10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**ProfSrlojohn**

Trickstick wrote:
Well Cadians were described as 10 or 20 in their focus, but Guard are usually more strict on this sort of thing.

Guard also has been locked at 9 1/2 guns for ages, even when they could be taken in platoons, the individual squads were 10 man. So it's not the best example, since all the new rules are doing are allowing you to make psuedo-platoons again.

**Tsagualsa**

Trickstick wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... do we know yet if units will have variable sizes?

The Dark Eldar preview made it sound as if Kabalites start at 10 models. Do you think they'd do that with other armies, like Marines? Or even set increments (an Ork Boyz unit has 1 Nob and 9 Boyz, it may add an additional 10 Boyz for X points)?

I hope they are fixed increments, or there are going to be a lot of 9/14/19 size squads to avoid blast brackets. The heavy weapons in Guard squads will be interesting in that regard too, unless they have some extra "counts as 2 models for blast" rule, which I think is possible.

I can't understand why they did not introduce a 'Size' stat for units, that would have been useful for transports of all sorts as well as for terrain- and cover-related things, and a general 'reset' of the system is pretty much the only time you can do such a thing. Oh well, they never miss...

**H.B.M.C.**

Trickstick wrote:
I hope they are fixed increments, or there are going to be a lot of 9/14/19 size squads to avoid blast brackets.

Well right now you have a unit of 5 and then you take a 6th and it's a liability as suddenly blast weapons get better. With the new way Blast works, adding that 6th doesn't suddenly give blast weapons a sharp increase.

Guard being set at 10 isn't really all that special, given that's normal for them. I'm worried about Marines being stuck at 10, or 5 or 10.

**Shadow Walker**

Battle Report from Combat Patrol mode https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/31/the-first-battle-report-from-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-is-here-and-its-free-for-everyone/

**The Red Hobbit**

PenitentJake wrote:
They'll stick to the two page thing, for sure.

But over the course of the edition, they'll produce 10-15 or more different per army between codices, campaign books, White Dwarf, etc. And the cool thing about that is that detachments that don't have unit restrictions allow you to choose from any of those detachment WITHOUT altering your army list.

I have lamented the loss of subfaction identities from the 2nd class factions, but I've got to admit that giving a player the option of altering everything about how an army feels and plays by making a single choice... It's actually kinda cool.

I think it might maintain people's interest in their armies rather than lead to boredom. Get bored? Change detachment. Same models, but completely new set of enhancements (WL traits and Relics) strats, and a detachment rule. It'll feel like a whole new army without the purchase of a single model.

There will be some detachments that do have model restrictions... But their might be the potential for detachments to include cross-faction composition. I think of the Torchbearer or Army of Faith rules from 9th, and it occurs to me that a two page detachment spread would be a perfectly serviceable way to represent them.

Tomorrow's preview is the one I've been most excited about. I actually got a copy of Ashes of Faith and I already own most of the Inquisitors. I've got models from all three Chambers Militant on deck. The Imperial Agents Faction Focus will answer a lot of questions.

I'm also favorable towards detachments since it lets you play a style you want to play while not being stuck using the paint scheme. If my red Orks want to be Bad Moons for the day they can, I do hope as others have noted that detachments will feel like a different detachment. Other a unit requirement like (you must have 3 tanks and 3 APCs) or change to battleline. Changing the Reroll 1s from Hit to Wound as Cannon Fodder 37th mentioned would be very underwhelming.

My biggest concern is going to be how viable are the detachments. If a codex gives you 10 new detachments, but let's say 2-3 of them are VERY GOOD, I suspect we aren't going to see the other 7 or 8 played very often, and that's disappointing. Some Codexes in 9e did very well making the different subfactions desireable, but..not all of them. I'm hopeful that the detachments are all roughly on the same power level, we do not get power creep right out the door and we have more than a year of fun games to look forward to. We shall see.

