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Weapons with different stats are jusr bloat. Truly every unit should just have a 'Firepower Rating' and a 'Fight Rating' so we never have to endure the enless torture of having to remember that flamers and shotguns are different things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weapons with different stats are jusr bloat. Truly every unit should just have a 'Firepower Rating' and a 'Fight Rating' so we never have to endure the enless torture of having to remember that flamers and shotguns are different things.

Don't give them ideas...

well, maybe we are getting back Epic 40k, but in 28mm....

 kodos wrote:
well, maybe we are getting back Epic 40k, but in 28mm....

...[cough] Apocalypse! [cough] . . .

While it is indisputable that space marines have too many units. I don't see why chaos should loose heresy era equipment. In fact they need to o give chaos levithan dreads as a conter to redemptor as they are about the same size. The kratos to compete with their flying tanks chaos should have old stuff as a lot of them have been around since the beginning of the imperium.

But if they want to cut space marine data sheets I'm all for it start with the many redundant options then start cutting the Squat marines as separate data sheets.

Then people can just use old matines as the new primaris data sheets.

(though I did prefer the tacticals to the intercessors, but that ship has sailed and jump infantry, honestly the old marines lore and style was just better they just needed to update the models to the new size and not have done all this primaris make over nonsense. )

Whelp. Looks like my Deathwatch army is about to get invalidated HARD.


Also, I like how a storm shield gives +1W, but a black and silver storm shield gives 4++...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Whelp. Looks like my Deathwatch army is about to get invalidated HARD.


Also, I like how a storm shield gives +1W, but a black and silver storm shield gives 4++...

Ya kinda feels like the preview was tacked on last minute.

For Sword brethren, since lightning claws have functionally the same raw stats as a power weapon now, maybe they'll just have an option on the reverse of the card to take two power weapons for the lightning claw model and if you have two they have +1 attack and twin-linked?

Boosykes wrote:
While it is indisputable that space marines have too many units, I don't see why chaos should loose heresy era equipment.

It's not even just Heresy-era equipment they're losing. Those Daemon Engines were regular 40k units until GW suddenly decided they were "Horus Heresy Legends" units.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/watch-the-first-broadcast-games-of-new40k-live-from-the-kansas-city-open/

Lot's of reveals coming they say. 44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

 Trickstick wrote:
44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

Can we handle that much bloat???

Seriously: Gun. Heavy Gun. Sword. Heavy Sword. Pistol. And if you're a Knight you get a +1 on your Heavy Gun and Heavy Swords.

That's all the game needs!

Thank God Gabriel Seth can't join Terminator or Sternguard squads. Can you imagine what unintended balance consequences could've happened?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

Can we handle that much bloat???

Seriously: Gun. Heavy Gun. Sword. Heavy Sword. Pistol. And if you're a Knight you get a +1 on your Heavy Gun and Heavy Swords.

That's all the game needs!

Maybe they gave the deathwatch to the new guy in the office...

 Trickstick wrote:
Maybe they gave the deathwatch to the new guy in the office...

Oh boy... imagine what that Inquisitorial Retinue sheet's going to look like?

 Zeruel13 wrote:
For Sword brethren, since lightning claws have functionally the same raw stats as a power weapon now, maybe they'll just have an option on the reverse of the card to take two power weapons for the lightning claw model and if you have two they have +1 attack and twin-linked?

Yet the Deathwing terminator data sheet in same article has a stat line for lightning claws. It’s not like they didn’t have space on the sheet.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Gabriel Seth can't join Terminator or Sternguard squads. Can you imagine what unintended balance consequences could've happened?

He doesn't get to tag along to the free out of sequence deepstrike, benefit from the improved buff to oaths of Moment. He doesn't get to deepstrike period thinking about it, so he isn't preventing terminators from using a chunk of rules. I imagine sternguard will get some special ammo rule that isn't then magically applying to him in some weird way. Also no advance and charge terminators from his rule.

Also you'll note he cannot join specifically primaris squads, which is a nice fluff nod.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

Can we handle that much bloat???

Seriously: Gun. Heavy Gun. Sword. Heavy Sword. Pistol. And if you're a Knight you get a +1 on your Heavy Gun and Heavy Swords.

That's all the game needs!

Come on.... its better than 1000 flavours of ever so slightly different Boltgun....

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Gabriel Seth can't join Terminator or Sternguard squads. Can you imagine what unintended balance consequences could've happened?

What happens when you attach him to terminators and they deepstrike? Why would you want to attach him to Sternguard?`

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
44 datasheets, rules, enhancements, strategems...

Can we handle that much bloat???

Seriously: Gun. Heavy Gun. Sword. Heavy Sword. Pistol. And if you're a Knight you get a +1 on your Heavy Gun and Heavy Swords.

That's all the game needs!

Come on.... its better than 1000 flavours of ever so slightly different Boltgun....

I mean, i'd like to have my Shotguns, sniper rifles and underslung special weapons to function differently. Surely there's value in showing a flamethrower attachment works differently to a gravitational singularity attachment?

Never mind combi- attachments - the veterans' special weapons are also straight up gone too.

We've had the consolidation freak out a dozen times already, freaking out now on the last fething preview isn't going to add anything.

It seems a more prudent use of time to discuss the upcoming reveals of datalsates etc at the preview games and see what we think of the match ups?

