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 Shakalooloo wrote:
Could the knight not just be Azrael?

This is my gut instinct, too.
I play dark Angels and I would love to get the Lion, but I'm not too confident

Tsagualsa wrote:
Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.

Not the first perhaps, but the idea that Abaddon would oppose the end of all reality isn't particularly revolutionary. He was always self centred, driven by his own ambitions and desires, not those of Chaos gods. If he wants the Imperium toppled, it is only ever to build his own on the ruins.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.

Not the first perhaps, but the idea that Abaddon would oppose the end of all reality isn't particularly revolutionary. He was always self centred, driven by his own ambitions and desires, not those of Chaos gods. If he wants the Imperium toppled, it is only ever to build his own on the ruins.

It's even what's hinted at in the prophecy of the Key, assuming that is from Abaddons perspective.

In my dreams the sky is burning. The stars blaze bright enough to drown out the darkness around. My heart leaps to see their lights, and I weep to feel such hope.

.....

Yet in that moment I am seized by sudden knowledge. Revelation. I can stop this! I tear my gaze from the dying heavens and I dig, terrified that I am already too late. Something lies under the ashes. Something has been hidden deep, something with the power to stop the stars from burning out.

The key is supposedly something meant to "stop the stars from burning out"

I don't think that's Abaddon.

While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Well, in Saturnine he does note how beautiful of a day it is outside and lament on Perturabo's behalf that Perturabo is cooped up in his computer room doing computer stuff (commanding the entire Siege of Terra himself). Seems like a big softy to me.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't think that's Abaddon.

While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.

I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories - even though GW has some 'deep' concepts hidden in its lore somewhere, the actual lore is mostly comic book level writing, which is itself a huge range from the literary noticeable to pure junk. And the corporate marketing based on this lore is still some rungs lower on the ladder.

The prophecy can be made to fit a lot of different thing, as is the nature of prophecies, and with enough convoluted and motivated reasoning you can make the cards fit a lot of people and things, from the Lion to Valdor, to Russ, to Abaddon or to a released unbroken C'tan or even a completely new faction, the Star Child or whatever.

In the end it's gonna be the Big Hunk'o'Marine™ you can sell a flashy model worth 100$ for.

Just a random thought. If it is not Lion El'Jonson, it possibly could be Kaldor Draigo finally free of the warp.

Tygre wrote:
Just a random thought. If it is not Lion El'Jonson, it possibly could be Kaldor Draigo finally free of the warp.

The Key is actually the key to the locker they kept all of Matt Ward's unfinished Codex manuscripts in

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't think that's Abaddon.

While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.

The dream is from the perspective of the person who's finding "The Key" and using it to open a lock made of the light of the last dying stars, though - at which point they doubt what they're doing and think they're actually being used. It doesn't seem like something that really fits many characters other than Abaddon.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't think that's Abaddon.

While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.

I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories

The Lion isn't the one obtaining and using the Key to unlock something though.

The knight's backpack has the same Iron Halo star as the HH Lion model FWIW.

 The Phazer wrote:
The knight's backpack has the same Iron Halo star as the HH Lion model FWIW.

It doesn't though.

The Lion's Iron Halo is quite elaborate and has decorative elements inside it.

 Rihgu wrote:
Well, in Saturnine he does note how beautiful of a day it is outside and lament on Perturabo's behalf that Perturabo is cooped up in his computer room doing computer stuff (commanding the entire Siege of Terra himself). Seems like a big softy to me.

Eww.

In all seriousness, I don't mind him expressing thoughts and emotions that go beyond pure hatred for the Imperium, but he is a brutal, revenge driven man who's only second to Horus in terms of damage caused to the galaxy as a whole in pursuit of revenge and personal gain. You have to account for that when writing him.

Watch the reveal for the final book end up being:

Arks of Omen: Guilliman

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
The knight's backpack has the same Iron Halo star as the HH Lion model FWIW.

It doesn't though.

The Lion's Iron Halo is quite elaborate and has decorative elements inside it.

They illustrated Farsight as an anime boy and his crisis suit as a horse.

Tsagualsa wrote:
Newest AoO Tarot Card:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/arks-of-omen/

The Knight - Palador - He stands defiant, his blade reflecting the Light of a poisoned sky.

I'd better be getting my Emperor's Tarot deck at the end of all this!

GWswerve job incoming. It’s Ferrus Manus...

Too tired for a rational answer, but could it be Luther? Fatherless Son- being sent home from the Great Crusade with his Green armor because he and the greenies(Caliban Dark Angels) turned to Chaos. He can find the key to undo it all, restoring the fallen and releasing the Lion. Seeing the sky after being locked away in the Rock. Having made bad friend choices, joining chaos. Then we still will get Lion’el back, just later as this story line gets resolved. The ravenwing can start hunting the new Imperium enemies instead of waging their own war. Terrible idea all together...but GW.

