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ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Any opinions on whether Vashtorr has gotten any better than his mediocre introduction into 9th edition?

He looks like he still sucks, awesome.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Armor of Contempt is 1CP
Infernal Rites is 2CP

Yea that's stupid, but that Tzeentch resurrect is

 bullyboy wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Any opinions on whether Vashtorr has gotten any better than his mediocre introduction into 9th edition?

He looks like he still sucks, awesome.

A shame, such an awesome model.

I am just glad that Traitor Guard and Beastmen have been rolled into the army straight away, just have to check out their various options now.

With some minor additions to my HH Militia army, I can play CSM without adding any actual Marines which feels weird but in a good way.

Yeah changes to Traitor Guard are interesting. I wish I had snagged some more of the BSF models in the past.

Wait? So now I can haz a Chaos Army I was planning, where its just cultists, traitor guard and beastmen from BSF & Gallowfall?

Schweet, just got myself a new Army

Small victories but victories nonetheless.

Thousand sons seem really fun

Guess i'll run Haarken in my nightlords as the only jump pack option -.-

I like how they gave helbrutes special rules to make them more than just dreadnought equivalent

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Thousand sons seem really fun

They really, really do!

Guess i'll run Haarken in my nightlords as the only jump pack option -.-

He's finally decent at least.

I like how they gave helbrutes special rules to make them more than just dreadnought equivalent

For sure. Obliterators getting Indirect on Pact is pretty great, too.

Wait , are the thousand sons equivalents from the CSM just plain worse? You get to reroll charges and Dark Pacts for the CSM on and for the Tsons one you get free heroic and no Cabal Points? Why would they not put cabal points on vehicles? Its just gimping the army building like in 9th

I like the world eaters more than I thought I would.

Still rather one-note but you can pack in a lot of shooting if you want to, and there's lots of little touches like the Master of Executions (who went from zero to useful), and WE terminators get scarier as they die.

Didn't expect the jugger lords to be able to lead berserkers, either.

The Biologus Putrifier's ability is to give Lethal Hits to a unit that already has Lethal Hits on most of it's weapons..

And why can't any characters besides the ones in TDA join the Deathshroud given they are supposed to be bodyguards?

I can understand this with SM where you have dozens of choices but in this case most characters can only lead Plague Marines.

Biasn wrote:
Wait , are the thousand sons equivalents from the CSM just plain worse? You get to reroll charges and Dark Pacts for the CSM on and for the Tsons one you get free heroic and no Cabal Points? Why would they not put cabal points on vehicles? Its just gimping the army building like in 9th

Unsurprisingly, only sorcerers contribute sorcery points. That seemed very likely when they showed the Rubric sheet and there was a footnote that only the sorcerer contributed cabal points.

I guess every Lord and Sorcerer forgot about jumppacks but Haarkan, go feth yourself GW

The rolling in of beastmen and chaos guard is cool I like that

If the Commissar is a copy of the enforcer, I could see them being useful. Points permitting of course. Same with the Ogryn bodyguard, a 4+++ would really help those officers.

Biasn wrote:
Wait , are the thousand sons equivalents from the CSM just plain worse? You get to reroll charges and Dark Pacts for the CSM on and for the Tsons one you get free heroic and no Cabal Points? Why would they not put cabal points on vehicles? Its just gimping the army building like in 9th

Yeah, GW seems to really want TS to be mainly sorcerer units. However, i'm gonna print myself a trio of old school dreadnoughts to use now that theyre actually interesting (and our main/only source of cheap anti-tank that synergizes with the faction)

2x210 wrote:
I guess every Lord and Sorcerer forgot about jumppacks but Haarkan, go feth yourself GW

The only way out of that is new jump pack characters when the codex rolls around next spring.
GW hacked them out in the 9e codex, they weren't going to change their mind for the index version.

So Chaos Daemons get all of 1 enhancement per god.

Guess this is GW's way of telling you not to play mono-faction anymore.


Also, am I the only one who finds it a bit weird that CSMs have a stratagem to heal units and specifically resurrects Tzeentch units, but the literal followers of Tzeentch don't have the same?

If you play Deathguard I guess you better like Plague Marines

If GW has any sense whatsoever they'll rush out a Chaos Lord with a jump pack model and put them back in the Codex. They should have done it here.

