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 Lord Damocles wrote:
So GW just had a second price list, with much higher increases, lying around - as you do - and just oopsie doopsie sent that one out instead of the correct one.

Right. Sure. Seems legit.

Does it sound more reasonable that they made sweeping, company-wide pricing decisions literally because of ~ one and half days of mild internet outrage?

Such things are usually calculated and projected in some form, and that usually entails a substantial process - not to say that they have not made dumb decisions before, but they are probably not exactly mustache-twirling cartoon villains that drop their plans once they are found out by those meddlin' kids.

Mistakes do actually happen and get corrected from time to time, it's not literally always just an excuse and arse-covering.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
No, spoken like somebody who's never sent out a massively 'inaccurate' spreadsheet to a continent's worth of customers.

Can you honestly say you've never worked with someone careless or incompetent enough to do that? I certainly have. And, like I said, it's a lot more believable than the idea that the standard whining about price increases made GW panic and change their plans.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
No, spoken like somebody who's never sent out a massively 'inaccurate' spreadsheet to a continent's worth of customers.

Can you honestly say you've never worked with someone careless or incompetent enough to do that? I certainly have. And, like I said, it's a lot more believable than the idea that the standard whining about price increases made GW panic and change their plans.

And it's also a lot more believable than GW actually thinking they could get away with announcing a 6% price increase publicly and "secretly" doing a 20% price increase in their largest region instead, on the same day. As if those price lists wouldn't find their way to the internet.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So GW just had a second price list, with much higher increases, lying around - as you do - and just oopsie doopsie sent that one out instead of the correct one.

Right. Sure. Seems legit.

Spoken like someone who has never had to deal with shared excel sheets at a job.

No, spoken like somebody who's never sent out a massively 'inaccurate' spreadsheet to a continent's worth of customers.

I know someone who nearly caused a margin call on a high street bank (that would possibly bankrupted them) once by sending the wrong day's speadsheet.

It happens.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
No, spoken like somebody who's never sent out a massively 'inaccurate' spreadsheet to a continent's worth of customers.

Can you honestly say you've never worked with someone careless or incompetent enough to do that? I certainly have. And, like I said, it's a lot more believable than the idea that the standard whining about price increases made GW panic and change their plans.

Correct. I've never worked with anyone who would have been 'careless' enough to create a second parallel version of a spreadsheet with wildly different numbers, just because they like pushing random buttons on Excel or something, and then sent it to third parties.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Here’s a thought. Maybe a counter.

What do I do with a Gunpla once it’s bought and assembled?

GW stuff, I can field them in a game. The more a person plays, the greater their investment pays off.

If you’re buying purely to assemble, paint and display? Sure Gunpla May (depending entirely on personal taste) prove the wiser investment.

Well, there's multiple games that uses them, both official from Bandai and all sorts of unofficial, like Mobile Suit Skirmish.

https://donkusgaming.wordpress.com/category/mobile-suit-gundam-skirmish-2/

Just in case it was not rethorical.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Correct. I've never worked with anyone who would have been 'careless' enough to create a second parallel version of a spreadsheet with wildly different numbers, just because they like pushing random buttons on Excel or something, and then sent it to third parties.

Why do you assume it was a parallel version? The most likely explanation is that there was a single version, someone screwed it up, and when GW caught the error they made a new version with the correct numbers and sent it out as a replacement. I really don't know why you find this hard to believe, this kind of error is hardly rare.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
And they just walked back the 20% increase and claim (possibly true) it was an error and whoever made the list used a wrong file.

So, the “useless” pushback had more of an effect than just quietly going along with things and not complaining? Imagine that.

Or it’s a genuine typo. Far stranger things have happened.

I would need to see some extraordinary proof to believe that.

As would I for the ludicrous claim that GW fans finally succeeded in complaining loudly enough for it to be heard at Nottingham. The timetable, especially, is impossibly fast for that outlandish scenario to be true.

Apple fox wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I stopped playing over a year ago. So many mini's still need to be painted. Broke out all my mini's for Battletech now......way cheaper.

It’s funny how easy battletech makes it, I have enough mechs to introduce players and play full games with them. And I still feel I haven’t spent too much on it.
I think all my GW hobby money will end up going there for now, easy easy.
No GW game is worth the prices.