 Theophony wrote:
GWswerve job incoming. It’s Ferrus Manus...

Too tired for a rational answer, but could it be Luther? Fatherless Son- being sent home from the Great Crusade with his Green armor because he and the greenies(Caliban Dark Angels) turned to Chaos. He can find the key to undo it all, restoring the fallen and releasing the Lion. Seeing the sky after being locked away in the Rock. Having made bad friend choices, joining chaos. Then we still will get Lion’el back, just later as this story line gets resolved. The ravenwing can start hunting the new Imperium enemies instead of waging their own war. Terrible idea all together...but GW.

Can't-believe-it's-not-Luther, same bland taste but with 50% less Chaos

It could be a lot of things, but from a marketing point of view bringing back a Primarch ought to be much more profitable and 'awesome' than doing a side character that less people know about. Everybody knows the Primarchs, while Luther is more like an insider thing for the people that read novels and are involved in the background. He certainly lacks the inherent 'Wow'-factor that the Primarchs have. That being said, the book may still focus on him for story reasons, but it will probably be about the return of the Lion, if that makes any sense.

Luther already got freed by the previous invasion in the Rock.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't think that's Abaddon.

While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.

Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.

I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories - even though GW has some 'deep' concepts hidden in its lore somewhere, the actual lore is mostly comic book level writing, which is itself a huge range from the literary noticeable to pure junk. And the corporate marketing based on this lore is still some rungs lower on the ladder.

The prophecy can be made to fit a lot of different thing, as is the nature of prophecies, and with enough convoluted and motivated reasoning you can make the cards fit a lot of people and things, from the Lion to Valdor, to Russ, to Abaddon or to a released unbroken C'tan or even a completely new faction, the Star Child or whatever.

In the end it's gonna be the Big Hunk'o'Marine™ you can sell a flashy model worth 100$ for.

I'm inclined to share this view. Corporate marketing led prophecy done right shouldn't go down the bs mysticism route very far. Its meant to give people actual hints of what they should expect, and get them excited over those expectations rather than disappointed to have their guesses revealed as false.

A green knight with a white winged helmet in a forest fighting a monster is exactly what you think it is, not what you would rather want it to be.

Because otherwise...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watch the reveal for the final book end up being:

Arks of Omen: Guilliman

It's going to be Arks of Omen: Nudist Midget Wrestlers.

We'll finally find out what Watchers in the Dark are hiding under those robes.

drbored wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
The knight's backpack has the same Iron Halo star as the HH Lion model FWIW.

It doesn't though.

The Lion's Iron Halo is quite elaborate and has decorative elements inside it.

They illustrated Farsight as an anime boy and his crisis suit as a horse.

They did. The cards do not represent what they're referring to literally/accurately.

But that makes no difference that what is shown there is absolutely not the "HH Lion Model" Iron Halo. It's just an Iron Halo.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Just a random thought. If it is not Lion El'Jonson, it possibly could be Kaldor Draigo finally free of the warp.

The Key is actually the key to the locker they kept all of Matt Ward's unfinished Codex manuscripts in

Poppycock. I'm a veteran of 3rd through 5th edition and I know GW would just publish them.

Maybe the Key isn't the Lion or some Dark Age piece of technology, but some random super important prisoner of the Dark Angels that GW just never ever mentioned in the lore before

 GaroRobe wrote:
Maybe the Key isn't the Lion or some Dark Age piece of technology, but some random super important prisoner of the Dark Angels that GW just never ever mentioned in the lore before

Or it's just hanging off of Ezekiel's belt?

We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders

I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.

 Tastyfish wrote:
We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders

I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.

Spoilers for the latest Ark of Omen book



Also the Key is clearly being carried by Azrael's Watcher in the Dark model. It has a nice key ring, and a book

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:
We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders

I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.

Spoilers for the latest Ark of Omen book

Spoiler:

The chaos turning on itself is this: Be'lakor, alongside word bearers, alpha legion, daemons, etc, invade the Rock and attack both Dark Angels and Vashtorr's forces. Be'lakor thinks Vashtorr is too full of himself and needs to be humbled. So thanks to Be'lakor, Vashtorr's plans on the Rock aren't completed, though it sounds like the DA are headed into a trap if they pursue Vashtorr for revenge

Also the Key is clearly being carried by Azrael's Watcher in the Dark model. It has a nice key ring, and a book

Spoilers for AoO: Vashtorr

https://www.warhammer-community.com/

New Teaser about Tyranids vs Terminators

Could also be Kill Team but seems a bit too special just for Gallowfall

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/12/echoes-from-the-warp/



Interesting

Well, that helps us track that the terminator based stuff from Valrak is likely the "correct" source at this point.

How does it confirm? Did he specify UM or something? In fact what's he said about terminators?