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Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Kauyon sucks.

Sorry, a detachment ability that doesn't have any effect at all until turn 3 is fething terrible.

Well, given the other synergies I'm sort of glad. It gives time for the opponent to try and take out markerlights. Ignore cover and +1BS is solid for a shooting army.

Right. But that's all greater good stuff.

Kauyon gives you 'have the ability to pray for 6s to get extra shoots after being blatted for almost half the game.'
It is, effectively, a penalty box to give the opponent time to wreck face. The tau player's 'benefit' is basically a massage to their statistical curve to compensate for the casualties they've taken so far

Depending on how easy to get re-rolls are, with 2+ you can at least fish for these sixes with comparably little risk.

Chaos Knights tomorrow? I think they meant Monday?

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Chaos Knights tomorrow? I think they meant Monday?

Probably, their Social Media person has been sloppy recently... they also mention it in the text, but don't update the 'Coming up next' graphics for god knows whatever reason, they just can't be arsed really.

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Kauyon sucks.

Sorry, a detachment ability that doesn't have any effect at all until turn 3 is fething terrible.

Well, given the other synergies I'm sort of glad. It gives time for the opponent to try and take out markerlights. Ignore cover and +1BS is solid for a shooting army.

Right. But that's all greater good stuff.

Kauyon gives you 'have the ability to pray for 6s to get extra shoots after being blatted for almost half the game.'
It is, effectively, a penalty box to give the opponent time to wreck face. The tau player's 'benefit' is basically a massage to their statistical curve to compensate for the casualties they've taken so far

Yea, it certainly won't sit everyone's play style. I imagine Montka will be Lethal Hits.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Chaos Knights tomorrow? I think they meant Monday?

Probably, their Social Media person has been sloppy recently... they also mention it in the text, but don't update the 'Coming up next' graphics for god knows whatever reason, they just can't be arsed really.

It always gets updated little late.

tneva82 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Chaos Knights tomorrow? I think they meant Monday?

Probably, their Social Media person has been sloppy recently... they also mention it in the text, but don't update the 'Coming up next' graphics for god knows whatever reason, they just can't be arsed really.

It always gets updated little late.

They edited it out, now it says Monday

Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

You could read the article, maybe that would help:

It’s an elegant system – you select an Observer unit to support a Guided unit in targeting a single enemy unit. The Guided unit gets +1 to their Ballistic Skill when shooting the target, while the Observer shoots as normal that phase. Even if the enemy knocks out your precious Markerlights, you can still keep highlighting targets for destruction – but you’ll want to bring a few along anyway, as Observers with Markerlights also help their comrades Ignore Cover when shooting.

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

If an Observer unit couldn't shoot at all, they wouldn't need to separately be excluded from the "choose a friendly unit that's eligible to shoot" clause.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

If an Observer unit couldn't shoot at all, they wouldn't need to separately be excluded from the "choose a friendly unit that's eligible to shoot" clause.

The point of that covoluted process seems to be that they wanted to state that -barring special rules- no unit could act as an Observer more than once per turn. They used their typical pseudo-legalese for that, probably to prevent rules-lawyering or whatever.

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

I don’t see anything suggesting an Observor unit can’t shoot later in the phase.

What confuses me is the restriction that when choosing an Observor, it has to be eligible to shoot:

select one other friendly unit with this ability that is also eligible to shoot

combined with the Marker Drone rule:

MARKER DRONE The bearer's unit has the MARKERLIGHT keyword and can act as
an Observer unit for another unit even if it Advanced this turn.

So what about units with Assault weapons. Are they eligible to shoot and be selected as an Observer even if they advanced?

Aash wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

I don’t see anything suggesting an Observor unit can’t shoot later in the phase.

What confuses me is the restriction that when choosing an Observor, it has to be eligible to shoot:

select one other friendly unit with this ability that is also eligible to shoot

combined with the Marker Drone rule:

MARKER DRONE The bearer's unit has the MARKERLIGHT keyword and can act as
an Observer unit for another unit even if it Advanced this turn.

