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I'm sooo sooo happy that Inceptors lost blast. They can finally be reasonable from both ends.


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But then the speeder abilities...oh dear god...

Whirlwinds- Holy feth! Artillery that disrupts/pins infantry units? What world is this?

Its also just surprisingly decent at killing infantry.


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Ugh. Transport restrictions still exist. They aren't as strict for some vehicles, but no 'tacitus' or 'phobos' (ie, no primaris) in rhinos/razorbacks and no non-primaris in Impulsors.

Why is "Leader" in the Faction ability row on the Captain in Gravis Armour datasheet, rather than in a Core row (like on the Primaris Captain)?

Wait... why the feth does a Primaris Captain need a shield to join Bladeguard or a plasma pistol to join a Hellblaster squad while a Primaris Lieutenant doesn't need either?
GW why are you like this, the added restriction isn't needed

I like that Outriders can come in more than squads of 3. Now we just need weapon options on the Sergeant.

Tac Squads with double special weapons and Dev Squads with quad Heavy Flamers. Weird day.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not gonna lie, I would rather that Shrike not have been able to join anyone than to be hucked into the Assault and Vanguard Veterans.

It is neat that the Phobos Captain can lead scouts though.

I have JP twin claw assault squad ready for him to join. You always wanted a RG bodyguard unit, IW you have it. Plus he shields them quite well.
So glad twin claw assault squads exist as Vanvets look terrible!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Resurrecting contemptors!

Actually, just "Contemptors". And Relic Terminators. But, hey, gotta get rid of that HH unit "bloat",right? Like Decimators, Blood Slaughterers, and Dreadclaws. Hey, look! Loyalists still have their drop pods!

Any CSM players interested in actualy playing with their models and having decent rules? Please, come visit the Horus Heresy.

Unless there's some general rule still to be released, Reivers have a close combat weapon listed on their profile that they can't actually obtain. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to swap the combat knife/pistol for a carbine/CCW, but they neglected to say you get the CCW as well. So if you have carbine-armed Reivers they don't have any close combat attacks, according to their own datasheet.

It was amusing when you could do that with a tanky Captain to make him some sort of immovable bulwark, but kinda stupid that you can now remove the close combat attacks from an entire unit. I think the designer's commentary we're supposedly getting is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting.

Looks like the phasing out of Firstborn has well and truly begun in earnest now. There are still some good units in there, but VV got well and truly done in and Assault Terminators seem weirdly bad at close combat compared to the new Tactical ones.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Boxnought lives!!!!!!!

It will be removed for the codex

Yeah, more evidence for the 'This is just half-assed get-you-by material' pile

Weren't they very explicit about there being datasheets for all of the Legends units etc. up front, but that they would not receive balancing or updates?

This is exactly that. Everything is getting a sheet right away, but when SM get a proper codex none of the "Legends" entries will receive updates.

Servo-Turrets are really interesting for area denial. Just a little pocket 'if you move here I might make things painful for you'.


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Voss wrote:
Whirlwinds- Holy feth! Artillery that disrupts/pins infantry units? What world is this?

Its also just surprisingly decent at killing infantry.

And the Hunter cranks FLY. Feels like it's going to be a must have. But there's so much of that it's hard to parse what I would want in an army. The Stalker is less sexy, but very cool.

Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Please, come visit the Horus Heresy.

Yea, but you know I'm a dirty dirty slut for new rules.






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 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

That could help clean up modeling and makes it easier to play. I like it.

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

As they should from the start.

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

Good. It was irritating tank to fire.

The Lancer gives Prisms a run for their money.

OMG YES Vindicators are the melee tank of my dreams.

Huh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's going to be a vanguard veteran kit to match the updated sternguard.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Please, come visit the Horus Heresy.

Yea, but you know I'm a dirty dirty slut for new rules.

Yes, yes, but I'm seeing less "new", and more just "less" if you play anything except Loyalist Scum. Oh,the new toys that we have in the 30th millennium.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not gonna lie, I would rather that Shrike not have been able to join anyone than to be hucked into the Assault and Vanguard Veterans.

It is neat that the Phobos Captain can lead scouts though.

I have JP twin claw assault squad ready for him to join. You always wanted a RG bodyguard unit, IW you have it. Plus he shields them quite well.
So glad twin claw assault squads exist as Vanvets look terrible!

