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Talos are squads of 1-2 now? Bah! I'm just getting around to painting up converted Pain-Bros 7 through 9!

And Wych weapons aren't even a thing anymore? 'Stealer Acolytes got their mining weapon consolidated into one profile, but Wyches lost gladiator weapons entirely?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The more comments I read, the more I think that Guard avoided a lot of the nonsense going on...

The more I read, the more I just want to do my own version of these datasheets to restore the missing pieces (proper Combi-Weapons, Tyranid tail weaponry, Combat Squads, Autarch weapon options, etc.).

Definitely. I just keep eyeing the OPR army lists and wondering if that would be easier.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

My only real complaint is that the doomstalker still looks terrible. Other than that (and the typo on the psychomancer where you can obviously tell what it's supposed to do I guess) the rules look good.

I quite like the doomstalker. Its gun isn't as good as the doomsday ark, but I expect points to make the difference there.
In faction, its a quite solid AT/anti-heavy infantry gun. Park it somewhere to benefit from [heavy] and its throwing a decent burst of fire, and defensively a 4++ is nothing to sneeze at.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The Court of the Archon requires one of each monster, now? But I want my four snake-dudes, damnit!

Just like the IG Attaches.

 Daba wrote:




the Autarch got weirdly limited in that you can't use all the options you can build from the current kit in combination, and to use some of the bits you get in the new kit you must kitbash it with the older winged Autarch kit.

Wouldn't surprise me if they are planning on putting both models in the same box.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Daba wrote:




the Autarch got weirdly limited in that you can't use all the options you can build from the current kit in combination, and to use some of the bits you get in the new kit you must kitbash it with the older winged Autarch kit.

Wouldn't surprise me if they are planning on putting both models in the same box.

That would make me wonder why they locked the fusion pistol, mandiblaster, and banshee sword together. That only makes sense if they want to force people to buy the winged model and build it like the picture.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Hamonculi cannot join Grotesques because... reasons.

Cutting 50% more wounds with a boosted FNP could be a problem that makes Wracks unpalatable, because all the Haemonculus selections are stuck in Grot units.

then make the buff worse and let the haemonculi join their creations ffs


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The more comments I read, the more I think that Guard avoided a lot of the nonsense going on...

The more I read, the more I just want to do my own version of these datasheets to restore the missing pieces (proper Combi-Weapons, Tyranid tail weaponry, Combat Squads, Autarch weapon options, etc.).

Definitely. I just keep eyeing the OPR army lists and wondering if that would be easier.

OPR now has more options than actual 40k lol

 Asmodai wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Hands up if you were honestly expecting GW not to make a huge mess of releasing a new edition.

Kinda also depend swhat you mean by a huge mess. So far they've done better than with 8th imo.

Better than 2nd and 3rd too, the other reset editions.

Well, 2nd wasn't that much of a reset, as most of the rules were published during 1st (Battle Manual). I played 2nd, but I always disliked this close combat mechanism.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
then make the buff worse and let the haemonculi join their creations ffs

Both of those units sit on a 5+++ already. What rule do you think would be appropriate where joining wracks would be an equivalent choice to joining grots and the cost of the haemonculus is appropriate for either occasion?

I'm sure you could find one, but this is also index hammer and we don't have a codex with a focus for Coven style detachments.

Voss wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

My only real complaint is that the doomstalker still looks terrible. Other than that (and the typo on the psychomancer where you can obviously tell what it's supposed to do I guess) the rules look good.

I quite like the doomstalker. Its gun isn't as good as the doomsday ark, but I expect points to make the difference there.
In faction, its a quite solid AT/anti-heavy infantry gun. Park it somewhere to benefit from [heavy] and its throwing a decent burst of fire, and defensively a 4++ is nothing to sneeze at.

Oh, I'm an idiot. I missed that the blaster was heavy, I thought it just hit on 4's. Yeah that's probably a fine unit.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
then make the buff worse and let the haemonculi join their creations ffs

The havoc of a grotesque mob on a tear is best observed from a distance.

...

