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 Dysartes wrote:
I still don't get why that Codex hasn't been restored to being "Talons of the Emperor" instead of "Adeptus Custodes" yet.

Same. I miss the general weirdness of 40k more and more, and some more Sisters stuff like the Flash-Gordon-inspired transport from FW they have would work well. There are a lot of things mentioned in the fluff (Jetbike squads, two flyers etc.) they could use to round out the Range. And flashy characters, too - weird that what basically amounts to a knightly order of Anti-Psykers has no Paladins and epic Heroes represented on the board.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

Same. Any thought of playing 9th is gone. I'm too forward focused.

9th? What's that? There is no 9th edition just like there is no Mark IX Astartes power armour (or Windows 9)!

 Dysartes wrote:
I still don't get why that Codex hasn't been restored to being "Talons of the Emperor" instead of "Adeptus Custodes" yet.

Because it's not faux-latin. Duh.

Orks https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/24/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-orks-2/

Armor going to 5+ as expected. The FNP on the snaggas is nice. Thump gun seems better.

Sucks that Orks are stuck to goff pressure. Good thing their book is earlier in the release lineup.

Well, that was about what I expected for Waaagh. Not so much the battle round timing.

Totally-not-Goffs-tribe detachment is... fine.

Ghaz shows off the move from dakka weapons to rapid fire. His rules make him a nasty addition to a death star unit, but I'm not terribly impressed beyond being a buff monster.


Beast snagga's monster slayer ability really doesn't give them much to actually hurt their targets. They're left behind by the T increases (and their own low AP).

Kinda disappointed that our WAAAGH! is basically unchanged at all from the current balance dataslate, feels really lazy. I guess it's better that it's not just CORE units now? And you get to use it more defensively, but I was kind of hoping for something that was more passive in the background with an option to call a WAAAGH! especially since it seems we don't get 2 stages of it anymore.

The detachment giving the entire army exploding 6's in melee, is also...not bad I guess, but very underwhelming since it feels like we only got half of a Goff trait and that's it.

BS profile is interesting that they're 5+ armour base, not sure if that will apply to boyz as well, but they've got 6+ FNP instead of an invuln which is a mixed bag and probably annoying to DG players. The bigger reveal are choppas being AP-1 still, which is actually a significant deal since that means our boyz won't just bounce off things like 2+ save units.
I presume since the power snappa was originally AP-2 but is now AP-1, that the power klaw will be indeed AP-2 like the SM powerfist.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why the feth do non damaging psychic abilities work fine on them now?

Because gw went for psychic being reliable. Tournament players complaining spells not going off.

Yay Thousand Sons tomorrow!

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Why the feth do non damaging psychic abilities work fine on them now?

Because gw went for psychic being reliable. Tournament players complaining spells not going off.

Tournament players complaining about SoS blocking psychic powers need to a, grow up; and b, learn to target units that can be affected by such abilities.

If they can't achieve b, then they're not going to be very good, now, are they?

Bloody tournament whiners...

tneva82 wrote:
Tournament players complaining spells not going off.

SoS weren't any anyone's radar. Don't make stuff up. Abhor was the issue.

Ghazhkull seems pretty poor imo.

Only 6 attacks and t6? He's not as tough guilliman and has less attacks? Wtf. The primarchwank is strong this edition...

 Hellebore wrote:
Ghazhkull seems pretty poor imo.

Only 6 attacks and t6? He's not as tough guilliman and has less attacks? Wtf. The primarchwank is strong this edition...

He's about the same as he was. Note that he gets Sustained Hits, +1S +1A Lethal Hits in Waaagh, and +1 hit and wound when leading.

The faction focuses show the loss of a lot of special rules in each army, which many have called for to improve gameplay. The downside of course is generally the loss of flavor. It’s all a bit vanilla, and I guess hard resets do that. I’ll probably still play 9th crusade as 10th will be a little watered down for the depth I want. Hard to get too excited by what we’re seeing apart from the “new” factor.

