Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tneva82 wrote:
Index were made first. Codex later. Logic dictates codex points are newer which actually is supported by buffed units getting increases and nerfed decreases.

There's a very high probability that this codex went to print long before the digital indexes (and certainly the later points revisions) were completed. Most likely it was finalised well before Summer. Remember that the first digital indexes were recieved in June had a lot of errata already implemented that wasn't in the earlier printed versions.

Honestly given that this is the first codex for edition fully intended for digital points, things could well go either way. GW might decide to just roll with the old points figures as printed and see how things shake out in real world games alongside all the new detachment rules & revised units. Or they could use the limited data from Tyranid index games and make tweaks based on how specific units have been used in July & August. I still fear for Zoanthropes...

Personally I think they'll retain at least the points for the new / amended units as they're printed in the codex. Other units like the Harpy (which was part of a blanket change due to the aircraft / towering rules) may depend on wider game changes. For example the balance update next week could result in those point increases getting reverted if cover / LOS rules are revised.

None of the points will be correct. The codex points won't include changed made on feedback since 10th started while the index points won't have changes made because of the rules differences between the index and the codex.
Of course you can derive points that will probably be close to the correct ones by looking at both index and codex and comparing what changed and which index erratas aren't reflected in the codex.
But the only way we are getting the real points is waiting until next Saturday? when they will hopefully upload a new updated points sheet

 Matrindur wrote:
But the only way we are getting the real points is waiting until next Saturday? when they will hopefully upload a new updated points sheet

If it's anything like 9th edition, we should get a balance update and revised points list for all factions on Wed/Thur this week.

Are tyranid warriors still the same?

Zachectomy wrote:
Are tyranid warriors still the same?

Apparently so.

Sadly yes. And melee Warriors somehow went up in cost.

By the by, Goonhammer's mixing of point sources is stupid. Obviously the revised Index points were written after the the Codex went to print, but those are points for the Index. If you have the Codex, use the Codex. There is no mixing and matching, otherwise you might as well mix and match datasheets as well (who would be ok with someone using 95% of the Codex, yet still using Index Tyrannofexes with their Damage reduction rule?).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly yes. And melee Warriors somehow went up in cost.

By the by, Goonhammer's mixing of point sources is stupid. Obviously the revised Index points were written after the the Codex went to print, but those are points for the Index. If you have the Codex, use the Codex. There is no mixing and matching, otherwise you might as well mix and match datasheets as well (who would be ok with someone using 95% of the Codex, yet still using Index Tyrannofexes with their Damage reduction rule?).

It'll be a none issue come launch day in theory anyway, it's only because they've a pre-release copy so the points updates aren't public, as there's a chance both are wrong anyway.

Regards the melee warriors I wondered if it was getting the vanguard keywords from the prime giving warriors advance and charge? I know it's bad form to price according to a "subfaction" but it might make a tiny bit of sense this way?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't regret getting 12 Leapers!

Thems things is fun.

Do you find they actually do anything? Mine tend to charge and die just from return punching.

On the Goonhammer points discussion, I think the logic they used was a reaction to the QR code. The codex links to the MFM download page, therefore, until the pdf gets updated, current pdf points are what we should use. You would only use the codex points if you couldn't follow the link for some reason. Regardless, I expect it to be a moot point because the MFM will be updated on release day.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly yes. And melee Warriors somehow went up in cost.

By the by, Goonhammer's mixing of point sources is stupid. Obviously the revised Index points were written after the the Codex went to print, but those are points for the Index. If you have the Codex, use the Codex. There is no mixing and matching, otherwise you might as well mix and match datasheets as well (who would be ok with someone using 95% of the Codex, yet still using Index Tyrannofexes with their Damage reduction rule?).

This. Also the standard for precedence is determined by date of release, not date of creation. The pdf may have been written after the codex went to print, but the codex release is more recent than the pdf release, ergo codex points supercede pdf points.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sadly yes. And melee Warriors somehow went up in cost.

