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2023/06/18 20:34:29
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
The casual player is one that would happily take part in a 'last stand' type mission, where they are hopelessly outnumbered with no chance of victory, and the fun comes from seeing how well they do before being wiped out. The old Ork's Drift routine.
2023/06/18 20:34:55
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
kodos wrote: and yet the tournament player does not care of his army is still playable, he just buys a new one or proxy the units he needs to be competitve
while the casual player has fun losing all his games because he wants to keep the units he like with the army he build up over years
don't really see how this benefits the casual player unless by accident they have now the strong army (and than they won't have fun anyway because they get called out for playing it)
Because as you said the casual player will have fun.
Why have we made winning the ultimate goal?
Because facing opponents who intentionally plays less than their ability is boring af, and is much closer to playtime with your GI joes than actually doing a tabletop wargame.
If the army they have are so-so in composition and has lots of crap units, I dont care, but I expect the guy to give me a challenge and play as well as he can.
If you think 40K is a wargame, you are deeply mistaken.
It is a miniatures game, the rules exist to sell wonderful miniatures.
Most wargames don't use miniatures, but rather tokens, or wooden cubes.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
2023/06/18 20:38:34
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Shakalooloo wrote: The casual player is one that would happily take part in a 'last stand' type mission, where they are hopelessly outnumbered with no chance of victory, and the fun comes from seeing how well they do before being wiped out. The old Ork's Drift routine.
Thing is, you can do these types of game just as well if the 'base' version of the game is balanced (as far as it can be) or at least aims at being balanced. It's possible to play un-balanced scenarios with roughly balanced games, but the reverse is not true. And of course there are all sorts of cases, like specific missions, where one side has a comparative advantage that is not reflected in their e.g. points costs, but then again that's a specific example while we're mostly speaking averages here.
2023/06/18 20:44:36
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
I'd also like to say this-if the game isn't trying to be balanced, where is the customization? I'd be a LOT more forgiving of what's going on right now if the datasheets were more like 30k's, where HQs have a list of options the entire page long and units in general can be customized to hell and back.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2023/06/18 20:47:34
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Prometheum5 wrote: Warhammer 40K players should really try out some other wargames and get some perspective on all the fun and engaging ways people can get together to play with their toy soldiers that don't rely on mathematically beating the piss out of each other.
but there is no other game that has that level of imbalance so they won't have any fun playing that
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/06/18 21:00:15
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Prometheum5 wrote: Warhammer 40K players should really try out some other wargames and get some perspective on all the fun and engaging ways people can get together to play with their toy soldiers that don't rely on mathematically beating the piss out of each other.
but there is no other game that has that level of imbalance so they won't have any fun playing that
Anyone that's good at a game understands that relative balance is what make competitive play interesting. It's why people have played chess for hundres of years.
It makes sense that that idea would be outside of your experiences, though.
2023/06/18 21:03:43
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
ERJAK wrote: It makes sense that that idea would be outside of your experiences, though.
so you agree with stonehorse here that 40k is played because it is so bad as this is the only way competitive players can take the challenge and casual players can have fun?
but yes I would say that the competitive 40k players won't have much fun with chess as there are a lot of things missing from chess you get with 40k, like chasing the meta or find broken lists
and people who enjoy those things will call 40k the best game ever while everything that is better balanced is called boring and not deep enough
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/06/18 21:29:26
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
bullyboy wrote: Simply fix Fate Dice as one per unit per phase.
There's several ways GW could FAQ Fate dice to tone it down.
Once per phase could work, but I honestly feel that wouldn't fix the main issue if using 6s (whether from the initial rolls or subbed from a Farseer) to trigger DevWounds.
I think a better way is to treat Fate Dice as a Modified dice. That way they can't be used to trigger DevWounds, Sustained hits or Lethal hits.
You'd still be able to use Fate Dice for crucial rolls as intended, but would take away the ability to "game" those abilities that weren't intended to be guarantees.
You could still use Fafe Dice for 6s on damage rolls when the NATURAL 6s to wound give DevWounds, but would still need luck to get that first 6
Galef wrote: there's several ways GW could FAQ Fate dice to tone it down.
Once per phase could work, but I honestly feel that wouldn't fix the main issue if using 6s (whether from the initial rolls or subbed from a Farseer) to trigger DevWounds.
I think a better way is to treat Fate Dice as a Modified dice. That way they can't be used to trigger DevWounds, Sustained hits or Lethal hits.
