Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Crispy78 wrote:

Freeing up psychic powers to be used in any phase is good. I like the scaling up in power of the 'eadbanger power, and the risks involved! On the other hand, sounds like there might not be any selecting of powers / spells, just get what's on the unit card. And yeah, the librarian doesn't really thrill me.

There is always the possibility that later on we get 'different' units with a range of 'spells', something like a Brutal-Kunnin' Weirdboy with offensive powers and a Kunnin'-Brutal Weirdboy with e.g. movement powers, or one card for a SM Epistolarius, one for a Codificier and one for a Magister. Or Enhancements/Stratagems that change the powers, we know from the 'Artificer Armour' Enhancment that the datasheets are not totally immutable.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Remember these are early Unit Cards. Codexes may change this up.

I do imagine we'll see something like Ahriman with 3 shooting spells. Smite just seems so very underwhelming though, which is perhaps good for the game to reduce MW output overall.

Morale is really slick.

Psykers, not sure. If this is all there is, a weapon profile or skill with a fancy name and a [PSYCHIC] tag, that reeks of the most hated parts of D&D 4th edition's design.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Combi-weapon. Does this Termy have one on its back? And just a single profile...

That confused me too, but there's also a Storm Bolter profile on the datasheet, so maybe this is for an optional combi-weapon? If that is how they're going to do combi-weapons it's certainly interesting. Instead of literally getting a combi-melta/plasma you get some hybrid with extra special rules attached and seemingly a worse BS too. Seems more streamlined and could work out OK, though I wonder if there might be different versions of combi-weapon depending on the combi component.

Psychic powers look fine. Fewer Mortal Wounds is a good thing. It's funny that this is yet another thing that's being reverted to how they did things in previous editions. The article also says different types of Librarian will have different buffing abilities. I suspect that may also be true of other character types.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Remember these are early Unit Cards. Codexes may change this up.

I do imagine we'll see something like Ahriman with 3 shooting spells. Smite just seems so very underwhelming though, which is perhaps good for the game to reduce MW output overall.

I can see the debate already about his psychich hood FNP against 'psychic attacks' (Keyword) working against his own 'hazardous' MW if his smite overloads

Ok so perhaps the big smite is worth it if you can get a reroll on the # of shots, but you're fishing hard for 6s.

If you get a lucky burst of 6s then you're pushing 2D3 or 3D3 MW. Tempting.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Remember these are early Unit Cards. Codexes may change this up.

I do imagine we'll see something like Ahriman with 3 shooting spells. Smite just seems so very underwhelming though, which is perhaps good for the game to reduce MW output overall.

I can see the debate already about his psychich hood FNP against 'psychic attacks' (Keyword) working against his own 'hazardous' MW if his smite overloads

So like in Fantasy with certain wargear and spell crits?

 Platuan4th wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Remember these are early Unit Cards. Codexes may change this up.

I do imagine we'll see something like Ahriman with 3 shooting spells. Smite just seems so very underwhelming though, which is perhaps good for the game to reduce MW output overall.

I can see the debate already about his psychich hood FNP against 'psychic attacks' (Keyword) working against his own 'hazardous' MW if his smite overloads

So like in 5th through 7th with certain wargear and Perils?

The question (assuming FNP works against MWs still) is if his weapon with the [Psychic] keyword causing a MW on the user due to [Hazardous] (renamed 'Get's hot') is considered a [Psychic] attack or not.

Ok...so we're going to be looking at 3 units of Boyz being able to Jump all at the same time? I can't imagine we'll see spells restricted when they're designed like this.

Time to fear Boyz again.

Tsagualsa wrote:


The question (assuming FNP works against MWs still) is if his weapon with the [Psychic] keyword causing a MW on the user due to [Hazardous] (renamed 'Get's hot') is considered a [Psychic] attack or not.

Yes, just like in Fantasy where there was no indication of if magical feedback for spells counted as "magic attacks" or not. I was talking about the arguments returning, not the rules being defined clearly.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:


The question (assuming FNP works against MWs still) is if his weapon with the [Psychic] keyword causing a MW on the user due to [Hazardous] (renamed 'Get's hot') is considered a [Psychic] attack or not.

Yes, just like in Fantasy where there was no indication of if magical feedback for spells counted as "magic attacks" or not.

Ah, okay. Did not catch that.

Also, am i dumb, or does the RAW on his abilities mean that his Psychic Hood protects the Librarian himself, but only if he leads an unit and not otherwise, and he likewise gets the [Sustained Hits 1] rule when leading an unit, but not when he's alone?

No, you read it correctly. The hood only works while attached to a unit.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok...so we're going to be looking at 3 units of Boyz being able to Jump all at the same time? I can't imagine we'll see spells restricted when they're designed like this.

Time to fear Boyz again.

No, because only one Weirdboy in the army can use it each turn.

Question time.. Character buffs work on units they lead, the units own abilities seem to splash on to characters too ("this unit gets x", character is permanently part of the unit). So, now that smite is a ranged weapon it would get benefit from oath of moment, fury of the first, veil of time all at once? Seems stronger than before, but situationally so.

 Platuan4th wrote:
No, you read it correctly. The hood only works while attached to a unit.

Weird design choice.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok...so we're going to be looking at 3 units of Boyz being able to Jump all at the same time? I can't imagine we'll see spells restricted when they're designed like this.

Time to fear Boyz again.

"Once per turn, at the end of your movement phase, one Weirdboy from your army can use this ability."

I read that as restricting it to once per turn, regardless of how many Weirdboys you have in your list.