 Dysartes wrote:
Bloody tournament whiners...

Did you really just take the bait and then go an extra mile? At this point I'd like to see evidence of tournament players complaining about SoS.

So Boyz get to keep Nobz hey?

Gives us hope for Exarchs, but Vet Sergeants/Aspiring Champs get nothing?

 Hellebore wrote:
Ghazhkull seems pretty poor imo.

Only 6 attacks and t6? He's not as tough guilliman and has less attacks? Wtf. The primarchwank is strong this edition...

T6 matters less when he's surrounded by meganobz. While marine attacks go to meganobz you attack guilliman directly

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Ghazhkull seems pretty poor imo.

Only 6 attacks and t6? He's not as tough guilliman and has less attacks? Wtf. The primarchwank is strong this edition...

He's about the same as he was. Note that he gets Sustained Hits, +1S +1A Lethal Hits in Waaagh, and +1 hit and wound when leading.

He lost a pt of toughness which is a comparatively massive nerf in the game where toughness went up. T7 is the new t9. He's squishier than a custodes Terminator. Guilliman jumped 3pts of toughness! Ghaz went from being wounded by a lascannon on a 3+ to a 2+. He went from wounding guilliman on a 2+ to a 3+.

Waaagh is once per battle, hardly impressive. Guiiliman gained lethal hits on his first all the time. He lost 2 wounds while guilliman gained one.

Somehow despite being larger than guilliman they made him capable of hiding in units, which is about the only positive he has.

 bullyboy wrote:
The faction focuses show the loss of a lot of special rules in each army, which many have called for to improve gameplay. The downside of course is generally the loss of flavor. It’s all a bit vanilla, and I guess hard resets do that. I’ll probably still play 9th crusade as 10th will be a little watered down for the depth I want. Hard to get too excited by what we’re seeing apart from the “new” factor.

Well these are just the pretty stripped down indexes, so we should expect that. Will have to wait to see codexes being brought in to really tell what flavour level they are going for.

 Trickstick wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The faction focuses show the loss of a lot of special rules in each army, which many have called for to improve gameplay. The downside of course is generally the loss of flavor. It’s all a bit vanilla, and I guess hard resets do that. I’ll probably still play 9th crusade as 10th will be a little watered down for the depth I want. Hard to get too excited by what we’re seeing apart from the “new” factor.

Well these are just the pretty stripped down indexes, so we should expect that. Will have to wait to see codexes being brought in to really tell what flavour level they are going for.

They've already said the stats won't change from the cards for the codex and there will just be detachment rules and Crusade.

So ostensibly this is as rules heavy as it gets

 Trickstick wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The faction focuses show the loss of a lot of special rules in each army, which many have called for to improve gameplay. The downside of course is generally the loss of flavor. It’s all a bit vanilla, and I guess hard resets do that. I’ll probably still play 9th crusade as 10th will be a little watered down for the depth I want. Hard to get too excited by what we’re seeing apart from the “new” factor.

Well these are just the pretty stripped down indexes, so we should expect that. Will have to wait to see codexes being brought in to really tell what flavour level they are going for.

The same.
The format is 2 page rules with faction ability, detachment ability, 6 strats, and a handful of 'enhancements.'

Codexes will bring new detachments, they aren't going to re-write everything. The datacards (especially for the early books) will hardly get tweaked, and neither will the faction abilities.

What will change in each codex is new detachments swapping out detachment abilities, strats and enhancements for different sets.

Now, this might well change toward the middle and end of the edition, but for the first nine books on the roadmap, this is what's on offer.

 Hellebore wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Ghazhkull seems pretty poor imo.

Only 6 attacks and t6? He's not as tough guilliman and has less attacks? Wtf. The primarchwank is strong this edition...

He's about the same as he was. Note that he gets Sustained Hits, +1S +1A Lethal Hits in Waaagh, and +1 hit and wound when leading.