You'd still be able to use Fate Dice for crucial rolls as intended, but would take away the ability to "game" those abilities that weren't intended to be guarantees.
You could still use Fafe Dice for 6s on damage rolls when the NATURAL 6s to wound give DevWounds, but would still need luck to get that first 6
-
GW could (and probably should) do both.
They could then also change the reroll of a hit and wound to one or the other.
And then review the points. There's an army called... Ad Mech, that I think provide a fair baseline.
Also nerf Marines.
2023/06/18 21:39:37
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
In the past 15 years I have played more games of Turnip28 than I have 40k. Same for Frostgrave, Forbidden Psalm, This is Not a Test, One Page Rules, Monsterpocalyse, Dystopian Wars and a slew of others I'm forgetting.
Please try to tell me again that the problem is simply that I'm not casual enough to enjoy this new version of 40k where tourney grinders find a 75 mortal wound combo on their first pass of the datacards and some people are stuck with models worth half their points cost because they glued the wrong bits on
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/18 21:47:55
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2023/06/18 21:46:14
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
So you agree with stonehorse here that 40k is played because it is so bad as this is the only way competitive players can take the challenge and casual players can have fun?
What are you even on about at this point?
Do you honestly think 40k is only played because people find it to be a bad system? Nothing to do with the extensive lore, the settings the wonderful miniatures, etc?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: In the past 15 years I have played more games of Turnip28 than I have 40k. Same for Frostgrave, Forbidden Psalm, This is Not a Test, One Page Rules, Monsterpocalyse, Dystopian Wars and a slew of others I'm forgetting.
Please try to tell me again that I'm not casual enough to enjoy this new version of 40k where tourney grinders find a 75 mortal wound combo on their first pass of the datacards and some people are stuck with models worth half their points cost because they glued the wrong bits on
No such thing as gluing on the wrong bits, as soon as someone buys the model, they can do with it as they like. Some people prefer to build their models for what they think looks best, and for variety. It is an easier life than building models to follow an ever changing meta. Editions/rules come and go, but models stay together, unless the glue is a bit shoddy and the model isn't looked after properly.
If you think 40K is a wargame, you are deeply mistaken.
It is a miniatures game, the rules exist to sell wonderful miniatures.
Most wargames don't use miniatures, but rather tokens, or wooden cubes.
40K is the very definition of a tabletop minitature wargame. Take the wargaming part out and see what happens.
It is not a wargame, tabletop miniatures game, most certainly. But far from a wargame. The two miniature games that GW have made that came close to being what you describe are Warmaster and Epic 40,000... both of which were unpopular with GW's fan base.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/06/18 21:53:10
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
2023/06/18 21:57:25
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
JNAProductions wrote: I'd also like to say this-if the game isn't trying to be balanced, where is the customization? I'd be a LOT more forgiving of what's going on right now if the datasheets were more like 30k's, where HQs have a list of options the entire page long and units in general can be customized to hell and back.
No, no, I have it on good authority that 40k players don't want customisation. It just confuses them. Same with basic maths. And really any choice at all.
Did you know that 40k players are so inept that they would frequently place characters with unapproved units?
Thus, our benevolent overlords at GW have spared us from choices like wargear, psychic powers, squad sizes, wargear, character/unit pairings etc. so that we can't make incorrect decisions.
So just get out your wallet and start showing your appreciation.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2023/06/18 21:58:33
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
So you agree with stonehorse here that 40k is played because it is so bad as this is the only way competitive players can take the challenge and casual players can have fun?
What are you even on about at this point?
Do you honestly think 40k is only played because people find it to be a bad system? Nothing to do with the extensive lore, the settings the wonderful miniatures, etc?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: In the past 15 years I have played more games of Turnip28 than I have 40k. Same for Frostgrave, Forbidden Psalm, This is Not a Test, One Page Rules, Monsterpocalyse, Dystopian Wars and a slew of others I'm forgetting.
Please try to tell me again that I'm not casual enough to enjoy this new version of 40k where tourney grinders find a 75 mortal wound combo on their first pass of the datacards and some people are stuck with models worth half their points cost because they glued the wrong bits on
No such thing as gluing on the wrong bits, as soon as someone buys the model, they can do with it as they like. Some people prefer to build their models for what they think looks best, and for variety. It is an easier life than building models to follow an ever changing meta. Editions/rules come and go, but models stay together, unless the glue is a bit shoddy and the model isn't looked after properly.
