so that means everyone is a super-duper-evil person."

It's such nonsense.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel the single line of "there's no good guys" gets so grossly overblown in online discussions.

Y'think?

It's honestly suffocating.

I think it just shows how many people read just the rulebook and codex for armies they collect and remember a few choice lines and impressions and then never actually dive into BL books and such. Whcih is totally fair I didn't read any either for a very very long time. It's why I always say that the codex format is amazing because when lore is optional and when lore costs money to buy into; gamers/hobbyists/modellers/etc... will often prioritize a model over a book. Which is totally fair because that's what got them into the hobby; which is why the codex needs lore as well to at least tickle the interest in the lore side.


But yeah its like the whole "Page 5" thing with Warmachine. Simple, clear statements that people repeat and blow into insane proportions very quickly.








I actually also wonder if the whole "there are no good people" is a carry over from those with a DnD background where morality is a defined trait and a fixed value. So "good" characters are pure good with not a shred of bad in them. So GW having "no good characters" is like its "missing" a whole alignment trait. When in reality its more that Warhammer just doesn't use a morality chart for characters and thus most are "realistic" in that they are shades of grey from almost pure good to pure evil.

 Overread wrote:



I actually also wonder if the whole "there are no good people" is a carry over from those with a DnD background where morality is a defined trait and a fixed value. So "good" characters are pure good with not a shred of bad in them. So GW having "no good characters" is like its "missing" a whole alignment trait. When in reality its more that Warhammer just doesn't use a morality chart for characters and thus most are "realistic" in that they are shades of grey from almost pure good to pure evil.

In my understanding ''no good guys'' is supposed to mean that even the characters that act well-intentioned, in an altruistic way and so on still live and die under the central premises of the universe and thus have to, sooner or later, commit acts that we'd deem evil - from our vantage point, of course - out of sheer necessity. In warhammer, contrary to the real world, there are actual witches, actual demons and so on, and sometimes you actually, really have to burn a witch, or execute genestealer-infected children or commit any other number of horrendous acts because the alternative would ultimately be even worse. The Imperium as a whole, and especially the more warlike sub-organisations, have taken ''Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed'' as their guiding motive, and in some cases quite literally: by our standards, a Marine is a surgically neutered, literally brainwashed child soldier pumped up on growth hormones, combat drugs and religious fanaticism. That may all be necessary to have a chance against the slavering hordes of aliens and monsters that want to do unspeakable things to humanity, but it's a horrible fate in itself. Sweeping all that totally under the rug and just have 'awesome' and 'epic' action marines is what removes nuance from the setting: not every story needs to be introspective angsting about the human condition in an inhuman world, but the setting contains more than bolter-porn.

There are characters who do the good thing every day; there are characters who do the good thing and get twisted by chaos to do bad things in the name of good; there are Saturday morning cartoon evils who likely have moustaches to twizzle; there's subtle evil in that your good character is doing good things but that

a) Ultimately its a drop of good against the ocean of bad

b) They did the whole thing using servitor sand cogitators which are the bodies and minds of slaved people/cloned people. etc...

Exactly - it's very much anchored in an 80s mindset of living 'under the bomb': No future, in the end we could all be blown away in an instant, your heroics and hope are meaningless, laughter of dark gods among the cold uncaring stars yadda yadda... if it's done well its very good, but it's also something that is not easy to convey in movies. Do it too openly and it becomes campy, do it too subtle and a lot of people will outright miss it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel the single line of "there's no good guys" gets so grossly overblown in online discussions.

Y'think?

It's honestly suffocating. Endlessly trotted out by those who lack nuance or a shred of reading comprehension skills for the 40k material that already exists showing clear examples of heroes and people doing good.

"Nu-uh! GW said there are no good guys, so that means everyone is a super-duper-evil person."

It's such nonsense.

I think that is quite an ironic thing to say, pots and kettles comes to mind. Your broad sweeping statement about people quoting GW lacks nuance.

You are accusing me of having a lack of understanding nuance without knowing me and the nuances I consider when reading/watching 40k material.

A few moral characters in an oppressively unjust setting is the satirical aspect. Like MASH. I remember being a teen looking forward to joining the military and thinking MASH was alright but it needed more combat in it. Then eventually becoming a soldier and better satirical elements of the show making light of the stupidity in military life. Now as a much older former soldier I see the true anti-war narrative that I previously missed.

I loathe how some folks seem to see some sort of aspirational aspects to the Imperium. All I see is a setting that is even worse than the ridiculously misunderstood propaganda that got me into uniform and carrying a rifle.

It is very clear in my mind how even as a young soldier I misunderstood the intent of GW in its creation of 40k as I painted my Crimson Fist Space Marines, admiring the courage, strength and ferocity of them. Wanting to emulate their loyalty, dedication and resolve… completely ignorant of the bigger picture of both the 40k setting and in fact my own service. And when I saw something I did not like, such as the Emperor consuming Psykers to survive I just ignored it… completely missing the intended point of 40k from what folks like Rick Priestly have said.