He lost a pt of toughness which is a comparatively massive nerf in the game where toughness went up. T7 is the new t9. He's squishier than a custodes Terminator. Guilliman jumped 3pts of toughness! Ghaz went from being wounded by a lascannon on a 3+ to a 2+. He went from wounding guilliman on a 2+ to a 3+.

Waaagh is once per battle, hardly impressive. Guiiliman gained lethal hits on his first all the time. He lost 2 wounds while guilliman gained one.

Somehow despite being larger than guilliman they made him capable of hiding in units, which is about the only positive he has.

Right, but that's a major consideration.

Bobby has 7 S14 AP4 D4

((7 * .167) + (7 * .666 * .833)) * .5 * 4 = 10 //Ghaz is dead

Ghaz has 6 S14 AP3 D4 and SH1

((6 * .167 * 2) + (6 * .666)) * .833 * .5 * 4 = 10 // Bobby is dead

The difference being that Bobby has to spend CP to get at Ghaz.

Nah, he gets +1 to wound roll. He still wounds Bobby G on a 2. A lascannon would need precision to even target him. You also have to get through makari's 2+ inv.

Looking pretty good for Orks, ere we go and da jump looks solid, as does strategic reserving any of the walker-transports to rapid ingress on a flank. Doesn't do much to encourage anything other than pressure lists, but seems like there are a lot of tools there without resorting to bloated rules.

edit - Can Ghaz use Makari like a shadow field on precision attacks? Or can the attacker choose which character if there are multiple choices?

Domandi wrote:
Nah, he gets +1 to wound roll. He still wounds Bobby G on a 2. A lascannon would need precision to even target him. You also have to get through makari's 2+ inv.

AFAIK, you do not ever have to get through makari's 2++. [Precision] lets the attacker pick a character as the target.

So is Ghaz effectively immune to battle shock?

A 2 model unit can’t be below half strength, and since it’s not a single model unit you don’t measure half strength from remaining wounds.

 Hellebore wrote:

He lost a pt of toughness which is a comparatively massive nerf in the game where toughness went up.

The Death Guard fanbase disagrees that -1 T is a massive nerf to things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aash wrote:
So is Ghaz effectively immune to battle shock?

A 2 model unit can’t be below half strength, and since it’s not a single model unit you don’t measure half strength from remaining wounds.

He's part of a unit likely, which will have a starting strength.

Aash wrote:
So is Ghaz effectively immune to battle shock?

A 2 model unit can’t be below half strength, and since it’s not a single model unit you don’t measure half strength from remaining wounds.

You would probably want to put him in some sort of nob unit, or he will just get shot off the board.

 Insularum wrote:
edit - Can Ghaz use Makari like a shadow field on precision attacks? Or can the attacker choose which character if there are multiple choices?

Attacker chooses. Markari is only good to tank on the unit after waaagh is over.

Voss wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The faction focuses show the loss of a lot of special rules in each army, which many have called for to improve gameplay. The downside of course is generally the loss of flavor. It’s all a bit vanilla, and I guess hard resets do that. I’ll probably still play 9th crusade as 10th will be a little watered down for the depth I want. Hard to get too excited by what we’re seeing apart from the “new” factor.

Well these are just the pretty stripped down indexes, so we should expect that. Will have to wait to see codexes being brought in to really tell what flavour level they are going for.

The same.
The format is 2 page rules with faction ability, detachment ability, 6 strats, and a handful of 'enhancements.'

Codexes will bring new detachments, they aren't going to re-write everything. The datacards (especially for the early books) will hardly get tweaked, and neither will the faction abilities.

What will change in each codex is new detachments swapping out detachment abilities, strats and enhancements for different sets.

Now, this might well change toward the middle and end of the edition, but for the first nine books on the roadmap, this is what's on offer.

I am really curious what form the new detachment rules are going to take. All the index ones are a general one, but how specific do we think they are going to get? Like, are we going to get a full destroyer cult deatchment set, or just general Melee? Canoptek/Cryptek focused one?

Hopefully they can add flavor back in that way.