Oh I have spent too much on Battletech over the years, and I will probably spend a lot more xD, but I could play planetary assaults 1:1 if I chose to, at this point ^^

In regards to the old list, it's source is one of the 3rd party retailers, as my local one says he was sent the same one from GW. When he called his rep they were tearing their hair out and said the recent list is being sent out post-haste. (the link has already been sent in this thread)

Seems like it was a semi-legit mistake. Not sure why they have the document, who knows, but it does seem the recent one was meant to be sent out.

FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

 Azreal13 wrote:
FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

From what I can tell from my local, it seems to have been an upper-management thing, as none of the reps or support staff seem to have any idea that this was happening or why it happened. They're currently panicked and trying to run damaged control. How high up the chain is still a mystery.

 Azreal13 wrote:
FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

If that was the case then it was a really badly executed version of the strategy. The "leak" was only in a non-public document that hardly anyone would see, not a public statement where it would get attention. And rather than letting the leak sit long enough for more than a handful of dedicated forum members to see it GW immediately informed retailers that the price list was incorrect and would be updated. In fact, they set expectations before the leak went out by making their public statement about the actual ~6% increase, establishing that as the reference point for discussion and wasting a lot of the relief effect. This is PR 101 stuff GW would be getting very wrong.

And then there's the question of why GW would bother with PR manipulation over a normal price increase when they haven't shown any interest in doing so in the past, and when regular price increases have clearly been a winning business plan. The simplest explanation, that it was a genuine error, is a far better fit for the events we've seen.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So GW just had a second price list, with much higher increases, lying around - as you do - and just oopsie doopsie sent that one out instead of the correct one.

Right. Sure. Seems legit.

Does it sound more reasonable that they made sweeping, company-wide pricing decisions literally because of ~ one and half days of mild internet outrage?

Such things are usually calculated and projected in some form, and that usually entails a substantial process - not to say that they have not made dumb decisions before, but they are probably not exactly mustache-twirling cartoon villains that drop their plans once they are found out by those meddlin' kids.

Mistakes do actually happen and get corrected from time to time, it's not literally always just an excuse and arse-covering.

Your point might have landed if we weren’t constantly seen by cases of companies putting out policy statements, facing more backlash than they had anticipated, quickly walking back their policy statement, and then trying to pretend they had always intended to go with a more reasonable policy and this was all just a big misunderstanding.

 Azreal13 wrote:
FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

Yeah a secret evil conspiracy is certainly more plausible than someone fat-fingering an Excel file.

 Azreal13 wrote:
FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

This is far more believable than GW accidentally creating and then accidentally distributing an oopsie spreadsheet.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So GW just had a second price list, with much higher increases, lying around - as you do - and just oopsie doopsie sent that one out instead of the correct one.

Right. Sure. Seems legit.

Does it sound more reasonable that they made sweeping, company-wide pricing decisions literally because of ~ one and half days of mild internet outrage?

Such things are usually calculated and projected in some form, and that usually entails a substantial process - not to say that they have not made dumb decisions before, but they are probably not exactly mustache-twirling cartoon villains that drop their plans once they are found out by those meddlin' kids.

Mistakes do actually happen and get corrected from time to time, it's not literally always just an excuse and arse-covering.

Your point might have landed if we weren’t constantly seen by cases of companies putting out policy statements, facing more backlash than they had anticipated, quickly walking back their policy statement, and then trying to pretend they had always intended to go with a more reasonable policy and this was all just a big misunderstanding.

Eh, it's not a hill i'm particularly interested in dying on, you may very well be correct, but we'll probably never know for sure. I'm happy to end that particular thread of discussion on that note.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
And they just walked back the 20% increase and claim (possibly true) it was an error and whoever made the list used a wrong file.

So, the “useless” pushback had more of an effect than just quietly going along with things and not complaining? Imagine that.

Or it’s a genuine typo. Far stranger things have happened.

I would need to see some extraordinary proof to believe that.

As would I for the ludicrous claim that GW fans finally succeeded in complaining loudly enough for it to be heard at Nottingham. The timetable, especially, is impossibly fast for that outlandish scenario to be true.

I have to be honest, I do find it to be very amusing that certain people think that they forced GW into making a completely different set of price changes in the space of a few hours.

 xttz wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
FWIW, "leaking" a worst case scenario, and "backtracking" to the position you intended all along is a fairly common PR tactic for breaking bad news, as everyone's instant reaction resets from "oh my god, this is terrible" to "oh, phew, it isn't as bad as it looked."