This site seems to think deathguard are a waste of brainpower with their current rules, we'll see how that pans out vs daemons which people consider one of the top dogs.

Dudeface wrote:
We've had the consolidation freak out a dozen times already, freaking out now on the last fething preview isn't going to add anything.

It seems a more prudent use of time to discuss the upcoming reveals of datalsates etc at the preview games and see what we think of the match ups?

This site seems to think deathguard are a waste of brainpower with their current rules, we'll see how that pans out vs daemons which people consider one of the top dogs.

I think it's worth complaining about since the point of deathwatch was making highly specialized, customizable killteams, and they gutted nearly all of that. They basically killed the point of deathwatch as a faction and generalized them into a frigging generic combi-weapon statline.

It's one thing to be annoyed about the consilidation of certain weapons, but when you consolidate *everything* or in a stupid way like the GSC "Leader Pistols" like they couldn't have just figured out stats for a web pistol is worth complaining about.

Boosykes wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Whelp. Looks like my Deathwatch army is about to get invalidated HARD.


Also, I like how a storm shield gives +1W, but a black and silver storm shield gives 4++...

Ya kinda feels like the preview was tacked on last minute.

Umm what differnce when preview was made with rules that been done like year ago?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
We've had the consolidation freak out a dozen times already, freaking out now on the last fething preview isn't going to add anything.

It seems a more prudent use of time to discuss the upcoming reveals of datalsates etc at the preview games and see what we think of the match ups?

This site seems to think deathguard are a waste of brainpower with their current rules, we'll see how that pans out vs daemons which people consider one of the top dogs.

I think it's worth complaining about since the point of deathwatch was making highly specialized, customizable killteams, and they gutted nearly all of that. They basically killed the point of deathwatch as a faction and generalized them into a frigging generic combi-weapon statline.

It's one thing to be annoyed about the consilidation of certain weapons, but when you consolidate *everything* or in a stupid way like the GSC "Leader Pistols" like they couldn't have just figured out stats for a web pistol is worth complaining about.

Thing is boat sailed long time ago.

At least now you can model more freely so can make more varied looks. And no need to hunt down bits for 10 best combos. And hunt more when op combo changes.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Gabriel Seth can't join Terminator or Sternguard squads. Can you imagine what unintended balance consequences could've happened?

What happens when you attach him to terminators and they deepstrike? Why would you want to attach him to Sternguard?`

Why would you want to attach him to a Tactical Squad, which is listed?

Also he doesn't have the Deep Strike rule, so he doesn't get to. It's not rocket science.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Gabriel Seth can't join Terminator or Sternguard squads. Can you imagine what unintended balance consequences could've happened?

What happens when you attach him to terminators and they deepstrike? Why would you want to attach him to Sternguard?`

Why would you want to attach him to a Tactical Squad, which is listed?

Also he doesn't have the Deep Strike rule, so he doesn't get to. It's not rocket science.

The unit has deepstrike, he joins the unit, so he gains deepstrike.

Dudeface wrote:
We've had the consolidation freak out a dozen times already, freaking out now on the last fething preview isn't going to add anything.

It seems a more prudent use of time to discuss the upcoming reveals of datalsates etc at the preview games and see what we think of the match ups?

Ah yes.
WaIt AnD sEe for the rules. No complaining in advance.
wAiT aNd SeE for more rules. You can't tell anything from the rules we've got.
WaIt AnD sEe for preview games. It's too late to see the stuff you waited for.
wAiT aNd SeE for the codex, FAQ, mid-edition design shift etc.
WaIt AnD sEe for 11th edition!

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
We've had the consolidation freak out a dozen times already, freaking out now on the last fething preview isn't going to add anything.

It seems a more prudent use of time to discuss the upcoming reveals of datalsates etc at the preview games and see what we think of the match ups?

Ah yes.
WaIt AnD sEe for the rules. No complaining in advance.
wAiT aNd SeE for more rules. You can't tell anything from the rules we've got.
WaIt AnD sEe for preview games. It's too late to see the stuff you waited for.
wAiT aNd SeE for the codex, FAQ, mid-edition design shift etc.
WaIt AnD sEe for 11th edition!

BiTcH aNd MoAn at everything regardless!

Dudeface wrote:
The unit has deepstrike, he joins the unit, so he gains deepstrike.

No thanks. Ahriman gives +1 to wound - basically VotLW for free all game long in melee and shooting. Would people opt to put him in with 10 Rubrics or 10 Scarabs? The choice would be pretty clear and would not make for good internal balance.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Never mind combi- attachments - the veterans' special weapons are also straight up gone too.

Guess what, special weapons are not in the box (neither are missile launchers but we cannot expect consistency can we).

I wonder how long it is until we find out for real how much influence competitive players have on GW's rules output. The complete lack of consistency on what weapons actually are is going to be a nightmare for WYSIWYG, and is potentially going to interfere with the flow of the game.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Why would you want to attach him to a Tactical Squad, which is listed?

Because you like the special rules for tacs over assault and you filled the list with other stuff? I couldn't tell you atm.

Also he doesn't have the Deep Strike rule, so he doesn't get to. It's not rocket science.

Then someone attaches him and gets confused, because there's no rules supporting this interaction. So then GW needs to deal with all those edge cases. It doesn't seem very practical.