If you think 40K is a wargame, you are deeply mistaken.
It is a miniatures game, the rules exist to sell wonderful miniatures.
Most wargames don't use miniatures, but rather tokens, or wooden cubes.
40K is the very definition of a tabletop minitature wargame. Take the wargaming part out and see what happens.
It is not a wargame, tabletop miniatures game, most certainly. But far from a wargame. The two miniature games that GW have made that came close to being what you describe are Warmaster and Epic 40,000... both of which were unpopular with GW's fan base.
My feelings about the grinding, endless discourse at hand aside, that last set of statements seem myopic to me.
The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.
So you agree with stonehorse here that 40k is played because it is so bad as this is the only way competitive players can take the challenge and casual players can have fun?
What are you even on about at this point?
Do you honestly think 40k is only played because people find it to be a bad system? Nothing to do with the extensive lore, the settings the wonderful miniatures, etc?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: In the past 15 years I have played more games of Turnip28 than I have 40k. Same for Frostgrave, Forbidden Psalm, This is Not a Test, One Page Rules, Monsterpocalyse, Dystopian Wars and a slew of others I'm forgetting.
Please try to tell me again that I'm not casual enough to enjoy this new version of 40k where tourney grinders find a 75 mortal wound combo on their first pass of the datacards and some people are stuck with models worth half their points cost because they glued the wrong bits on
No such thing as gluing on the wrong bits, as soon as someone buys the model, they can do with it as they like. Some people prefer to build their models for what they think looks best, and for variety. It is an easier life than building models to follow an ever changing meta. Editions/rules come and go, but models stay together, unless the glue is a bit shoddy and the model isn't looked after properly.
The new rules make ‘glued the wrong bits on’ much more of an issue then before.
Before if you didn’t take every option you could, or took something suboptimal, then you at least got a points discount you could put into something else. If you were playing a causal game rather than ultra meta then that was fine, doesn’t need to be super optimal but is hopefully roughly balanced.
Now if you don’t take the best thing, or heaven forbid have upgrades you didn’t take, then you’re effectively playing with a massive points deficit and that feels bad.
2023/06/18 22:07:24
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
You're only 'playing down' if the only reason you showed up is to run a mathematically optimized list to stomp your opponent into the dirt. There are more ways to play wargames than pure 1:1 competitive formats.
Prometheum5 wrote: You're only 'playing down' if the only reason you showed up is to run a mathematically optimized list to stomp your opponent into the dirt. There are more ways to play wargames than pure 1:1 competitive formats.
And every single one of those ways benefits from models being costed appropriate to their ability.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2023/06/18 22:16:12
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Prometheum5 wrote: You're only 'playing down' if the only reason you showed up is to run a mathematically optimized list to stomp your opponent into the dirt. There are more ways to play wargames than pure 1:1 competitive formats.
Feels to me like the new points system has taken the all-too-common occurrence of being saddled with an underpowered army and, rather than it arising from codex creep, instead baked it into your wargear choices with no hope of reprieve.
My buddies and I will probably approach the 'your army is 2000pts on paper but we all know it's worth less than that' issue the same way in 10th that we did in prior editions, balancing it out ourselves.
It just somehow feels insulting for GW to say that this is their intent, let alone that this is a good thing and an improvement over the terrible burden of elementary school arithmetic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/18 22:17:02
Played a game of 40k, 1000pts of Necrons vs Grey Knights. I could only barely kill his guys, slowly whittling stuff down. Meanwhile he killed my guys off in impressive droves, but never quite enough to finish off a unit and then they all just came back. Ended the game with no one dead and two wounds on my Command Barge, he lost one five man unit and had a half dead Dreadknight. Most importantly I scored max 50 primary points to his 12 and a failed Gambit. We didn’t track secondaries very well because someone else had been using that part of the deck. New Reanimation Protocols are Crazy good on Warriors.
2023/06/18 22:59:27
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
There's a lot of discussion about triggering devastating wounds with fate dice. On the face of it, I agree it looks like it could be a big problem but in the context of a actual games being played, is it as big an issue as it looks?
Most (not all) Eldar units fall over in a stiff breeze, so it may just be the case that both armies annihilate eachother.
Has anybody got any links to Eldar battle reports?