I still miss Haemonculi getting to use Hexrifles.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

My only real complaint is that the doomstalker still looks terrible. Other than that (and the typo on the psychomancer where you can obviously tell what it's supposed to do I guess) the rules look good.

I quite like the doomstalker. Its gun isn't as good as the doomsday ark, but I expect points to make the difference there.
In faction, its a quite solid AT/anti-heavy infantry gun. Park it somewhere to benefit from [heavy] and its throwing a decent burst of fire, and defensively a 4++ is nothing to sneeze at.

Oh, I'm an idiot. I missed that the blaster was heavy, I thought it just hit on 4's. Yeah that's probably a fine unit.

\shrug
There's a lot to digest all at once. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that something called a 'blaster' was [heavy]

To be honest, I'm mostly just pleased because I like the walker aesthetic far more than the flying boats (and the evils of flight stands). I checked the stats of that specific unit out early on purpose because I wanted it to be good.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Has there been any news on when IA data sheets will be released?

Soon™

I have a baseless hunch that they'll spread it over a whole week between the Leviathan release and the start of codex previews, to keep the hype train going. Easily possible by doing SM-Chaos-Imperium-Xenos for four days or Heresy-SM-Chaos-Imperium-Xenos for a full week.

Voss wrote:
To be honest, I'm mostly just pleased because I like the walker aesthetic far more than the flying boats (and the evils of flight stands). I checked the stats of that specific unit out early on purpose because I wanted it to be good.

I'm a huge fan of the walkers too. I'll probably put them in my first list... shame I won't be able to put them with a technomancer to make them hit on 2's because I REALLY want to run three of the lychguard deathstar, lol.

Shieldguard with a lord and a technomancer is a 3+/4++/5+++ -1 to wound unit. Surely that can survive a round of shooting, right?

Any definitive word yet on whether wargear/upgrades cost points or will be free? I'm starting to read some articles that hint that upgrades will be free.

Ex. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-10th-edition-necrons-index/

"The most important of these are Resurrection Orbs, the Reanimator and the Protocol of the Undying Legions stratagem. The first option (now free on everyone who can take them, so uh, do that)"

 Gnarlly wrote:
Any definitive word yet on whether wargear/upgrades cost points or will be free? I'm starting to read some articles that hint that upgrades will be free.

Ex. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-10th-edition-necrons-index/

"The most important of these are Resurrection Orbs, the Reanimator and the Protocol of the Undying Legions stratagem. The first option (now free on everyone who can take them, so uh, do that)"

We'll know tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to it though. It's probably going to be madness in here.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Voss wrote:
To be honest, I'm mostly just pleased because I like the walker aesthetic far more than the flying boats (and the evils of flight stands). I checked the stats of that specific unit out early on purpose because I wanted it to be good.

I'm a huge fan of the walkers too. I'll probably put them in my first list... shame I won't be able to put them with a technomancer to make them hit on 2's because I REALLY want to run three of the lychguard deathstar, lol.

Shieldguard with a lord and a technomancer is a 3+/4++/5+++ -1 to wound unit. Surely that can survive a round of shooting, right?

Depends on if the unit shooting them has anti-infantry 4+ and devastating wounds...

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
then make the buff worse and let the haemonculi join their creations ffs

Both of those units sit on a 5+++ already. What rule do you think would be appropriate where joining wracks would be an equivalent choice to joining grots and the cost of the haemonculus is appropriate for either occasion?

I'm sure you could find one, but this is also index hammer and we don't have a codex with a focus for Coven style detachments.

something else than a FnP ?

+1 Toughness
+1 AP
+1 Move
+1 anything really


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shakalooloo wrote:


I still miss Haemonculi getting to use Hexrifles.

the state of drukhari in 9th made me not play them, heavily considering selling them off at this point sadly, its just such a flavorless army now

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:
Any definitive word yet on whether wargear/upgrades cost points or will be free? I'm starting to read some articles that hint that upgrades will be free.

Ex. https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-10th-edition-necrons-index/

"The most important of these are Resurrection Orbs, the Reanimator and the Protocol of the Undying Legions stratagem. The first option (now free on everyone who can take them, so uh, do that)"

We'll know tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to it though. It's probably going to be madness in here.