**Aash**

Imperial Agents is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-agents-2/

**Biasn**

So after reading this one , is there actually any upside of beeing a psyker unit? I only see stuff like "Anti Psyker 4+" or "FNP against Psychic attacks" ? The psyker units dont even seem that strong (like Rubrics for example) or are they just cheaper for the power overall?

I fail to see how the psychic/Psyker keywords are something good. Do they worsen invulns or are they just guns with downsides?

Edit: even after looking at the Inquisitor Profile , its just a better Psyker than Ahriman is or am i totally crazy? (Anti Psyker 2+ Devastating Wounds btw , seems like you can even tailor your list against Tsons or Greyknights)

**Tsagualsa**

Aash wrote:
Imperial Agents is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-agents-2/

Tomorrow will get a look at five different SM chapters (BA, DA, BT, SW are probably a given).

**Aash**

So the Vindacare's weapon abilites seems to lead to some odd interactions for a sniper assassin.

Devastating Wounds converts Damage into Mortal Wounds, which means wounds can carry over, so a Critical Wound causes 3 +d3 mortal wounds (6 + d3 if its a critical hit too), which means the precision sniper shot has the potential to wipe out a whole squad of models.

**BertBert**

I have to say I'm enjoying the fact that I can just attach an inquisitor to any of my sister squads or the new retinue kit. This sparks a lot of joy and I'll have to convert one for the occasion.

**Tsagualsa**

Aash wrote:
So the Vindacare's weapon abilites seems to lead to some odd interactions for a sniper assassin.

Devastating Wounds converts Damage into Mortal Wounds, which means wounds can carry over, so a Critical Wound causes 3 +d3 mortal wounds (6 + d3 if its a critical hit too), which means the precision sniper shot has the potential to wipe out a whole squad of models.

Imagine that as either lining up a shot very very carefully, or doing big Hollywood larger-than-life-hero stuff like shooting a fuel cell so that it detonates, hitting a red barrel full of combustive stuff that was conveniently placed there, or other such feats.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Aash wrote:
So the Vindacare's weapon abilites seems to lead to some odd interactions for a sniper assassin.

Devastating Wounds converts Damage into Mortal Wounds, which means wounds can carry over, so a Critical Wound causes 3 +d3 mortal wounds (6 + d3 if its a critical hit too), which means the precision sniper shot has the potential to wipe out a whole squad of models.

So skilled they can hit them all in a row, even if it requires the bullet to ricochet multiple times to do so.
A true trick shot pro.

**Kanluwen**

I don't understand why Brood Brothers wasn't a table like the Agents bit.

**Aash**

Tsagualsa wrote:
Aash wrote:
So the Vindacare's weapon abilites seems to lead to some odd interactions for a sniper assassin.

Devastating Wounds converts Damage into Mortal Wounds, which means wounds can carry over, so a Critical Wound causes 3 +d3 mortal wounds (6 + d3 if its a critical hit too), which means the precision sniper shot has the potential to wipe out a whole squad of models.

Imagine that as either lining up a shot very very carefully, or doing big Hollywood larger-than-life-hero stuff like shooting a fuel cell so that it detonates, hitting a red barrel full of combustive stuff that was conveniently placed there, or other such feats.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Aash wrote:
So the Vindacare's weapon abilites seems to lead to some odd interactions for a sniper assassin.

Devastating Wounds converts Damage into Mortal Wounds, which means wounds can carry over, so a Critical Wound causes 3 +d3 mortal wounds (6 + d3 if its a critical hit too), which means the precision sniper shot has the potential to wipe out a whole squad of models.

So skilled they can hit them all in a row, even if it requires the bullet to ricochet multiple times to do so.
A true trick shot pro.

Oh, I know it can be hand-waved away and whatnot, its just not how I would have expected the Vindacare's sniping to be represented; seems like a set of special rules more suited to the Eversor's melee attacks.

**Tsagualsa**

Kanluwen wrote:
I don't understand why Brood Brothers wasn't a table like the Agents bit.