I didn't want a "RG bodyguard unit".

I wanted a Shrike bodyguard unit.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

Good. It was irritating tank to fire.

It's still irritating, IMO, because they didn't go far enough. It still has a whole bunch of largely irrelevant weapons to resolve that could have all been rolled into the defensive array.

Voss wrote:
Huh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's going to be a vanguard veteran kit to match the updated sternguard.

Oh there definitely is. It got teased on the Raven Guard big box.

Slipspace wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

Good. It was irritating tank to fire.

It's still irritating, IMO, because they didn't go far enough. It still has a whole bunch of largely irrelevant weapons to resolve that could have all been rolled into the defensive array.

3 weapons plus one shot missile.

Basically only heavy bolter or lascannon that could be merged.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The Lancer gives Prisms a run for their money.

The predator annihilator seems shockingly bad. (Main gun is single shot, S14 is fine, as is reroll wounds, but... reroll damage roll of 1 is just bleh...*)
It stands out because the predator destructor is fantastic at its job, and the vindicator and whirlwind are good too.


*(and it might be a rules argument, since d6+1 damage weapons can't technically have a damage roll of 1. You can roll a 1, but the damage roll isn't a 1. Its 2. RAI is obvious, but people will pick nits)

Slipspace wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

Good. It was irritating tank to fire.

It's still irritating, IMO, because they didn't go far enough. It still has a whole bunch of largely irrelevant weapons to resolve that could have all been rolled into the defensive array.

Gatling/last-talon
Heavy bolter/lascannon
Defensive array

thats 3 weapons systems.. same as a land raider

The prize for most unexpected development has to be that Assault Squads can take Plasma Guns and Meltaguns. That hasn't been the case for 25 years, since 2nd edition.

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The Lancer gives Prisms a run for their money.

The predator annihilator seems shockingly bad. (Main gun is single shot, S14 is fine, as is reroll wounds, but... reroll damage roll of 1 is just bleh...*)
It stands out because the predator destructor is fantastic at its job, and the vindicator and whirlwind are good too.


*(and it might be a rules argument, since d6+1 damage weapons can't technically have a damage roll of 1. You can roll a 1, but the damage roll isn't a 1. Its 2. RAI is obvious, but people will pick nits)

Rules cover that. Rerolls done before modifiers are applied. Thus d6 is rerolled before +1

(incidentally if there's reroll failed and -1 modifier you can't reroll if fail is due to modifier)

It's funny how every review of the Tyranid PDF was like, "Uhhh, Tyranids are a control army now, very special niche" and then the Marines list drops and they have every one of those abilities but also sheer brutal damage and defense.

 Insectum7 wrote:
The prize for most unexpected development has to be that Assault Squads can take Plasma Guns and Meltaguns. That hasn't been the case for 25 years, since 2nd edition.

I... really?
Because that feels absolutely normal to me.

It may be a function of space woofs and blood angels having access to these units, rather than doing special snowflake versions of standard squads.
Same with double special weapon tactical squads.

Voss wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
The prize for most unexpected development has to be that Assault Squads can take Plasma Guns and Meltaguns. That hasn't been the case for 25 years, since 2nd edition.

I... really?
Because that feels absolutely normal to me.

It may be a function of space woofs and blood angels having access to these units, rather than doing special snowflake versions of standard squads.
Same with double special weapon tactical squads.

Ahh, fair enough! Yeah that makes sense.

Also funny: CTRL-F "re-roll" 28 matches

(7 for the bugs!)

CTRL-F "add 1" 37 matches

(5)

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well Repulsors various bolter/missile/frag things have been simplified into Repulsor Defensive Arrays.

Regular Repulsors variant gets A18 and Executioner A10 Str4 weapon.

Good. It was irritating tank to fire.

It's still irritating, IMO, because they didn't go far enough. It still has a whole bunch of largely irrelevant weapons to resolve that could have all been rolled into the defensive array.

Gatling/last-talon
Heavy bolter/lascannon
Defensive array

thats 3 weapons systems.. same as a land raider

Plus Ironhail Stubber and Icarus Rocket Pod. I know GW has some weird thing about these stupid and largely ineffective anti-air Primaris weapons, but that's another pair of weapons we could do without, IMO.