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Assuming matching base sizes, the Beastmen as bigger than the Kasrkin.

I assume the beastmen will match the Blackstone Fortress models. They were quite chunky and much larger than the traitor guard.

I think they went too feral on them though. There is an amazing army on Dakka somewhere with high tech beastmen using Tau parts and it looks awesome.

 Dysartes wrote:
Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?

Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.

Not Online!!! wrote:
They are too aosy?

I have to agree. They're not 40k-y enough.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".

I'll give you some credit, at least you're not blaming the players this time...

 Theophony wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?

The emperor's throwing stick. Who's the goodest boy? Is it Russ? Who wants to go for walkies?

And now I have in my head an image of Russ sitting on all fours, waiting for a thrown snack

A tremendous reveal, all things considered. I am happy that they did not redesign the Terminators in a major way apart from reproportioning them and modernizing some of the design elements like the weapons.

Though much is taken, much abides.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?

Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.

Not Online!!! wrote:
They are too aosy?

I have to agree. They're not 40k-y enough.

They aren't as well designed as the AoS ones. Apart from the weapon stats (and agree the types should be a column, not an afterthought), nothing is grouped or organized properly. Its just a LOT of dead space with handful of lines of stats in no particular order and a small abilities textblock crammed in on the side (and from a readability perspective, the wrong side- we read from left to right, so the fundamental abilities of the unit should be in a more prominent position, not off over there).

But yes, they don't look 40k, because there's basically nothing in the way of design elements. Crosshair for shooting, crossed mallets for melee and a faction symbol, and a plain (though readable) font. For a full-color card with model pictures, this is bland.


-----

A surprisingly good preview overall.
Seraphon are amazing, for 40k- recognition that they need to fix things is good (pending actual results) though increasing the scale of battles line is concerning, classic terminators and just shrugging at the primaris divide is fething great (now do it for tactical, assault and devastator squads!), beastmen are interesting at least, tzeentch band is what the changer of ways forces should look like. The Lion model is good (but I still have no interest in SCs, let alone primarchs).

Ossiarchs and HH are the big losers- they needed a lot more than yet another character model. And the heresy preview was... a book cover. Why bother?

Cities of Sigmar models are... existing? They're busy, and some of design elements are not great. (Why bibs rather than tabards? Why silly hats? Why wrapped belts rather than pants?) They do have a warhammer that actually looks like one, though (if still scaled way too large) so points for that.

Voss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?

Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.

Not Online!!! wrote:
They are too aosy?

I have to agree. They're not 40k-y enough.

They aren't as well designed as the AoS ones. Apart from the weapon stats (and agree the types should be a column, not an afterthought), nothing is grouped or organized properly. Its just a LOT of dead space with handful of lines of stats in no particular order and a small abilities textblock crammed in on the side (and from a readability perspective, the wrong side- we read from left to right, so the fundamental abilities of the unit should be in a more prominent position, not off over there).

But yes, they don't look 40k, because there's basically nothing in the way of design elements. Crosshair for shooting, crossed mallets for melee and a faction symbol, and a plain (though readable) font. For a full-color card with model pictures, this is bland.

To be fair if they're mainly intended as a playing aid you use at and on the table, 'bland but readable' is much better than flavourful but useless. Ideally it would be both flavourful and useable, of course.

We were talking about the Beastmen, not the cards. That's the "too AOS-y" and "not 40k-y" comments.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Lion looks great, but familiar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RIP to the force org chart

Now photoshop Tyrion as one of the small watchers in the dark

Tsagualsa wrote:


To be fair if they're mainly intended as a playing aid you use at and on the table, 'bland but readable' is much better than flavourful but useless. Ideally it would be both flavourful and useable, of course.

You aren't wrong, but in my head there's a distinction between a full color card with unit pictures they might want you to buy (which is this) and a image-less pdf with statblocks (which is what I'd actually use, to save on printing).

For the 'fancy version,' this is underwhelming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We were talking about the Beastmen, not the cards. That's the "too AOS-y" and "not 40k-y" comments.

Ah. The top part was specifically about the datasheets, I hadn't realized you switched topics.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
RIP to the force org chart

We've done this dance once before, it didn't stick

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
RIP to the force org chart

We've done this dance once before, it didn't stick

With explicit rule of three (except battleline, which I note termagants are not [unless they're doing stupid things with boxed set datacards just leaving out rules again]), its honestly not that different from the ark of omen detachment. Its just ditching the pretense.