It seems like they do the table for stuff that has separate limits for characters and units, while they do just a list if it's just points. I still think they should have done a table for all, for consistency.

**Leggy**

Biasn wrote:
So after reading this one , is there actually any upside of beeing a psyker unit? I only see stuff like "Anti Psyker 4+" or "FNP against Psychic attacks" ? The psyker units dont even seem that strong (like Rubrics for example) or are they just cheaper for the power overall?

I fail to see how the psychic/Psyker keywords are something good. Do they worsen invulns or are they just guns with downsides?

Edit: even after looking at the Inquisitor Profile , its just a better Psyker than Ahriman is or am i totally crazy? (Anti Psyker 2+ Devastating Wounds btw , seems like you can even tailor your list against Tsons or Greyknights)

If i understand the order of operations right, Anti-psyker isn't that great. If the psyker is in a bodyguard unit, wounds are rolled against the unit. Anti- psyker only works if the bodyguard are psykers too.
Equally, precision isn't great in that situation, as it activates AFTER wounds are rolled. You can allocate against the psyker but you're not getting full benefits unless you deal with the bodyguard first.

Psykers walking alone (and grey knights) are deffo toast though.

Also, Only the unit leader in Rubrics has psyker. You need to isolate him for anti-psyker to work, and he can't be targeted with precision either.

**Agusto**

"Inquisitors take more of a supporting role on the battlefield. They’re capable fighters, but they’re still only Human and don’t appreciate being placed in too much danger. The paramount ability of the standard Inquisitor – insofar as there is such a thing – is Power of the Rosette. This gives a high chance to refund one Command point spent on a Stratagem for their unit – and since they can join any IMPERIUM BATTLELINE INFANTRY unit, the possibilities for cut-price Stratagem activations are endless."

Well, since the rules clearly state that you can only ever get one extra CP per battle round, I would say that there is a quite clear limit to the stratagem activations.

I was really hoping for Inquisitors to be something more than a way to farm a few CP.

**Grinshanks**

The Inquisitor rules are really as dull as dishwater.

**Biasn**

Leggy wrote:
Biasn wrote:
So after reading this one , is there actually any upside of beeing a psyker unit? I only see stuff like "Anti Psyker 4+" or "FNP against Psychic attacks" ? The psyker units dont even seem that strong (like Rubrics for example) or are they just cheaper for the power overall?

I fail to see how the psychic/Psyker keywords are something good. Do they worsen invulns or are they just guns with downsides?

Edit: even after looking at the Inquisitor Profile , its just a better Psyker than Ahriman is or am i totally crazy? (Anti Psyker 2+ Devastating Wounds btw , seems like you can even tailor your list against Tsons or Greyknights)

If i understand the order of operations right, Anti-psyker isn't that great. If the psyker is in a bodyguard unit, wounds are rolled against the unit. Anti- psyker only works if the bodyguard are psykers too.
Equally, precision isn't great in that situation, as it activates AFTER wounds are rolled. You can allocate against the psyker but you're not getting full benefits unless you deal with the bodyguard first.

Psykers walking alone (and grey knights) are deffo toast though.

Also, Only the unit leader in Rubrics has psyker. You need to isolate him for anti-psyker to work, and he can't be targeted with precision either.

Well if its only against the lone Sorcerer in the rubric its okay , but my point stands , psychic/Psyker is just a keyword with only nearly downsides no? There is no unit thats extra weak to psychic powers. A str4 -1 1dmg weapon is strong than a str4 -1 1dmg [Psychic] weapon

**James12345**

I hope acolytes are still around. Would an inquisitor in a group of acolytes count as 1 unit or 2?

**Agusto**

I honestly don't think that GW has had any idea what to do with Inquisitors since Codex:Witchhunters.

They just add them to the game and think that it will be enough.

