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 Insularum wrote:
A stupid question on Imperial Guard - a few units can take multiple leaders, and some of the leader units have multiple models. Each of these instances seems to have a rule stating that when the bodyguard unit dies off, the leader units attached separate, at their original starting strength. So if a precision weapon knocks out a few command squad models, do they immediately resurrect when the bodyguard dies?

And is it just me, or is the Exterminator actually not terrible? Seems like a better option than the LRBT if you plan on getting close up.

Starting strength is just the number of models the unit started the game with.

I don't have Militarum PDF open but using Sororitas as an example.

Astrid Theurga + Aegetha Dolan is a Leader unit with Starting Strength 2.
Imagifier is a Leader with SS 1.
Battle sisters are a unit with SS 10.

Both Astrid's unit and the imagifier join the battle sisters, and become 1 unit with starting strength 13.
Astrid is sniped out. Then all Battle Sisters die.

Aegetha Dolan and Imagifier both split to individual units, with Aegetha returning to Starting Strength 2, and the Imagifier Starting Strength 1.
No units are revived. Starting Strength is effectively a stat/characteristic.

 Insularum wrote:
A stupid question on Imperial Guard - a few units can take multiple leaders, and some of the leader units have multiple models. Each of these instances seems to have a rule stating that when the bodyguard unit dies off, the leader units attached separate, at their original starting strength. So if a precision weapon knocks out a few command squad models, do they immediately resurrect when the bodyguard dies?

That just means their unit reverts to its original Starting Strength, rather than the combined Starting Strength from being attached. So a Platoon Command Squad (Starting Strength of 5) joins a Jungle Fighters squad (Starting Strength of 10), making a combined Starting Strength of 15.

If Precision attacks kill 3 of the Command Squad, and regular shooting wipes out the Jungle Fighters, the Platoon Command Squad now reverts back to its original Starting Strength of 5, and with 3 models killed, is now Below Half-Strength.

Lack of squadrons isn't really a problem for the Russes. They can spam them to Armageddon and back.

The Hellhound though? That's rough.

Voss wrote:
The Hellhound though? That's rough.

Well they have 2+ saves, so that is decent compensation.

 Trickstick wrote:

Voss wrote:
The Hellhound though? That's rough.

Well they have 2+ saves, so that is decent compensation.

For squadrons? I'm... not seeing the relationship.
Every Russ turret has its own datacard now. The hellhound variants all have to share.

Voss wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Voss wrote:
The Hellhound though? That's rough.

Well they have 2+ saves, so that is decent compensation.

For squadrons? I'm... not seeing the relationship.
Every Russ turret has its own datacard now. The hellhound variants all have to share.

2+ save hellhounds is a massive buff. Plus, there may be FW cards for them too I guess.

Hmm... well... that can't be right.

Servitors in the Guard and AdMech Indices are all BS6+. WTF?

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Or have I interpreted MD incorrectly?

MD is 1/phase/unit, so you should only substitute the damage and pray for the Emperor for good rolls otherwise.

Ah, right. Clause at the top. Thanks -- I had recalled the phase limit, but didn't see it in the main block and went wandering too far.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hydra Autocannon fires a mighty... four shots.

Hmm...

It gets to re-roll hits with them per the "Flak Battery" rule.

And it re-rolls wounds per twin-linked.

 bullyboy wrote:
Figured people would be more pissed frat sisters can only be taken in squads of 10 now

It's annoying, for sure, but personally I'm more annoyed that Retributios are fixed at 5. The sixth Sisters Ablatia that each of my squads have will need to find another way to martyr themselves now.

I suppose higher starting unit size for regualr Sisters keeps their bonuses for being under half strength in check?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why do the Rogue Trader voidsmen, of all units, have a variable unit size?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... well... that can't be right.

Servitors in the Guard and AdMech Indices are all BS6+. WTF?

+1 heavy, +1 if an enginseer is with them

 Trickstick wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... well... that can't be right.

Servitors in the Guard and AdMech Indices are all BS6+. WTF?

+1 heavy, +1 if an enginseer is with them

Unless one of those affects BS directly, they'd still hit on a 5+.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard from a reliable source on 4chan that 11th will be playtested.

I think the chance of any 40k edition ever being playtested is zero

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... well... that can't be right.

Servitors in the Guard and AdMech Indices are all BS6+. WTF?

+1 heavy, +1 if an enginseer is with them

Unless one of those affects BS directly, they'd still hit on a 5+.

Enginseer does.

Sad that i cant even run an execution force of all 4 assassins, oh well.

im glad the grenade launchers on the paragon warsuits got a nice buff, still think they should have been cyclone missile launchers though.

Celestine being able to join seraphim/zephyrim and revive them is nice.

Sad that celestians were straight up deleted but understandable, they never really had a role.

I thought Marine servitors had good BS now so with all the buffs they hit on 3+ or 2+ or something. Does guard have worse servitors?

 ph34r wrote:
I thought Marine servitors had good BS now so with all the buffs they hit on 3+ or 2+ or something. Does guard have worse servitors?

6+ base ws/bs, but +1 each with an enginseer.

Funnily enough, you can add the servitors to the enginseer, and it doesnt count as using leader. So you can then stick the enginseer in a squad.

Enginseers get lone operative within 3" of a vehicle though, so that is probably better.

Yay for the Imperial Knight cards! Looking forward to a game of 10th edition mini-40K...

 warmaster21 wrote:
Sad that i cant even run an execution force of all 4 assassins, oh well.