By the by, Goonhammer's mixing of point sources is stupid. Obviously the revised Index points were written after the the Codex went to print, but those are points for the Index. If you have the Codex, use the Codex. There is no mixing and matching, otherwise you might as well mix and match datasheets as well (who would be ok with someone using 95% of the Codex, yet still using Index Tyrannofexes with their Damage reduction rule?).

This. Also the standard for precedence is determined by date of release, not date of creation. The pdf may have been written after the codex went to print, but the codex release is more recent than the pdf release, ergo codex points supercede pdf points.

The codex isn't out yet, when it releases they will update the app with the relevant points, with any adjustments from the field munitorium update. There is every chance they will tweak the points on launch, the app trumps everything and will validate or otherwise the codex points. Yes I did get Votann on launch in 9th..

I think everyone new that the Tyranid Combat Patrols price was dumb as its £95 while the Ultimate Starter has double the models with terrain for £125.

But I just noticed something even dumber. The Starter set has nearly the same contents minus the Barbgaunts but you can buy those on their own for £27.50. Plus the £65 for the starter set results in £92.5 which is less than the Combat Patrol. And you get the whole Marine half for free.

So even if you have absolute no use for the Terrain and Marines from the Ultimate set and don't want to sell them so you might think the Combat Patrol would be worth it for the £30 saved, its still more expensive than just buying the normal starter and Bargaunts and throwing away the Marines.

I really have no idea why they released that Combat Patrol now instead of waiting until 11th edition when the starter set will be changed.

Probably because there are people who won't spot the better deals or who don't want too. Some customers only want to buy from their local store (3rd party or GW); they don't want second hand online Leviathan overstock; nor go through the hassle of buying a starter set and selling off the Marine half of it to someone else.

They just want to walk into the store, buy the Combat Patrol and leave.


Plus the Leviathan stock in the 2nd hand market and the Starter sets are limited accessibility. The 2nd hand will dwindle overtime, heck it might get a little boost when/if the Partworks magazine gets done, though that might even spark more interest and drain the stock faster.
The starter sets are only a 3 year product cycle, whilst the Combat Patrol could likely be a 5-10 year product cycle.

He didn't compare buying 2nd hand though. Just from other items gw sells.


Buy starter set, buy barbgaunts(both from gw), throw all but combat patrol models to bin, save cash.

For everyone looking for Norn E/A size comparison (starts about 13:40)

tneva82 wrote:
He didn't compare buying 2nd hand though. Just from other items gw sells.


Buy starter set, buy barbgaunts(both from gw), throw all but combat patrol models to bin, save cash.

Yeah and as I said some people won't spot that option. They go into the store and they want the codex and combat patrol set same as any other army to get started with.

No splitting a duel box and finding a marine player to flog them too; no dumping in them in the bin or starting a marine army or whatever.


Plus finally every army has a combat patrol, it makes sense that Gw puts that out in the market even if right now its not going to be a best seller. It fills an expected product slot in the line-up and the materials for it were likely all setup around the same time anyway. Plus long term that's likely how those models will be sold until they are given new sculpts and sprues.

 Overread wrote:


Yeah and as I said some people won't spot that option. They go into the store and they want the codex and combat patrol set same as any other army to get started with.

And thats exactly what I don't like. Of course people who don't know about the starter set will buy it but it just seems a bit scummy of GW to me to give them the option to pay more for less just because they didn't know better.

 Overread wrote:


Plus finally every army has a combat patrol, it makes sense that Gw puts that out in the market even if right now its not going to be a best seller. It fills an expected product slot in the line-up and the materials for it were likely all setup around the same time anyway. Plus long term that's likely how those models will be sold until they are given new sculpts and sprues.

Yes that will be how they will be sold in the future after the starter sets are changed as seen with the past edition but the difference is that for 9th they only changed the combat patrol after the starter was gone while they already released the Tyranids one now. Again just seems a bit scummy to me.

