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T'au tomorrow.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/18/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=ffknights18052023

Imperial Knights

feel free to puzzle over the wording. of _a_ hit roll (and wound roll) of 1..

Two deed options feel... thin... for a faction ability.

---
Rapid Fire Battle Cannon is d6+3 attacks [Blast] and [Rapid fire d6+3]. So... do you roll twice or double the number of shots? Do you double the extra attacks from blast? (Presumably not, but... GW rules)

Rapid Fire does not double anything, it adds the given value to the number of shots, so to me it's clear that you roll two dice that are independent of each other, one for the profile and one for the Rapid Fire. In most cases the Rapid Fire value is identical to the weapon profile value, but we have already seen all manner of abilities that hand out e.g. Sustained Fire 1 or whatever, so i guess there could be abilities that give additional Rapid Fire (likely for e.g. Lootas, Ammo Grots etc.)



If you write out the rules for the Rapid Fire Battlecannon, it reads:

D6+3 attacks. If you're within half range, add D6+3 attacks. For every 5 models in the target unit (rounding down), add 1 attack.

No mention of adding Knights as allies.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/18/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=ffknights18052023

Imperial Knights

feel free to puzzle over the wording. of _a_ hit roll (and wound roll) of 1..

Two deed options feel... thin... for a faction ability.

---
Rapid Fire Battle Cannon is d6+3 attacks [Blast] and [Rapid fire d6+3]. So... do you roll twice or double the number of shots? Do you double the extra attacks from blast? (Presumably not, but... GW rules)

Rapid Fire does not double anything, it adds the given value to the number of shots, so to me it's clear that you roll two dice that are independent of each other, one for the profile and one for the Rapid Fire. In most cases the Rapid Fire value is identical to the weapon profile value, but we have already seen all manner of abilities that hand out e.g. Sustained Fire 1 or whatever, so i guess there could be abilities that give additional Rapid Fire (likely for e.g. Lootas, Ammo Grots etc.)


If you write out the rules for the Rapid Fire Battlecannon, it reads:

D6+3 attacks. If you're within half range, add D6+3 attacks. For every 5 models in the target unit (rounding down), add 1 attack.

Yeah, you're right. Its just that, at a glance at the profile, it reads like doubling and in game that would be faster. Random rapid fire values also just didn't occur to me.
I suspect orks will trade the bizarre dakka weapon type out for rapid fire, so we'll probably see lots of crazy things there.

The wording on a hit roll is because basic rules support "slow rolling", a one die at the time, but most players prefer fast dice rolling, meaning rolling multiple dice at the time. This thing has been around entire 9th edition, and its nothing new.

Simplified, not simple.
Bullsh*t not horsesh*t

These new weapon rules are far worse than previously, adding all the various sustained, devastating, etc key words to them. You should look at a weapon and quickly be able to know how many shots or guts it will get.

 Spreelock wrote:
The wording on a hit roll is because basic rules support "slow rolling", a one die at the time, but most players prefer fast dice rolling, meaning rolling multiple dice at the time. This thing has been around entire 9th edition, and its nothing new.

Can you give any examples? I don't think it has anything to do with 'slow rolling,' just a limit on rerolls.
Cawl's ability is 'each time a model makes an attack, re-roll a hit roll of 1' but that's an entirely different wording that rerolls all applicable rolls.

Voss wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/18/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=ffknights18052023

Imperial Knights

feel free to puzzle over the wording. of _a_ hit roll (and wound roll) of 1..

Two deed options feel... thin... for a faction ability.

---
Rapid Fire Battle Cannon is d6+3 attacks [Blast] and [Rapid fire d6+3]. So... do you roll twice or double the number of shots? Do you double the extra attacks from blast? (Presumably not, but... GW rules)

Rapid Fire does not double anything, it adds the given value to the number of shots, so to me it's clear that you roll two dice that are independent of each other, one for the profile and one for the Rapid Fire. In most cases the Rapid Fire value is identical to the weapon profile value, but we have already seen all manner of abilities that hand out e.g. Sustained Fire 1 or whatever, so i guess there could be abilities that give additional Rapid Fire (likely for e.g. Lootas, Ammo Grots etc.)


If you write out the rules for the Rapid Fire Battlecannon, it reads:

D6+3 attacks. If you're within half range, add D6+3 attacks. For every 5 models in the target unit (rounding down), add 1 attack.

Yeah, you're right. Its just that, at a glance at the profile, it reads like doubling and in game that would be faster. Random rapid fire values also just didn't occur to me.
I suspect orks will trade the bizarre dakka weapon type out for rapid fire, so we'll probably see lots of crazy things there.

It's also deceptive because 2D6+6 and 2*(D6+3) give the same extreme values, same range and same expected value, but widely different variance and distribution, so if you only look at it superficially it looks like it makes no difference, but it obviously does.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Selling out is generally a good thing. It means you didn't make more than you needed to. The gap between demand and supply should be as close as possible, but it'd be a mistake to assume each box will sell more than the next.