2023/06/18 23:19:08
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
There are already plenty of battle reports with eldar on youtube. I've only (partially) watched one of these so I'm not sure how much fate dice affected the games.
Mchagen wrote: There are already plenty of battle reports with eldar on youtube. I've only (partially) watched one of these so I'm not sure how much fate dice affected the games.
1. Didn't bring Dcannons on the Wraithknight, still nearly tabled his opponent and lost basically nothing. That said, marine list was ass. Eldar Win. 2. Eldar list was a hodge podge with only Eldrad and the Fire Prisms being big threats. Rerolled fate dice down to 13, ended up with 3 sixes and terrible dice otherwise. Points were close but the GK player had barely any models left with most of the Eldar army still on the table. Eldar win. 3. Same sort of hodge-podgey eldar list with Eldrad. CSM list just went for a bunch of toughish bodies. Fate dice were 4 sixes and decent otherwise. Eldar lost and lost most of the army, but still scored very well. 4. Pretty strong looking Marine list (desolation marines) into Eldar with max platforms, a DCannon Knight, and some Wave Serpents. Both lists seems solid, though not totally optimised. I would actually favor marines here because the Eldar player has a lot of Infantry that Deslation Marines are going to eat and doesn't have a great answer for the Dreads without all his 6s on the fate dice.. Three 6s for Fate dice. Eldar win by 1 point. Lost more units (Desolation Marines). Both armies are strong, so not really surprised at the close match. 5. Eldar list had Dcannons and Prism, but was otherwise most just a pile of stuff. Knights were knights. Preceptor, Warden, otherone, Little guys.Knights win by 1pt.
So 2 stomps, 1 close win, and 2 close losses against other factions that are considered pretty solid.
Not sure if you can read anything into these either way, honestly. All players were mostly having a laugh, lists weren't terrible but only dipped their toes into degenerate (both Eldar and the opponents), also didn't play any of the dogwater factions. All 5 games saw big contibutions from fate dice, but it kind of felt like they either forgot about them or pretended to forget about them sometimes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/19 01:13:14
2023/06/19 05:10:52
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
simply just using your own arguments for why it is good for casual players that the rules are bad, to show that those make no sense
so fine that you realised that people play 40k despite the rules and not because of it, so defending bad rules makes no sense as no one benefits from it except GW
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/06/19 05:55:48
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
simply just using your own arguments for why it is good for casual players that the rules are bad, to show that those make no sense
so fine that you realised that people play 40k despite the rules and not because of it, so defending bad rules makes no sense as no one benefits from it except GW
Kilshot, kodos. Absolute killshot.
2023/06/19 06:04:03
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Shakalooloo wrote: The casual player is one that would happily take part in a 'last stand' type mission, where they are hopelessly outnumbered with no chance of victory, and the fun comes from seeing how well they do before being wiped out. The old Ork's Drift routine.
Some of my fondest memories were using my praetorian IG holding out in the Gorkamorka fortress vs endless waves of orks.
Crusade for me is not essential to buy as book, most gamers can make their own rules up.
2025: Games Played:0/Models Bought:93/Sold:0/Painted:69
2024: Games Played:6/Models Bought:393/Sold:519/Painted: 207
2023: Games Played:0/Models Bought:287/Sold:0/Painted: 203
2020-2022: Games Played:42/Models Bought:1271/Sold:631/Painted:442
2016-19: Games Played:369/Models Bought:772/Sold:378/ Painted:268
2012-15: Games Played:412/Models Bought: 1163/Sold:730/Painted:436
2023/06/19 06:46:25
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
I wonder how GW got the idea that players don't like doing points calculations? It's part of the fun of making an army list. It's painful of you have to have multiple books open to do it, but working through a single codex to come up with a list is quite enjoyable. And finding the points to squeeze in those extra items and upgrades is definitely part of the enjoyment. I can see how people who want a quick game would like to be able to slam a list together fast, but otherwise this really didn't seem necessary. Seems to me that they tried to merge power levels and points values, and possibly ended up with the worst of both worlds. Or it's just change for the sake of change, which is probably the product of their absurdly fast edition cycle.
Strangely enough, I had a feeling that they might be headed in the direction of even more streamlined army list construction, and simplified my Ork army into units that largely seem to track what they've done. But as I've now switched to HH, where (mercifully) everything moves much more slowly, I'm not sure if it will matter. I just hope HH sticks to its pre-8th Edition roots.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett RIP
2023/06/19 06:53:21
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
Can someone explain to me the balancing of vehicles? Even the scout sentinel and sentinel have 3+ 2+ armour saves, so I guess most vehicles have high armour and the differing value for vehicles will mainly be toughness/wounds?