So what about units with Assault weapons. Are they eligible to shoot even if they advanced?

Units with Assault are eligible to shoot, but only with [Assault] weapons.



Other than that, Advancing or Falling Back makes units un-eligible to shoot.

Aash wrote:
So what about units with Assault weapons. Are they eligible to shoot and be selected as an Observer even if they advanced?

They specifically are and you only need 1 Assault weapon in the entire unit to have that bonus for the whole unit. So I guess that bonus is for units that don't have any Assault weapons at all.

There's definitely a much better (and probably shorter) way to have written For The Greater Good, thats for sure.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Aash wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

I don’t see anything suggesting an Observor unit can’t shoot later in the phase.

What confuses me is the restriction that when choosing an Observor, it has to be eligible to shoot:

select one other friendly unit with this ability that is also eligible to shoot

combined with the Marker Drone rule:

MARKER DRONE The bearer's unit has the MARKERLIGHT keyword and can act as
an Observer unit for another unit even if it Advanced this turn.

So what about units with Assault weapons. Are they eligible to shoot even if they advanced?

Units with Assault are eligible to shoot, but only with [Assault] weapons.



Other than that, Advancing or Falling Back makes units un-eligible to shoot.

I think the unit is eligible to shoot after advancing if it’s equipped with any assault weapons, so would be a valid choice as an Observer unit. But I don’t think it’s clear.

Aash wrote:


I think the unit is eligible to shoot after advancing if it’s equipped with any assault weapons, so would be a valid choice as an Observer unit. But I don’t think it’s clear.

They may literally solve this by not giving the T'au any Assault weapons, or none on relevant units

Even a single Gun Drone would make a unit have an assault weapon though

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Even a single Gun Drone would make a unit have an assault weapon though

Yes, but units that can get gun drones can usually get marker drones as well to be better at observing, and many drone-able units you'd want to have the bonus, i.e. you'd want them to be the Guided Unit, not the Observer Unit. We'll have to see how it plays out, but i have a gut feeling that this question will not arise that often in actual play.

Interesting they didnt mention Vespids or Kroot, must have been deleted from the game /s

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
There's definitely a much better (and probably shorter) way to have written For The Greater Good, thats for sure.

Agreed. Kind of funny that they referred to it as "elegant" in their article too. The result may be fluffy and interesting, but I definitely wouldn't call it elegant.

Slipspace wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
There's definitely a much better (and probably shorter) way to have written For The Greater Good, thats for sure.

Agreed. Kind of funny that they referred to it as "elegant" in their article too. The result may be fluffy and interesting, but I definitely wouldn't call it elegant.

I think the rule effect is fairly elegant. Spotter units give a shooting bonus to another unit, but the way it’s written certainly isn’t!!

I like how pathfinders kept inflated 4+ despite having 5+ during 98% of their existence and tiny armor covering almost nothing on their model. Why was Admech nerfed so harshly for very little reason again? Also, I am not sure if drones give buff to one model or whole unit, like the text implies, but if it's the latter, it's funny how 36 inch bolt stalkers were nerfed to 24 while pathfinders thanks to irregular range can buff their carbine (what is short range gun by definition) to 26, becoming the longest ranged default gun regular infantry we saw so far. Or easy boost to W2, doubling unit durability - wonder how GW will price this one. Oh, and they move faster than space marines, because why not. Add scout/infiltrate move plus drone giving spot buff after advancing and they zoom Sonic style making SM assault units look like snails

Also, is it me or battleshocked units can spot (because shell shocked dudes hiding in trench are perfect at making detailed observations of what the other side of comm conversation asks them to look for). First example we have of 10th edition morale not mattering anymore?