I can understand the business decision behind it, even ignoring the potential additional profit this way, because of the fact Combat Patrol is its own gamemode now it makes sense to have a box titled Combat Patrol on the shelves but it still doesn't change the bad feeling it gives me

 Overread wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
He didn't compare buying 2nd hand though. Just from other items gw sells.


Buy starter set, buy barbgaunts(both from gw), throw all but combat patrol models to bin, save cash.

Yeah and as I said some people won't spot that option. They go into the store and they want the codex and combat patrol set same as any other army to get started with.

No splitting a duel box and finding a marine player to flog them too; no dumping in them in the bin or starting a marine army or whatever.


Plus finally every army has a combat patrol, it makes sense that Gw puts that out in the market even if right now its not going to be a best seller. It fills an expected product slot in the line-up and the materials for it were likely all setup around the same time anyway. Plus long term that's likely how those models will be sold until they are given new sculpts and sprues.

Yep. So predatory practice exploiting those who can't do simple math.

Any GW store employee is going to be happy they have an easy up sell for anyone wanting a Tyranid combat patrol.

And I really don’t think it’s fair classifying different options as “predatory”. Selling more of something at a cheaper per unit (but larger overall) cost isn’t unusual.

And combat patrols is just one box and one packaging, easy to pick etc its almost like a £100 impulse buy....


For the rich. XD

It should be noted that the Combat Patrol is 'direct only'.

UltraPrime wrote:
It should be noted that the Combat Patrol is 'direct only'.

Interesting. I hope it isn't a trend, but can almost believe it.

Isn't "Direct only" these days just "3rd parties can't get discount to sell this cheaper" for the most part. I know a while back 3rd parties couldn't even stock them, but these days they do; its just product without any store discount on them.

 Overread wrote:
Isn't "Direct only" these days just "3rd parties can't get discount to sell this cheaper" for the most part. I know a while back 3rd parties couldn't even stock them, but these days they do; its just product without any store discount on them.

I believe 3rd parties get a much-reduced discount (e.g 10% off rather than 40%), mainly so that once their costs are included it doesn't push the product above RRP.

Most likely this is direct-only because 3rd parties can already order the other starter sets, and GW don't anticipate a lot of demand for these CP boxes too. They'll be made in a small volumes and only stocked in GW warehouses.

Direct Only has never (at least in the US) really meant "direct only", as xttz noted it just carries a reduced wholesale discount and (usually) means that it doesn't come in retail packaging (usually "white box"), but has otherwise always been an option for retailers.

Oh, also IIRC they cannot be purchased through GW sales reps, instead it has to be ordered through the online trade sales portal.

I distinctly recall where 3rd parties couldn't order them or were even more heavily discouraged from doing so because no where stocked any "direct only" stuff. Then at some stage something changed and now most stores will stock them, or at least list them for sale even if they don't hold much stock.

I can only go by what I experienced at my local store. There was never a point (in the past 20 years of me being involved in this hobby) where I was unable to order "direct only" goods via my FLGS. My FLGS would also periodically (like once/twice per year) stock in random "direct only" product in the generic white citadel packaging. Seemed to me there weren't any real obstacles to prevent it, and the owner always insisted it was not an issue to get the direct only stuff.

Many stores don't bother with direct only items.

I know of two that do, and the best they can do is 5% off.

Every store should be able to get the direct only items but since the margins on them are way less and a store doesn't have unlimited space its not really worth it to stock them. You can still try to ask them directly to order them for you

Okay coming back to topic:

Since the Assimilation Swarm detachment has just 4 units in it, I assume that more compatible units will join in the future.

Also? I’m given to understand the Haruspex hasn’t changed stats wise, and is now 5 points cheaper.

If so? Every list of mine will include three, because I’m an adult and the only person that can stop me, is me, and even then I won’t take a telling.