I've seen multiple cases suggesting Netflix have done this with their new account sharing policy, for instance.

Obviously hardly anybody outside of department likely knows the precise events, but it's not unprecedented.

Yeah a secret evil conspiracy is certainly more plausible than someone fat-fingering an Excel file.

Nothing conspiratorial about it, it's a known technique for taking the edge off when news with no upside needs to be broken.

I'm not even claiming that this is what I think happened, it's just something that does happen.

As for the points further up thread, how exactly do you think leaks work? You don't send out a fething press release, you deliberately release it in a method that reaches a wider audience but looks like it wasn't meant to.

As for why now? Cost of living crisis in many western economies.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Your point might have landed if we weren’t constantly seen by cases of companies putting out policy statements, facing more backlash than they had anticipated, quickly walking back their policy statement, and then trying to pretend they had always intended to go with a more reasonable policy and this was all just a big misunderstanding.

Except GW didn't face backlash. They faced the normal amount of complaining about price increases, complaining which in the past has not made them change their mind about price increases and has never had any effect on their annual profit. A few people grumbling about price increases and swearing to quit, just like they do every year, is not the level of response that makes a company panic and reverse course on their business plan. Hell, most people didn't even see the incorrect price list before GW informed retailers that it was an error.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This is far more believable than GW accidentally creating and then accidentally distributing an oopsie spreadsheet.

Like I said above, spoken like someone who has never had to deal with shared excel sheets. This kind of error is 100% believable and the only surprising thing to me is that it doesn't happen more often. And TBH maybe it does, it just doesn't get any attention because "GW sent out the wrong file and fixed it a few hours later" isn't news outside of some poor employee's quarterly review.

You're awfully confident of information that you shouldn't really be in a position to know, do you work for the Nottingham Mafia by any chance?

 Azreal13 wrote:
As for the points further up thread, how exactly do you think leaks work? You don't send out a fething press release, you deliberately release it in a method that reaches a wider audience but looks like it wasn't meant to.

Key point: reaches a wider audience. This supposed "leak" never reached a wider audience. Hardly anyone saw it before GW made direct statements that it was not an accurate price list, and GW made their public statement of the actual price increase before the "leak" happened. If this was an attempt at leak and retract PR games it was so hilariously badly done that whoever was responsible should be fired and blacklisted from ever working in the industry again.

If the original document wasn't a cock up why was it only the US that was posted?

 Azreal13 wrote:
You're awfully confident of information that you shouldn't really be in a position to know, do you work for the Nottingham Mafia by any chance?

To be fair, I've seen fairly incorrect spreadsheets be sent out by careless coworkers and I don't even work in finance.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
As for the points further up thread, how exactly do you think leaks work? You don't send out a fething press release, you deliberately release it in a method that reaches a wider audience but looks like it wasn't meant to.

Key point: reaches a wider audience. This supposed "leak" never reached a wider audience. Hardly anyone saw it before GW made direct statements that it was not an accurate price list, and GW made their public statement of the actual price increase before the "leak" happened. If this was an attempt at leak and retract PR games it was so hilariously badly done that whoever was responsible should be fired and blacklisted from ever working in the industry again.

You think they don't know those independent price lists don't make it out on to the web just like this one did? You think that their public statement didn't "forget" that it was just focused on UK RRP?

Once again, I'm not claiming I believe any of it, but your certainty suggests either you are in possession of information that the general public isn't, or you're so naive you don't really appreciate how little information you do have.

 Azreal13 wrote:
You think they don't know those independent price lists don't make it out on to the web just like this one did? You think that their public statement didn't "forget" that it was just focused on UK RRP?

Of course those price lists make it out eventually. But GW didn't allow time for the "leak" to propagate beyond the retailers and a handful of obsessive forum posters before making direct statements that the "leaked" price list was incorrect and shutting it down. We're very rapidly reaching the point where arguing over tinfoil hat theories about the "leak" has been going on longer than discussion of the "leaked" prices and it's barely after lunch time.

Once again, I'm not claiming I believe any of it, but your certainty suggests either you are in possession of information that the general public isn't, or you're so naive you don't really appreciate how little information you do have.