Tau also kept inflated gun ranges (and stats) because of course, we can't nerf pet army of GW writer. This is especially comical in the case of the guns Votann sold Tau - their version is supposed to be vastly superior DAoT original but all alike guns we saw so far it's the Tau one that blows Leagues out of the water. Just compare tank railguns, Tau one has 2.5x the range and improvement in every single number despite being on much lighter vehicle because frak you

Also, is it me or blastgun AP went from -4 to -6 for no reason too (and lost no range) when all its equivalents in other armies saw AP/range drops? Consistency, what's that?

I'm having a reeeeeeeeal tough time not getting feisty over the Pathfinders getting a 4+ save while Cadians and Skitarii are 5+ saves.

So Drones are just figments of our imagination?

Ok then...

 Irbis wrote:
I like how pathfinders kept inflated 4+ despite having 5+ during 98% of their existence and tiny armor covering almost nothing on their model. Why was Admech nerfed so harshly for very little reason again? Also, I am not sure if drones give buff to one model or whole unit, like the text implies, but if it's the latter, it's funny how 36 inch bolt stalkers were nerfed to 24 while pathfinders thanks to irregular range can buff their carbine (what is short range gun by definition) to 26, becoming the longest ranged default gun regular infantry we saw so far. Or easy boost to W2, doubling unit durability - wonder how GW will price this one. Oh, and they move faster than space marines, because why not. Add scout/infiltrate move plus drone giving spot buff after advancing and they zoom Sonic style making SM assault units look like snails

Also, is it me or battleshocked units can spot (because shell shocked dudes hiding in trench are perfect at making detailed observations of what the other side of comm conversation asks them to look for). First example we have of 10th edition morale not mattering anymore?

Tau also kept inflated gun ranges (and stats) because of course, we can't nerf pet army of GW writer. This is especially comical in the case of the guns Votann sold Tau - their version is supposed to be vastly superior DAoT original but all alike guns we saw so far it's the Tau one that blows Leagues out of the water. Just compare tank railguns, Tau one has 2.5x the range and improvement in every single number despite being on much lighter vehicle because frak you

Also, is it me or blastgun AP went from -4 to -6 for no reason too (and lost no range) when all its equivalents in other armies saw AP/range drops? Consistency, what's that?

I love that any time someone thinks an army got special treatment that it must be because it's a pet army.

Shield drones aren't giving +1W to the whole unit, either.

Their gun lost 4" and the accelerator used to give AP so this is a net loss. The Blastcannon DID pick up 2 AP, but the dispersed lost 2S.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Drones are just figments of our imagination?

Ok then...

And now I dread what they will do with Spore Mines?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Drones are just figments of our imagination?

Ok then...

Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, that Tau rule is an absolute mess. Simplified, not simple. Lol
So I can’t figure out if a spotter unit can also shoot later in the turn or does it have to give up shooting. Could it have shot earlier. Who knows from that garbled mess.

You could read the article, maybe that would help:

It’s an elegant system – you select an Observer unit to support a Guided unit in targeting a single enemy unit. The Guided unit gets +1 to their Ballistic Skill when shooting the target, while the Observer shoots as normal that phase. Even if the enemy knocks out your precious Markerlights, you can still keep highlighting targets for destruction – but you’ll want to bring a few along anyway, as Observers with Markerlights also help their comrades Ignore Cover when shooting.

I shouldn’t have to read a summary of a rule as it should be clear in the rule itself.
So it looks like you’ll need tokens to mark which units have observed that turn.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

I care little for their ablative-ness, more that Drones just don't count anymore. They're nothing. They just take up space. They might as well not be on the table.

I mean... there are armed Drones... do you measure range/LOS from them?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

I care little for their ablative-ness, more that Drones just don't count anymore. They're nothing. They just take up space. They might as well not be on the table.

I mean... there are armed Drones... do you measure range/LOS from them?

The missile drone refers to the 'bearer,' so presumably the drone controller. Whoever that is.

Shoving them out of the way of movement and melee is going to be annoying though.