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Having to roll every turn for every unit below half strength regardless of whether it took casualties, just rallied, etc seems clunky.

But I do like the effects. Significant, without just being 'this unit can't fight anymore'.

Removed - none of this please.

Dudeface wrote:
Removed - none of this please.

Hah, yea, this will be today's lightning rod.

I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

Just an amalgamation of the options I guess. One or two shots with some MW opportunity and slight edge on elite infantry.

Honestly it brings up huge questions about CSM Termies.

So does this mean we can no longer choose our powers?

*sad Thousand Sons noises*

On a bit of a tangent, has there been any rumours on Secondaries in 10th? Always irked me how random they are: "Sergeant, go capture that position! Scratch that, we need you to kill that specific unit over there!"

Dudeface wrote:
Removed - none of this please.

I hope they see this, bro

 Valkyrie wrote:
So does this mean we can no longer choose our powers?

*sad Thousand Sons noises*

On a bit of a tangent, has there been any rumours on Secondaries in 10th? Always irked me how random they are: "Sergeant, go capture that position! Scratch that, we need you to kill that specific unit over there!"

You might be a bit behind on secondaries - what you're describing is Maelstrom. Those are commonly used in most games atm.

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

Possibly combi-plasma? I'm wondering if it may even be a typo as that Librarian doesn't have a combi-weapon. Regular SM Librarians can take them though so it may well be genuine and not in error.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
If the old blast rule has been kept, we now have interesting choices to make. A unit with 5 models takes rolls after 3 casualties, while a unit with 6 needs 4 casualties. Even numbers are to be preferred. At the same time we all know what happens at 6 models.

2 model units are immune to morale.

Another interesting point. Even if your sniper doesn't get its job done, you can still get that character to panic.

Hmm...I wonder if they'll allow 2 model units ( e.g. Spawn ).

Astra Miltiarium FIeld Ordnance Batteries are limited to 2 models only.

I'm expecting secondary objectives to be a thing but faction specific secondaries to either not be a thing or be a detachment thing.

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.

So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.

Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.

 catbarf wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.

So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.

Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.

It could just be a bespoke thing. What other model has a Storm Bolter + Combi?

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

Schrodinger's combi-weapon, it exists in a state of quantum superposition of being a flamer, plasma gun, meltagun, volkite charger, and grenade launcher all at the same time, and whether you succeed or fail at the attack collapses the wavefunction to determine what it was.

Personally I think a better approach to simplifying combi-weapons would have been to say "okay, the special weapon guy doesn't lose his boltgun" and make them just cosmetically different from having a special weapon with a boltgun slung over the shoulder (like how Star Wars Legion support weapons don't lose their basic rifle), but making the combi-weapon a single universal profile (in the same way the Flash Gitz with plasma guns and the Flash Gitz with autoguns do the same thing, or Obliterators don't have distinct weapon profiles anymore) isn't a bad idea either.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

Schrodinger's combi-weapon, it exists in a state of quantum superposition of being a flamer, plasma gun, meltagun, volkite charger, and grenade launcher all at the same time, and whether you succeed or fail at the attack collapses the wavefunction to determine what it was.

Personally I think a better approach to simplifying combi-weapons would have been to say "okay, the special weapon guy doesn't lose his boltgun" and make them just cosmetically different from having a special weapon with a boltgun slung over the shoulder (like how Star Wars Legion support weapons don't lose their basic rifle), but making the combi-weapon a single universal profile (in the same way the Flash Gitz with plasma guns and the Flash Gitz with autoguns do the same thing, or Obliterators don't have distinct weapon profiles anymore) isn't a bad idea either.

That's not how Combi-Weapons have ever been though. Orks have Combi-Weapons too.

Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?

 catbarf wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.

I'm very confused.

I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.

So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.

Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.

Anti X causes a critical wound on the determined roll.

Critical wounds become mortals with devastating wounds.

 p5freak wrote:
Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?

No. You pick one mode. The focused mode allows MW on 6s to wound. Maximum potential is 18MW, but that's so absurdly impossible you'll never see it.