I have plenty of information and the ability to use common sense. We have two possible explanations here:

1) GW made a spectacularly bad attempt at a "leak and retract" PR stunt, completely failing to manage even the most basic sequence of events. Despite having abundant examples of past timelines from a price list going out to retailers to discussion of the price list ramping up they issued the retraction before the "leak" spread beyond a handful of people, ensuring that very few people felt any sense of relief at the actual prices because they were never aware of the "leaked" prices. And despite the key to the whole idea being "thank god it's not that bad" the published the public statement before the leak, anchoring the 6% number in the minds of most customers and making the "leak" less believable as well as reducing the impact of the correction. And they did all of this for a regular price increase that has not involved any PR shenanigans in the past and has not faced anything more than the usual mild grumbling that accompanies every price increase.

or

2) The claimed error was in fact an error.
When the alternative explanation is "the idiots running GW's PR department have no idea how to execute even very basic PR actions" the simplest explanation is by far the most likely one. Someone at GW made a mistake, the sort of mistake that is 100% believable for anyone who has worked with shared excel sheets, and as soon as the mistake was discovered GW issued a correction.

Yeah this doesn't feel like a slick PR stunt. Those often come with big apology messages and far far more outcry.

This feels like a "oh darn Dave put a 20 instead of a 6 on the final version of the spreadsheet and didn't doublecheck before he hit "send to all" on the email list.

Can such things happen - sure they can. It's also far more believable than GW trying a price rise stunt when they've no reason too. They do a price rise around this time of year most years, its normal practice and every year there's an uproar of "this is the end times" and then, GW goes on to have a decently to more profitable year.


There's just no reason to mess with this kind of PR stunt and its not the kind of PR that we generally see from GW. They do "leaks" of their own sure along with leaks that aren't of their own making; but by and large their marketing is more up front because its 7 days a week every week. I don't think they can really afford shock-value-pr-stunts when they are more reliant on daily pr

Tsagualsa 808826 11490691 wrote:

GW have convinced themselves into a corner of ''we're special'' a long, long time ago, and even the flushing-out of kirbyite management has not fully undone this yet - as long as they insist on maintaining their own stores, and on ''The GW hobby'' being a different thing from tabletop wargaming at large, you'll have a very hard time in making them see common buisness sense. That being said, their practices are weird, but not unsuccesful - they managed to stay afloat and expand during multiple economic downturns in the last couple of decades.

GW are special, in the UK at least. They completely dominate the tabletop gaming space.

No other company is releasing new models every single week - all the major FLGS have weekly new stock email circulations and they mainly coincide with the GW 10am Saturday pre orders.

GW release more stuff (plus all the books and merchandise), have more variety in available games, and have arguably the best most detailed miniatures for sale.

The fact that they can get away with some of the more unpalatable aspects (like high prices and paying for rules), and yet still make very healthy profits, shows they are the Apple of tabletop gaming. As much as it's cool to hate on them, they have a massive fan base who are happy to pay premium prices for a premium product.

Actually I'd say Magic the Gathering is right now the Apple of the market.

£1000 for a handful of cards that can't even be used in regular MTG games?

£100s for collector sets that are time limited?

Graph needed to work out which booster set you need for what game format?



MTG are WAY more Apple than GW right now in the gaming scene

 Overread wrote:
Yeah this doesn't feel like a slick PR stunt. Those often come with big apology messages and far far more outcry.

This feels like a "oh darn Dave put a 20 instead of a 6 on the final version of the spreadsheet and didn't doublecheck before he hit "send to all" on the email list.

Can such things happen - sure they can. It's also far more believable than GW trying a price rise stunt when they've no reason too. They do a price rise around this time of year most years, its normal practice and every year there's an uproar of "this is the end times" and then, GW goes on to have a decently to more profitable year.


There's just no reason to mess with this kind of PR stunt and its not the kind of PR that we generally see from GW. They do "leaks" of their own sure along with leaks that aren't of their own making; but by and large their marketing is more up front because its 7 days a week every week. I don't think they can really afford shock-value-pr-stunts when they are more reliant on daily pr

I'm with you on the mistake angle, for the most part. If this were really a PR stunt, the Reps would have been told this was a stunt and to not panic as much as my Local tells me they are. Though having seen both documents, I think it's not a "bob pressed 20 instead of 6" and more "bob sent Document B instead of Document A". Both are legit documents, but the 20% isn't the one intended to be sent out today. What the old document is for is a mystery to me though.