Yeah, if every "option" is free, it's just going to be more fuel for this dumpster fire.

 Rihgu wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Voss wrote:
To be honest, I'm mostly just pleased because I like the walker aesthetic far more than the flying boats (and the evils of flight stands). I checked the stats of that specific unit out early on purpose because I wanted it to be good.

I'm a huge fan of the walkers too. I'll probably put them in my first list... shame I won't be able to put them with a technomancer to make them hit on 2's because I REALLY want to run three of the lychguard deathstar, lol.

Shieldguard with a lord and a technomancer is a 3+/4++/5+++ -1 to wound unit. Surely that can survive a round of shooting, right?

Depends on if the unit shooting them has anti-infantry 4+ and devastating wounds...

They could actually survive the old Hellfire issue that got patched so they're quite durable.

I'm perplexed why a Sybarite, the shooty squad leader, can equip an improved Sybarite weapon for melee, but a Hekatrix and an Acothyst, the melee squad leaders, haven't got any options.

In the rules, since they've got plenty on the sprues. In fact, the Acothyst has six different CCW upgrades, but none of them now appear in the rules

 SarisKhan wrote:
I'm perplexed why a Sybarite, the shooty squad leader, can equip an improved Sybarite weapon for melee, but a Hekatrix and an Acothyst, the melee squad leaders, haven't got any options.

In the rules, since they've got plenty on the sprues. In fact, the Acothyst has six different CCW upgrades, but none of them now appear in the rules

Because they ran out of room on the Wyches' datacard to include rules for all of the Hekatrix and wych weapon options, so they decided to nerf/consolidate all of the wych weapons into one profile?

 Gnarlly wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I'm perplexed why a Sybarite, the shooty squad leader, can equip an improved Sybarite weapon for melee, but a Hekatrix and an Acothyst, the melee squad leaders, haven't got any options.

In the rules, since they've got plenty on the sprues. In fact, the Acothyst has six different CCW upgrades, but none of them now appear in the rules

Because they ran out of room on the Wyches' datacard to include rules for all of the Hekatrix and wych weapon options, so they decided to nerf/consolidate all of the wych weapons into one profile?

You're being sarcastic, right? There's so much blank space on the Wych datasheet it's not funny.

GW has had an on again/off again relationship with wych weapons for multiple editions.

Its not a surprise they'd get rid of them here.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I'm perplexed why a Sybarite, the shooty squad leader, can equip an improved Sybarite weapon for melee, but a Hekatrix and an Acothyst, the melee squad leaders, haven't got any options.

In the rules, since they've got plenty on the sprues. In fact, the Acothyst has six different CCW upgrades, but none of them now appear in the rules

Because they ran out of room on the Wyches' datacard to include rules for all of the Hekatrix and wych weapon options, so they decided to nerf/consolidate all of the wych weapons into one profile?

You're being sarcastic, right? There's so much blank space on the Wych datasheet it's not funny.

The Black Adder wrote:

Voss wrote:
Well, Necrons largely look good. They do lack dedicated anti-tank, barring the few obvious exceptions (even the gauss cannons and heavy gauss cannons are terrible at it- no idea what happened to heavy gauss).

Instead they're very reliant on lethal hits and devastating wounds, and simple weight of fire.

But in general, they got some impressive improvements and fixes. I can even see a reason to take flayed ones and not feel really stupid about it.

Rez orbs are scary. They give you RP in the enemy control phase in addition to your own. Reanimators project a 12" aura of +d3 wounds to every RP roll. So any units with rez orbs heal 4d3 wounds by the time the enemy is fighting or shooting you again.

And you can have a lot of rez orbs, and the command barge orb can be targeted at a unit in 6", so it even affects infantry or mounted units that can't have a lord or overlord.

Stick warriors next to a ghost ark and they become even more bonkers, getting another activation.

Sovereign coronal is the obvious pick for your first enhancement in any list you don't intend to go really character heavy. It buffs strats and gives +1 to hit in a 6" radius. I like the item but it's a shame it feels like an obvious pick.