There's a big difference between selling out in half an hour to pre-orders, selling out on day of release, and selling out in a fortnight.

If you're regularly hitting the first one, you're leaving money on the table and annoying those customers who can't be slavishly hitting F5 on a browser come pre-order day. At least if you make it to release day and only sell out then, you've satisfied a larger portion of your customer base and made more profit from the release.

While they can't do anything about how 3rd party sellers handle their product, at a bare minimum they should be bringing back the anti-scalper measures (like the queue system) they had, even if they don't go as far as putting in that M2O pre-order promise again.

That's because GW allocates a significant number of what it makes to FLGS and brick and mortar stores. Buying on the web is the last thing players should do. That's where GW makes the most money. Expecting that GW can tap it's commitments to physical locations to fulfill web orders doesn't seem like a good thing to do.

The battle cannon should have had a single value. At 36”, how often are you not going to be in RF range on the smaller table sizes recommended? Again, not seeing the simple here when it’s mostly a moot scenario.

 Asmodai wrote:

A bunch of fairly commonly taken Xenos units are being moved to Legends too - e.g. Warboss on Bike.

I weep

Voss wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
The wording on a hit roll is because basic rules support "slow rolling", a one die at the time, but most players prefer fast dice rolling, meaning rolling multiple dice at the time. This thing has been around entire 9th edition, and its nothing new.

Can you give any examples? I don't think it has anything to do with 'slow rolling,' just a limit on rerolls.
Cawl's ability is 'each time a model makes an attack, re-roll a hit roll of 1' but that's an entirely different wording that rerolls all applicable rolls.

I'm not going to start the debate on this topic, because it has been discussed the whole 8th and 9th edition. Feel free to check any FAQ related to 9th edition rulebook, and if you still disagree, we can wait for 10th edition faqs released shortly after the new book arrives. I'm sure it will address this topic again.

 bullyboy wrote:
The battle cannon should have had a single value. At 36”, how often are you not going to be in RF range on the smaller table sizes recommended? Again, not seeing the simple here when it’s mostly a moot scenario.

Seems weird that the leman russ has a 48" battle cannon and the knight a 72"

edit: Actually, nevermind. This isn't the place for this.

 bullyboy wrote:
Simplified, not simple.
Bullsh*t not horsesh*t

These new weapon rules are far worse than previously, adding all the various sustained, devastating, etc key words to them. You should look at a weapon and quickly be able to know how many shots or guts it will get.

I guess I don't understand your concern. They seem pretty straightforward to me.

 Hellebore wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The battle cannon should have had a single value. At 36”, how often are you not going to be in RF range on the smaller table sizes recommended? Again, not seeing the simple here when it’s mostly a moot scenario.

Seems weird that the leman russ has a 48" battle cannon and the knight a 72"

Longer barrel? Mounted higher off the ground? Knights more common in larger games where Titans walk around and need the longer range?

I will miss 72" battle cannons on tanks. I still miss their 5" blast markers

 bullyboy wrote:
The battle cannon should have had a single value. At 36”, how often are you not going to be in RF range on the smaller table sizes recommended? Again, not seeing the simple here when it’s mostly a moot scenario.

It can come up. And the weapon doesn't have to fully apply to the table size at 2K. It's a unit that shouldn't really exist at this scale.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Simplified, not simple.
Bullsh*t not horsesh*t

These new weapon rules are far worse than previously, adding all the various sustained, devastating, etc key words to them. You should look at a weapon and quickly be able to know how many shots or guts it will get.

I guess I don't understand your concern. They seem pretty straightforward to me.

It does not make a lick of difference if these special rules are listed where the weapon type used to be, or in the column where special rules used to be found, but somehow it gets people really mad about it.

 Hellebore wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The battle cannon should have had a single value. At 36”, how often are you not going to be in RF range on the smaller table sizes recommended? Again, not seeing the simple here when it’s mostly a moot scenario.

Seems weird that the leman russ has a 48" battle cannon and the knight a 72"

Leman Russ weapons are intentionally designed for closer range engagements. In case enemy units need to be hit with a sword.

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/18/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-knights-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=ffknights18052023

Imperial Knights

feel free to puzzle over the wording. of _a_ hit roll (and wound roll) of 1..

Two deed options feel... thin... for a faction ability.

---
Rapid Fire Battle Cannon is d6+3 attacks [Blast] and [Rapid fire d6+3]. So... do you roll twice or double the number of shots? Do you double the extra attacks from blast? (Presumably not, but... GW rules)

Rapid fire 2d6+6 in rapid fire range. Blast isn"t relying on shooter shots so 1 per 5. Extra shots gun get irrelevant. Rapid fire isn't shoot twice but extra shots. It could be rapid fire d3+5 for all it matters.