 Insularum wrote:
Question time.. Character buffs work on units they lead, the units own abilities seem to splash on to characters too ("this unit gets x", character is permanently part of the unit). So, now that smite is a ranged weapon it would get benefit from oath of moment, fury of the first, veil of time all at once? Seems stronger than before, but situationally so.

It sure seems that way. Oath of Moment is not problematic here, cause the Librarian has it anyway as his blanket rule for being from the SM faction, but theoretically you should be able to pile that stuff on like this. Unless there's some general rule that psychic weapons can't get buffs that they have not yet shown us.

So, does [Psychic] have an effect on its own i.e. requiring a psychic test or is it just to denote something as psychic for effects on other things/ defenses/ strats/ objectives?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
So, does [Psychic] have an effect on its own i.e. requiring a psychic test or is it just to denote something as psychic for effects on other things/ defenses/ strats/ objectives?

We do not know that yet.

Hmm. Checking back on the Librarian reveal, there is no Combi-weapon on his model. Are we finally past WYSIWYG?

Or does that particular model have the option for Storm bolter or Combi-bolter?

 Gert wrote:
The Weirdboy getting better but more explodey is perfect.

So if I'm reading this correctly - a Weirdboy attached to 30 Boyz essentially gets a S12 flat D6 plasma gun shot?

Waaaaaaagh

 Asmodai wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok...so we're going to be looking at 3 units of Boyz being able to Jump all at the same time? I can't imagine we'll see spells restricted when they're designed like this.

Time to fear Boyz again.

"Once per turn, at the end of your movement phase, one Weirdboy from your army can use this ability."

I read that as restricting it to once per turn, regardless of how many Weirdboys you have in your list.

Ah ok - read too quickly. So restrictions will be in spell. Thanks guys.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
So, does [Psychic] have an effect on its own i.e. requiring a psychic test or is it just to denote something as psychic for effects on other things/ defenses/ strats/ objectives?

We do not know that yet.

Given Da Jump and Hazardous - I don't think there is a test at all. And honestly it wouldn't make sense with this setup. I imagine other "big" spells will have some roll in it's rule.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Weirdboy getting better but more explodey is perfect.

So if I'm reading this correctly - a Weirdboy attached to 30 Boyz essentially gets a S12 flat D6 plasma gun shot?

Waaaaaaagh

Yea - beastly for sure.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hmm. Checking back on the Librarian reveal, there is no Combi-weapon on his model. Are we finally past WYSIWYG?

Or does that particular model have the option for Storm bolter or Combi-bolter?

Or they're just consolidating for other available Terminator Librarian models:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Terminator-Librarian-2014

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
So, does [Psychic] have an effect on its own i.e. requiring a psychic test or is it just to denote something as psychic for effects on other things/ defenses/ strats/ objectives?

dont know yet, but im leaning to just being a "type" keyword, as they have explictly moved the perils danger to the smite profile, and similarly with the weridboy. they also talked about the old physic phase in disparaging terms ("...10 minutes spent watching your opponent make a bunch of mysterious 2D6 rolls and remove models accordingly. This was often un-fun and awkward to play around... "), so my read is they have integrated those dangers into the indevidual powers, and "physic" is just a keyword that indicates that physic defenses work agianst it.

 xttz wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Weirdboy getting better but more explodey is perfect.

So if I'm reading this correctly - a Weirdboy attached to 30 Boyz essentially gets a S12 flat D6 plasma gun shot?

Waaaaaaagh

Flat damage 7 but yes.

Still hitting on 4+ though.

I can see a ton of people hating that combi-weapon...

xerxeskingofking wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
So, does [Psychic] have an effect on its own i.e. requiring a psychic test or is it just to denote something as psychic for effects on other things/ defenses/ strats/ objectives?

dont know yet, but im leaning to just being a "type" keyword, as they have explictly moved the perils danger to the smite profile, and similarly with the weridboy. they also talked about the old physic phase in disparaging terms ("...10 minutes spent watching your opponent make a bunch of mysterious 2D6 rolls and remove models accordingly. This was often un-fun and awkward to play around... "), so my read is they have integrated those dangers into the indevidual powers, and "physic" is just a keyword that indicates that physic defenses work agianst it.

That was my reading as well, was just wondering if I missed something. You'd think in an article about psykers that's showing the psychic keyword 7 times they'd bother to explain it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I can see a ton of people hating that combi-weapon...

I wonder what it's supposed to represent. It's just a bolter that does additional stuff against infantry... so it doesn't feel like a combimelter, or combiplasma or combiflamer, but rather like a Bolter with that Sternguard special ammo?

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I can see a ton of people hating that combi-weapon...

Probably because it's GW not understanding why people hate on Chaos Terminators.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Remember these are early Unit Cards. Codexes may change this up.

Smite just seems so very underwhelming though, which is perhaps good for the game to reduce MW output overall.

Have you actually made the math?

Focused smite is comparable if not better than current smite against Marines and softer targets because D6 S6 AP-2 DD3 is not exactly weak even before considering the potential mortal wounds and other buffs.

Admittedly it is against harder targets like tanks that the new smite will be underwhelming.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Morale is really slick.

Psykers, not sure. If this is all there is, a weapon profile or skill with a fancy name and a [PSYCHIC] tag, that reeks of the most hated parts of D&D 4th edition's design.

But remember - everything has to fit onto a single page, so there's really no room at all for any sort of options or choice.

Just ignore the sea of unused white space at the bottom of both psyker pages.

Or the size of the completely unnecessary banner, which only exists to show off the marketing photo.