Points depending, I think almost everything is playable. It's a shame the nightbringer doesn't cause any battleshock manipulation though.

The coronal should then be pretty expensive point wise.

I think the overall problem with the new edition is that it is very inconsistent. Some things very oversimplified and some things given a lot of detail for no reason. Seems like each faction was written by a different person, eg rhino firing hatch rules being varied across several factions.

I'm still excited to play a few games, as the guard and genestealer cult rules seem fun. But I understand some people are disappointed.

Well one thing that surprised me was that Heat Lance got buffed, a lot. Str 14.

Laughing Man wrote:

 Matthew Flamen wrote:
This may be a silly question as I have only followed the news sparely, but are the core rules that they released enough to understand how this datasheets work or are there additional rules in the core book that are relevant and may make something work differently in practice?

We have the full rules for 10th edition. The only thing we're missing are points and scenarios.

And glossary which clarifies some things.

GW has been very stingy with what gets to be "battleline" across the board, way less than I would have thought, many choices that used to be Troops options just don't have them anymore.

Other wierdness:

-Autarchs, which fluff-wise are super-aspect warriors that have done the rounds in multiple aspect disciplines, can't join aspect warrior squads - only Guardian squads. Likewise Archons can't join Incubi, despite the histrical fluff being that Incubi are hired by Archons as bodyguards.

-Tempestus Scions and Harlequin troops are both conditional battleline options with the inclusion of specific character units as warlords - but if you take them as battleline they are still only OC1. Neither unit comes in particularly large quantities, so if you're playing a pure Tempestus/Harlequin list you're playing on hard mode in terms of your ability to cap objectives. This is despite these guys being "elite" units who should theoretically be just as capable of holding objectives as their less elite brethren with native battleline.

-Because of the way attachments in the Guard list work, you can take a small unit of something like 5 Scions, attach a 5 model command squad, a commissar, 3 regimental advisors, and a ogryn bodyguard to make a 15 model unit, of which 2/3rds of the models in the unit are not from the actual "base" unit. Interestingly, this also allows certain models to bypass restrictions about what units things can and can't attach to - commissars can't attach to command squads, but they can attach to an infantry squad that a command squad is also attached to.

-Deff Dreds, Sagitaurs, Voidweavers, War Walkers, Vypers, Ork Buggies, etc. are all unit size of 1 model now, Achilles Ridgerunners, Cronos and Talos are 1-2 models, Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are units of 2 models (RIP anyone that had purchased max allowance of either), a number of other units have also seen unit sizes cut (Boyz and Grots top out at 20 models instead of 30, Skitarii in units of 10 rather than 20), while other units seemingly arbitrarily stayed the same (Sentinels of both varieties for example can be fielded in units of 1-3 models, Killa Kans in units of up to 6) or increased (Guard squads can be fielded in counts of up to 20 models).

-GW can't keep its formatting consistent, compare the Plague Marine options to the Blight Lord options. Plague Marines have like 6+ separate clauses about who can swap something out for what. Blightlord terminators basically have one clause with like 6 bullet points under it as to who can swap something out for what. Blightlords good, Plague Marines bad.

-Some units have had their weapon profiles consolidated for simplicity (Intercessors going from multiple different types of bolter down to just 1, for example), others retained the variety (Necron warriors still have their choice of 2 different gauss weapons). The criteria around which things were consolidated or left distinct seems random and arbitrary. Some are restricted to contents of the kit, others are not.

-Despite the various limitationson unit sizes and how many copies of a datasheet you can bring, I see no cap on flyers anymore. With the total removal of any sort of force org or minimum unit taxes, etc. You can conceivably field a 100% flyer only army now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I'll bet that the variable sizes are accurate, but they're taking the Power Level model of forcing you to round up to the higher cost.

Which would mean that all their talk of "Power Level is dead, points is the future!" was a load of nonsense.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". GW wanted power level, the community wanted points. So GW made points into power level (or power level into points, depending on your point of view). Some big brain folks will realize the bait and switch, many won't.