Disgustingly Resilient feels very expensive at 2cp per unit.

 The Phazer wrote:
Disgustingly Resilient feels very expensive at 2cp per unit.

The fact DA can get same effect for 1cp makes it even more absurd.

 ikeulhu wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
Disgustingly Resilient feels very expensive at 2cp per unit.

The fact DA can get same effect for 1cp makes it even more absurd.

Was pointed out elsewhere the DG one has greater ubiquity, as DA can only use it when charged. So there is a distinct difference in overall utility.

Initial thoughts are that CSM look improved. Some khorne marines next to a helbrute will be really fun to charge onto an objective, raptors fear stacks which is always funny. Undivided marines can effectively get oath of moment if paired with a leader with the liber hereticus.

There are the obvious missteps with the horrible terminator/chosen armory issues, and it is fairly obvious how small the army is compared to loyalists.

But overall I love the faction identity.

Chaos is here...

*cracks neck*

Let's see what they fethed up...

1. LOL @ T5 Doobie. I know that's not new, but it's still hilarious that he's T5.
2. Haarken can use his spear in melee! YAY!
3. Umm... no re-rolling to wound on Huron's Lightning Claw. Ok then...
4. Why can you give Undivided to Daemon Princes? And given he can't hide from anything anymore, he's basically dead turn 1, right?
5. Chaos Lord that takes paired Accursed Weapons gets no benefit, Terminator Lord that takes paired Accursed Weapons gets Twin-Linked. Chaosistency!
6. No. Fething. Jump. Pack.
7. I guess the Mechadrendrites on the Lord Discordand don't mean anything anymore...
8. Nope. They don't. Warpsmith lost his extra attacks as well. Loyalists kept their Tech-Marine extra weapons though...
9. And he has to have a Plasma Pistol. x2
10. Oh good. The Exalted Champ is back to being that one choice with zero options. x3
11. So Legionaires get to be 4-9, but not Tactical Marines. Sure.
12. "Duplicates are not allowed". Oh buzz off GW.
13. Still with these pants-on-head stupid Terminator weapon restrictions. 3 fists, one Chainfist... make it stop!!!
14. Holy Crap! Chaos Chosen actually get to use the Power Fist that's on the sprue, and taking a second accursed weapon gives you twin-linked... unlike the Chaos Lord. Chaosistency!
15. Venom Crawler got worse at melee, but better at shooting.
16. Still no bloody Lightning Claws on the Raptor Champ...
17. Raptors can take twice as many special weapons as before now. Weirdly, my original Raptor unit with 3 Meltaguns and 1 Plasma Pistol is suddenly legal!
18. Heh. Oblits are 2 to 4 now. Guess they ain't getting a new kit...
19. And suddenly the Ectoplasma Cannons are more dangerous than the Hades Autocannons. Sure...
20. Hey look, Traitor Guardsmen and Beastmen as part of the general rules. That's nice.

The detachment rule just doubles down on the really strange faction rule, and... no Daemon Weapons. Just gone. Completely gone.

Thank God Spawn are capped at 2 models for a unit. Can you imagine the unintended interaction that could've happened otherwise?

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Spawn are capped at 2 models for a unit. Can you imagine the unintended interaction that could've happened otherwise?

Well...they went from a 5+ save to 4+ 5++ 5+++ heal D3 ( and +1M, +2A ). Allowing 15 of them would be a bit much, I think.

EDIT: Sorry - only TS have the 5++.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Thank God Spawn are capped at 2 models for a unit. Can you imagine the unintended interaction that could've happened otherwise?

Wait... what???

*checks datasheets*

Oh FFS GW... first we get NM/NR. Then we get sprue-based weapon restrictions. And now they really are doubling down on it with box-based limitations.

Oh yeah and Traitor Guardmen don't have the special weapon restriction any Marine does LMAO

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well...they went from a 5+ save to 4+ 5++ 5+++ heal D3 ( and +1M, +2A ). Allowing 15 of them would be a bit much, I think.

But that's not why they're limited to units of exactly 2. They're limited to units of exactly 2 because they are sold 2 to a box.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Oh yeah and Traitor Guardmen don't have the special weapon restriction any Marine does LMAO

Chaosistency!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And now they really are doubling down on it with box-based limitations.

If it was box based they could have done 2-4. I'm planning to max out on them already unless their points are stupid.