3.5 * .666 * .167 * 2 = 0.8 MW on average

Spoletta wrote:
If the old blast rule has been kept, we now have interesting choices to make. A unit with 5 models takes rolls after 3 casualties, while a unit with 6 needs 4 casualties. Even numbers are to be preferred. At the same time we all know what happens at 6 models.

2 model units are immune to morale.

Another interesting point. Even if your sniper doesn't get its job done, you can still get that character to panic.

actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.

hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?

xerxeskingofking wrote:
actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.

hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?

Super cool idea, but feels like it would also be really strong. Maybe if it makes you battleshock on your turn regardless so at least you can react to losing control of the objective and try to reinforce.

I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them.

Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific.

The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them.

Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific.

The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile.

Smite is "moded" so it's one "weapon". He'll otherwise shoot everything on the profile is my guess.

As for Thousand Sons - my big question is what are squad sorcs doing? Just smite or something more interesting? Probably the former along with their own psychic FNP?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?

No. You pick one mode. The focused mode allows MW on 6s to wound. Maximum potential is 18MW, but that's so absurdly impossible you'll never see it.

3.5 * .666 * .167 * 2 = 0.8 MW on average

You forgot that smite gains one extra hit with sustained hits 1 when rolling a 6 to hit. Also smite hits on 2s with full rerolls to hit and wound against 1 enemy unit with oath of moment.

Smite is one weapon with two profiles. You cannot fire both profiles in the same way you cannot fire krak and frag missiles from the same missile launcher at the same time.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.

hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?

Super cool idea, but feels like it would also be really strong. Maybe if it makes you battleshock on your turn regardless so at least you can react to losing control of the objective and try to reinforce.

yes, sorry, i should clarify i meant it forces you to test at the same time you would for casulties, ie, YOUR command phase. these are just means to force a test without inflicting the required number of casualties for a normal test.

also, note that battleshock is a one turn affect, at least according to that article. "if you fail, that unit suffers some nasty penalties until your next turn." (emphasis mine). I cant determine if you roll every turn after going half strenght, or if its a "one and done" test, but the penatly is time-limited. I would also suspect one of the core strategems is going to be "rally" or something simmilar.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them.

Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific.

The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile.

Smite is limited in the same way as choosing frag or krak missiles is limited on the datasheet:

Before selecting torgets for this weapon, select one of its profiles to make attacks with.

I imagine for other psykers they will use similar phrasing or else just give them a single ranged weapon Psychic power.

Hits on 3s. Where do you get 2s?

He has to be in a terminator unit to get Sustained, but with full rerolls and sustained...

3.5 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 1.3
3.5 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 1.2

2.5 average

 Tyran wrote:
Smite is one weapon with two profiles. You cannot fire both profiles in the same way you cannot fire krak and frag missiles from the same missile launcher at the same time.

I know, not doing that.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
yes, sorry, i should clarify i meant it forces you to test at the same time you would for casulties, ie, YOUR command phase. these are just means to force a test without inflicting the required number of casualties for a normal test.

also, note that battleshock is a one turn affect, at least according to that article. "if you fail, that unit suffers some nasty penalties until your next turn." (emphasis mine). I cant determine if you roll every turn after going half strenght, or if its a "one and done" test, but the penatly is time-limited. I would also suspect one of the core strategems is going to be "rally" or something simmilar.

Yea we'll be rolling every affected unit each turn. And good call on the rally - definitely something in that category.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Hits on 3s. Where do you get 2s?

He has to be in a terminator unit to get Sustained, but with full rerolls and sustained...

3.5 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 1.3
3.5 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 1.2

2.5 average

Let's assume max shots --

6 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 2.2
6 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 2.1

4.3

( not that's just MW - there will be some number of regular wounds at AP2, but not against anything T12 and up )

The changes to psychic are going to be great for psychic artillery units (and Tyranids have many of those) but definitely a nerf for buff/debuff psykers.