2023/06/19 07:03:09
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
RustyNumber wrote: Can someone explain to me the balancing of vehicles? Even the scout sentinel and sentinel have 3+ 2+ armour saves, so I guess most vehicles have high armour and the differing value for vehicles will mainly be toughness/wounds?
You see the armor value represents one part of the armoredness of a tank. The really important stat is the increased T ceiling with the wound count.
in the past we could do that with the wounds and AV what we now need 3 stats for. Theoretically the later solution increases posibility for finetuning, but only if the people involved actually USE the spread of stats. Hence the wierdness you brought up with the SV being so close and so good on sentinels, traditionally not very tanky units.
IoW, on paper a 3 step modifyable "tank" toughness system is a good idea but only if you actually have the designers that have the overall restraint and awareness over multiple factions for it to be made to work.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2023/06/19 07:07:19
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels
Mchagen wrote: There are already plenty of battle reports with eldar on youtube. I've only (partially) watched one of these so I'm not sure how much fate dice affected the games.
1. Didn't bring Dcannons on the Wraithknight, still nearly tabled his opponent and lost basically nothing. That said, marine list was ass. Eldar Win.
2. Eldar list was a hodge podge with only Eldrad and the Fire Prisms being big threats. Rerolled fate dice down to 13, ended up with 3 sixes and terrible dice otherwise. Points were close but the GK player had barely any models left with most of the Eldar army still on the table. Eldar win.
3. Same sort of hodge-podgey eldar list with Eldrad. CSM list just went for a bunch of toughish bodies. Fate dice were 4 sixes and decent otherwise. Eldar lost and lost most of the army, but still scored very well.
4. Pretty strong looking Marine list (desolation marines) into Eldar with max platforms, a DCannon Knight, and some Wave Serpents. Both lists seems solid, though not totally optimised. I would actually favor marines here because the Eldar player has a lot of Infantry that Deslation Marines are going to eat and doesn't have a great answer for the Dreads without all his 6s on the fate dice.. Three 6s for Fate dice. Eldar win by 1 point. Lost more units (Desolation Marines). Both armies are strong, so not really surprised at the close match.
5. Eldar list had Dcannons and Prism, but was otherwise most just a pile of stuff. Knights were knights. Preceptor, Warden, otherone, Little guys.Knights win by 1pt.
So 2 stomps, 1 close win, and 2 close losses against other factions that are considered pretty solid.
Not sure if you can read anything into these either way, honestly. All players were mostly having a laugh, lists weren't terrible but only dipped their toes into degenerate (both Eldar and the opponents), also didn't play any of the dogwater factions. All 5 games saw big contibutions from fate dice, but it kind of felt like they either forgot about them or pretended to forget about them sometimes.
Thanks for the links and the summary. I'll give those a watch over this week. I suppose the important thing is how those fate dice were used, or could have been used. If, as you say, they forgot about them when they could have been used, that might have altered the outcome of those games.
My feeling is, you'll get 2 or 3 sixes most of the time, because you'll be rolling fewer and fewer dice even if you want to fish. Eldrad may give you one more. Anything else is going to have to come from rerolls of existing dice or the additional dice you can generate, so maybe one or two more. I'm working on the basis that you'll get 6 on average, even if you work for it. Of course you might spike sometimes and get 10 or more and then your opponent is in for a world of pain.
The half dozen sixes that I think you'll get could swing big moments but I'm not convinced they'll be oppressive however I think it's difficult to judge at this early stage. I think a lot will depend on whether you can get enough fate dice manipulation combined with big devastating wounds output and still have enough left to have a good objective game to get the victory points. Some of the armies in those reports are really odd looking and I'm not sure how they cope with a big horde. A lot will depend how the meta shakes out and devastating wounds looks like it will shape the meta.
One of my big concerns for this edition is the spamable number of precision shots. There seem to be a large number of ways to get precision. I initially thought they'd trigger only on crits, but it's on any hit. Rangers with Illic, corsairs and deathmarks all look rather scary for the average character. Corsairs even get a wraith cannon with precision for some lovely mortal wound sniping
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/19 07:08:47