How it shakes out is another story, but I can see them not touching it until after they redo the codex cycle and start producing filler before 11th edition.

I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.

 Theophony wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Lion looks great, but familiar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RIP to the force org chart

Now photoshop Tyrion as one of the small watchers in the dark

I do not know who this Tyrion is that you're talking about, one of the watchers clearly needs to be Sancho Panza:



'King Arthur' El'Johnson returning as Don Quijote to tilt at both chaotic and imperial windmills alike sounds like a likely plot, anyway.

I don't know about AoS-y, but yeah, there's definitely something about the Beastmen that just don't hit the mark for me.

Feel like they are missing a design theme.

 warboss wrote:
I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.

They mentioned First Born and Primaris can now wear Terminator Armour in the video.

 warboss wrote:
I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.

Just properly scaled.

The original Terminators in Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed were titchy wee. 3rd - 9th we got improvements, but still on the diddy side,

These ones are looking to be Just Right.

Voss wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
RIP to the force org chart

We've done this dance once before, it didn't stick

With explicit rule of three (except battleline, which I note termagants are not [unless they're doing stupid things with boxed set datacards just leaving out rules again]), its honestly not that different from the ark of omen detachment. Its just ditching the pretense.

AoS doesn't list Battleline on warscroll cards either. It's all done in the back of the book, under "Battlefield Role".

 warboss wrote:
. The edition where you got free points in game for spending more money instore

Huh?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
. The edition where you got free points in game for spending more money instore

Huh?

hes refering to 7th and the "free transports" stuff they had going on then.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Lion looks great, but familiar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RIP to the force org chart

Now photoshop Tyrion as one of the small watchers in the dark

I do not know who this Tyrion is that you're talking about, one of the watchers clearly needs to be Sancho Panza:



'King Arthur' El'Johnson returning as Don Quijote to tilt at both chaotic and imperial windmills alike sounds like a likely plot, anyway.

Who is going to be Mordred and Morgana Le Fay?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/the-best-8-moments-from-the-awesome-new-warhammer-40000-cinematic-trailer/

Some confirmations just dropped

I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model

Assault cannon still isn't caseless I see

Apart from that stupid opinion , I like the new terminators.

 Strg Alt wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Lion looks great, but familiar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RIP to the force org chart

Now photoshop Tyrion as one of the small watchers in the dark

I do not know who this Tyrion is that you're talking about, one of the watchers clearly needs to be Sancho Panza:

Spoiler:

'King Arthur' El'Johnson returning as Don Quijote to tilt at both chaotic and imperial windmills alike sounds like a likely plot, anyway.

Who is going to be Mordred and Morgana Le Fay?

Not to drag this too much OP, but Mordred is of course Horus, while Morgana is more difficult to put down, probably Erebus or Lorgar

Anyway, 40k uses Arthurian themes, but it is not itself a straight retelling of the Arthurian myth. Interestingly, it has more parallels with the classic of feminist fantastic literature, 'The mists of Avalon' by Marion Zimmer Bradley, which is in itself a story about religious conflict etc. that relies heavily on Arthurian themes and stories, but does a pretty free interpretation on them. It also appeared 5 years before Warhammer 40k and was very famous in Fantasy and SciFi circles, so it's not impossible that it might actually have influenced the settings interpretation of religion, gods and metaphysics, but that is a story for another time

 Mr Morden wrote:
I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model

I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model

I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.

Actually I could see him treating them just like Tywin Lannister treats his children.

Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.

^ This 'marketing into lore' stuff I read yesterday is just silly. Just stop GW, stop with the marketing and lore excuses.

Any guesses to how OLD the Lion is or was when he went into stasis? The older looking Lionel didn't surprise me, I suspected he would not be as youthful as Guilliman.

 RedSarge wrote:

Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.

^ This 'marketing into lore' stuff I read yesterday is just silly. Just stop GW, stop with the marketing and lore excuses.

Any guesses to how OLD the Lion is or was when he went into stasis? The older looking Lionel didn't surprise me, I suspected he would not be as youthful as Guilliman.

I don't think it's been said he was in stasis, hence the aging. He's just been asleep for 10,000 years.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model

I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.

I'm sleeping (for the last 10K years) and all you lot have been doing is riding around the neighborhood on your bikes and not playing well with any of your cousins .