It's extra dumb too because it could have been easily allowed simply by giving the assassins a special rule that lets them use up a Retinue or Character agents slot, since then at 2k or more you could field all 4.

 ph34r wrote:
I thought Marine servitors had good BS now so with all the buffs they hit on 3+ or 2+ or something. Does guard have worse servitors?

In general lorewise quite probably, depending on the regiment and Ad Mech support, but it does appear to be usual Marine bias

Hmm, I have seen couple of errors with datasheets, but not much, which makes me glad. The Astra militarum leman russ exterminator has different weapon profile in the actual datasheet and the armory card in the end of the pdf.
The other must be a typo, taurox prime frag missile has s8.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
I thought Marine servitors had good BS now so with all the buffs they hit on 3+ or 2+ or something. Does guard have worse servitors?

In general lorewise quite probably, depending on the regiment and Ad Mech support, but it does appear to be usual Marine bias

One of the things GW seems to be trying hard to do is make options viable. For instance the grenade launcher suddenly becoming decent, so it can complete with a plasma gun etc. So I assume that applies to units as a whole. Servitors in a Marine army have to compete with Marine options, where in a guard or admech army they have to compete with guard / admech options.

Huh, am I reading this wrong or can Stormtroopers finally mount up in Chimera again after almost a decade of forgetting how?

Chimera: 12 Astra Militarum Infantry models

Taurox: 12 Astra Militarum Infantry models

Taurox Prime: 12 Militarum Tempestus Infantry or Astra Militarum Infantry Character models

Note the Taurox Prime specifically calls out Astra MIlitarum Infantry Characters, probably so you can throw in a Commissar or the like.

Tempestus Scions have: Astra Militarum Faction Keyword, Infantry, and Militarum Tempestus keywords. The other infantry I do not see any "Astra Militarum" keyword in their main blurb, just Faction Keyword.

If so, even though its probably suboptimal what with Deep Strike, it is neat to finally let them ride again.

Also, did Taurox always have 12 transport capacity? Could have sworn it was 10, though I skipped the 9th dex what with it dropping 6 months before the new edition.

 kurhanik wrote:

Also, did Taurox always have 12 transport capacity? Could have sworn it was 10, though I skipped the 9th dex what with it dropping 6 months before the new edition.

Many transports have had their capacity increased in order to include an attached character or two.

 kurhanik wrote:
Huh, am I reading this wrong or can Stormtroopers finally mount up in Chimera again after almost a decade of forgetting how?

Chimera: 12 Astra Militarum Infantry models

Taurox: 12 Astra Militarum Infantry models

Taurox Prime: 12 Militarum Tempestus Infantry or Astra Militarum Infantry Character models

Note the Taurox Prime specifically calls out Astra MIlitarum Infantry Characters, probably so you can throw in a Commissar or the like.

Tempestus Scions have: Astra Militarum Faction Keyword, Infantry, and Militarum Tempestus keywords. The other infantry I do not see any "Astra Militarum" keyword in their main blurb, just Faction Keyword.

If so, even though its probably suboptimal what with Deep Strike, it is neat to finally let them ride again.

Also, did Taurox always have 12 transport capacity? Could have sworn it was 10, though I skipped the 9th dex what with it dropping 6 months before the new edition.

your right on both counts. stormtroopers can now use chimeras, and the taurox (like many transports across all factions) has had its transport capacity increased so that you can stick a squad+ attached characters into it.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard from a reliable source on 4chan that 11th will be playtested.

I think the chance of any 40k edition ever being playtested is zero

Only if you ignore the playtesters who played it, but sure.

Playing doesn't help if gw ignores them. For example they had zero impact on points that were locked when given to them.

Basically just proof readers.

Voss wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard from a reliable source on 4chan that 11th will be playtested.

I think the chance of any 40k edition ever being playtested is zero

Only if you ignore the playtesters who played it, but sure.

From all that we've generally heard GW doesn't use external playtesters in the best way. Often providing them only select stats and pre-made armies for them to use. I think they also test too late in the process which provides very little time for GW to address and review and adjust based on feedback because we've heard how major faults or issues that had to be fixed with an errata, were often spotted by some testers.

GW works with a lot of compartmentalised secrecy and whilst that has its benefits there are also downsides to that system too. One of them being that external independent testing isn't as reliable nor indepth as it could be.

Voss wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard from a reliable source on 4chan that 11th will be playtested.

I think the chance of any 40k edition ever being playtested is zero

Only if you ignore the playtesters who played it, but sure.

It was playtested, but there's no way they covered everything. Like they created a conceptual framework of how they're going to design the game, tried it with a few factions, and started writing. No one sat there and said 'ok now let's play Deathwatch against all 20+ other factions, but this time I'll use these enhancements on different characters and these strats'.

There's an impossible number of permutations and no one played games to make sure all the enhancements and strats were ok. It just isn't feasible and people seem to think that's the only way to do it.

 Overread wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I heard from a reliable source on 4chan that 11th will be playtested.

I think the chance of any 40k edition ever being playtested is zero

Only if you ignore the playtesters who played it, but sure.

From all that we've generally heard GW doesn't use external playtesters in the best way. Often providing them only select stats and pre-made armies for them to use. I think they also test too late in the process which provides very little time for GW to address and review and adjust based on feedback because we've heard how major faults or issues that had to be fixed with an errata, were often spotted by some testers.

GW works with a lot of compartmentalised secrecy and whilst that has its benefits there are also downsides to that system too. One of them being that external independent testing isn't as reliable nor indepth as it could be.

I don't need mansplaining of how playtesting works just because I'm tired of the 'No playtesting, LOL!' memes.