Imperial knights look disgustingly resilient 😜

Getting slightly concerned at the volume of [anti X] weapons we're seeing that also have [Devastating Wounds]. That thunder oil harpoon is hitting on 2+ possibly re rolling 1s and wounding monsters and vehicles on a 4+ possibly re rolling ones at which point it just does 12 damage.

So much for vehicles getting tougher.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Getting slightly concerned at the volume of [anti X] weapons we're seeing that also have [Devastating Wounds]. That thunder oil harpoon is hitting on 2+ possibly re rolling 1s and wounding monsters and vehicles on a 4+ possibly re rolling ones at which point it just does 12 damage.

So much for vehicles getting tougher.

It's on a 600+ point model unit now, if they get priced more due to the increases then are you really that concerned?

It currently hits on 2's possibly rerolling 1's, S16 AP-6 D10+3MW.

If we're honest the bit that doesn't make much sense is the anti key words since it'll rarely need them beyond as a means to slap mortal wounds out more reliably.

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Getting slightly concerned at the volume of [anti X] weapons we're seeing that also have [Devastating Wounds]. That thunder oil harpoon is hitting on 2+ possibly re rolling 1s and wounding monsters and vehicles on a 4+ possibly re rolling ones at which point it just does 12 damage.

So much for vehicles getting tougher.

It's on a 600+ point model unit now, if they get priced more due to the increases then are you really that concerned?

It currently hits on 2's possibly rerolling 1's, S16 AP-6 D10+3MW.

If we're honest the bit that doesn't make much sense is the anti key words since it'll rarely need them beyond as a means to slap mortal wounds out more reliably.

I mean maybe I just find zero interaction rules boring. You roll your dice, then I'll just pick my models up. What fun that is.

Give them anti X OR give them devastating wounds. If a gun is already s20 odd why give them both anyway?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Simplified, not simple.
Bullsh*t not horsesh*t

These new weapon rules are far worse than previously, adding all the various sustained, devastating, etc key words to them. You should look at a weapon and quickly be able to know how many shots or guts it will get.

I guess I don't understand your concern. They seem pretty straightforward to me.

The knight battle cannon does D6 +3 shots (so between 4 and 9). Within 36” (ie most of the time) it does 2D6 +6 shots (so between 8 and 18). If an enemy unit has 5 to 9 models (most of the time they will), add 1 (don’t remember if this is shots or hits after shots), 10 - 14 models add 1, etc. so you have this big range of values but the most common will be 2D6+6+1. In a “simplified” game, just leave it at 2D6 +6 shots or just give the damn weapon 10 shots and be done with it. And who knows if a specific knight is going to add sustained, or devastating on top of these numbers.

As a firstborn-only Marine player, is the classic dreadnought profile disappearing completely now? (with the model now only used as a proxy for a newer dread?)

In regards to the Sternguard disappearing, I was only using them to make Tactical Squad Sergeants. The new ones I could actually use as legit Sternguard vets, always put off making some as
I havent really come across any in books/company examples etc.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Getting slightly concerned at the volume of [anti X] weapons we're seeing that also have [Devastating Wounds]. That thunder oil harpoon is hitting on 2+ possibly re rolling 1s and wounding monsters and vehicles on a 4+ possibly re rolling ones at which point it just does 12 damage.

So much for vehicles getting tougher.

It's on a 600+ point model unit now, if they get priced more due to the increases then are you really that concerned?

It currently hits on 2's possibly rerolling 1's, S16 AP-6 D10+3MW.

If we're honest the bit that doesn't make much sense is the anti key words since it'll rarely need them beyond as a means to slap mortal wounds out more reliably.

I mean maybe I just find zero interaction rules boring. You roll your dice, then I'll just pick my models up. What fun that is.

Give them anti X OR give them devastating wounds. If a gun is already s20 odd why give them both anyway?

Obviously you'll need it when they release their new plastic models for T36 bigassian hyper-titans in 10th edition. Or they're just phoning in these cards like there was no tomorrow and slapping stuff on there that sounds cool without rhyme or reason because they ultimately don't care about a product that's just a stopgap until your 'proper' codex comes around.

 bullyboy wrote:
Simplified, not simple.
Bullsh*t not horsesh*t

These new weapon rules are far worse than previously, adding all the various sustained, devastating, etc key words to them. You should look at a weapon and quickly be able to know how many shots or guts it will get.

they only seem that way because we're not used to all the keywords yet.

And you're hyperfocusing on the weapon profiles when you should be looking at the game as a whole and looking at how much simpler its gonna be .

*plays Last Post for the Angry Washing Machine Dreadnought*

It has been a part of 40k for as long as I have known 40k. 'Tis a sad day.

You can't take the sky form me...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*plays Last Post for the Angry Washing Machine Dreadnought*

It has been a part of 40k for as long as I have known 40k. 'Tis a sad day.

They mention that stuff based on the Castraferrum chassis, like e.g. the Librarian Dreadnought is not going away, but i guess that's only a matter of time until they get around to replacing them. I sure hope they leave Bjorn alone...