Quoting that there are some decent, empathetic, moral characters in the Imperium does not change the face that the Imperium embraces horror politically as an ends justifies the means for humanity’s survival. A message I strongly disagree with, especially on impressionable youth… like I once was.

Maybe the Cavill will prove me wrong and create a brilliantly subtle anti-war story telling device but then the question remains, how much of the audience will get that and how many will think, sometimes you just need an Exterminatus.

I would love a nuanced, thought provoking slow burn show like Andor exploring a cautionary tale warning Humanity not to take this path… but honestly I think we will get either a forgettable film like Mutant Chronicles, Game of Thrones misery porn or another vehicle to have kids getting Space Marine Christmas decorations, toothbrushes and lunch boxes.


Edit: Let me be clear, while I enjoy the gamey aspects of D&D alignments I generally do not apply them outside the context of D&D. And as a soldier who served on the Berlin Wall before and during its fall, I was quite aware of the threat of a global holocaust but was able to temper my fear and hatred when dealing with Soviet and East German soldiers.

Brave, heroic acts in support of an evil system are still evil. An SS death squad trooper pushing his comrade out of the way of a partisan with a machine gun is a heroic act, but we wouldn't say that the SS trooper is good because of that.

A Space Marine or guardsman sacrificing their life to quell a rebellion on an Imperial World that sought to free themselves from the tyranny of the Imperium is heroic, yes, but also evil. Their actions serve to perpetuate the oppression of millions of people.

That is what people mean when they say there are "no good guys in 40k".

If I were to make a "serious" show in the 40k universe, I'd do Band of Brothers and follow a company of Guard fighting to defend a world from Chaos. We don't depict any of the outside politics, we just follow this company of the Guard for a full season and see the bonds they have with each other, the sacrifices they make for each other, the bravery. We see them mourn loss, be demoralised in defeat and then finally joyous in victory. It then ends with them being murdered by the very government they fought to protect, due to a paranoid fear of "corruption" despite there being no evidence of such. That is how you portray the 40k universe, it's a universe in which no amount of heroism can save you and that the biggest threat to you is not any outside force but the very institution that you are fighting to preserve.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Brave, heroic acts in support of an evil system are still evil. An SS death squad trooper pushing his comrade out of the way of a partisan with a machine gun is a heroic act, but we wouldn't say that the SS trooper is good because of that.

A Space Marine or guardsman sacrificing their life to quell a rebellion on an Imperial World that sought to free themselves from the tyranny of the Imperium is heroic, yes, but also evil. Their actions serve to perpetuate the oppression of millions of people.

That is what people mean when they say there are "no good guys in 40k".

If I were to make a "serious" show in the 40k universe, I'd do Band of Brothers and follow a company of Guard fighting to defend a world from Chaos. We don't depict any of the outside politics, we just follow this company of the Guard for a full season and see the bonds they have with each other, the sacrifices they make for each other, the bravery. We see them mourn loss, be demoralised in defeat and then finally joyous in victory. It then ends with them being murdered by the very government they fought to protect, due to a paranoid fear of "corruption" despite there being no evidence of such. That is how you portray the 40k universe, it's a universe in which no amount of heroism can save you and that the biggest threat to you is not any outside force but the very institution that you are fighting to preserve.

That sounds like an interesting pitch meeting. It would take quite some courage to make a big financial decision on that pitch mind you. Maybe Cavill will surprise me but I remain skeptical.

I am not opposed to a 40k show per se, I have had a long term love/hate relationship with 40k for over 35 years… I just do not want to see some superficial action adventure show glamorizing the horrors of the Imperium which feeds into an unpleasant real world political movement.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

If I were to make a "serious" show in the 40k universe, I'd do Band of Brothers and follow a company of Guard fighting to defend a world from Chaos. We don't depict any of the outside politics, we just follow this company of the Guard for a full season and see the bonds they have with each other, the sacrifices they make for each other, the bravery. We see them mourn loss, be demoralised in defeat and then finally joyous in victory. It then ends with them being murdered by the very government they fought to protect, due to a paranoid fear of "corruption" despite there being no evidence of such. That is how you portray the 40k universe, it's a universe in which no amount of heroism can save you and that the biggest threat to you is not any outside force but the very institution that you are fighting to preserve.

Isn't Gaunt's Ghosts pretty much exactly that, or at least for the first ~ 5 books?

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


That sounds like an interesting pitch meeting. It would take quite some courage to make a big financial decision on that pitch mind you. Maybe Cavill will surprise me but I remain skeptical.

I think such a pitch would work if its part of a series of shows. The reason a producer wouldn't want something like that is that if the series proves really popular and then you kill everyone off at the end you have to start all over again building up popularity. However if its something close to Hammer and Bolter where whilst it might be more than one episode, its part of a planned series of shows. Then you might well have more room to kill off whole chunks of the cast because your product isn't a single show but multiple ones.

It is indeed an ideal way to show how there's no winner, how the small stories of victory, hardship and heroic acts can be defeated by the cruel hand of madness and fate.