**Grinshanks**

James12345 wrote:
I hope acolytes are still around. Would an inquisitor in a group of acolytes count as 1 unit or 2?

I imagine they will be, all lumped together each armed with an invocative 'acolyte gun' and 'acolyte melee weapon'.

**GaroRobe**

Agusto wrote:
I honestly don't think that GW has had any idea what to do with Inquisitors since Codex:Witchhunters.

They just add them to the game and think that it will be enough.

At the very least, I wish they were a codex included option for death watch 🥲

**Daedalus81**

Grinshanks wrote:
The Inquisitor rules are really as dull as dishwater.

Really? I think they're pretty great. Useful and not just a footnote.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Biasn wrote:
Well if its only against the lone Sorcerer in the rubric its okay , but my point stands , psychic/Psyker is just a keyword with only nearly downsides no? There is no unit thats extra weak to psychic powers. A str4 -1 1dmg weapon is strong than a str4 -1 1dmg [Psychic] weapon

So far we've seen only defenses against psychic weapons and not weaknesses. I imagine we will not see a weakness.

**Boosykes**

I'm surprised navy breachers are 4+ save thought they would be 5+ like skitarii.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Grinshanks wrote:
James12345 wrote:
I hope acolytes are still around. Would an inquisitor in a group of acolytes count as 1 unit or 2?

I imagine they will be, all lumped together each armed with an invocative 'acolyte gun' and 'acolyte melee weapon'.

given the recent Kill Team is a bunch of Inquisitorial Henchmen, I bet it'll be more like "1 Servitor with Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon or Multi-melta, 1 Interegator OR Enlightener, 1 Pistoleer OR Questkeeper, 1 Mystic OR Hexorcist, 1 Penal Legionaire OR Death World Veteran and 1 Autosavant" with a special rule that used a Tome-Skull token.

**xerxeskingofking**

so, tomorrow they are looked at some non-codex chapters. theirs a splash banner on the 40K FB page with dark angels, space wolves, blood angels, black templars and deathwatch on it. as a DW player, i am looking forward to some clue as to how we are going to be this edition.

Fridays final teaser is about "the Titans of Warhammer 40,000 shake the earth with some thunderous new rules", which sound like marketing speak for a look at the forge world stuff.

**H.B.M.C.**

Good to see that all Inquisitors are psykers now, and that they all know the one psychic power. Cool.

And we've gone beyond NMNR sprue-based wargear options. Now we're basing options on what the studio built the model as, regardless of its options. The Navis Sergeant-at-Arms' shotgun can be replaced with Autopistol/Chainsword or Bolt Pistol/Power Weapon, but never a mix of the two. This is despite the fact that the model can literally be built with any pistol/CCW combination. I'm looking at the damned instructions and its right there. The power sword and chainsword go on the same arm, so they can go with either the BP or the Autopistol, and vice versa.

Why do they keep doing this?

Grinshanks wrote:
The Inquisitor rules are really as dull as dishwater.

Such is the result of a studio who thinks that they shouldn't even be on the battlefield.

**Agusto**

"Really? I think they're pretty great. Useful and not just a footnote."

How? A 5+++ vs MW, which isn't a big thing in 10th, and a 3+ chance to get one CP if you used a Strat on the unit the Inquisitor was inbedded with. I would not call that pretty great.

Maybe if they are around 25p. But I really don't think they will be.

Also, no way to customize or make your own unique Inquisitor. Again.

**Leggy**

Biasn wrote:

Well if its only against the lone Sorcerer in the rubric its okay , but my point stands , psychic/Psyker is just a keyword with only nearly downsides no? There is no unit thats extra weak to psychic powers. A str4 -1 1dmg weapon is strong than a str4 -1 1dmg [Psychic] weapon

So far, it does seem that way, but we should wait for the full listings to be certain.
While its rare to see units that have built-in weaknesses against certain attacks anymore, its likely that some armies will have abilities that buff PSYCHIC attacks (See the 1kSons detachment).