Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 14:49:41
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
Annandale, VA
|
Having to roll every turn for every unit below half strength regardless of whether it took casualties, just rallied, etc seems clunky.
But I do like the effects. Significant, without just being 'this unit can't fight anymore'.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 14:51:53
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
|
Removed - none of this please.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 16:12:41
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 14:55:12
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Hah, yea, this will be today's lightning rod.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/04/18 16:12:48
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 14:55:14
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 14:57:14
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
Just an amalgamation of the options I guess. One or two shots with some MW opportunity and slight edge on elite infantry.
Honestly it brings up huge questions about CSM Termies.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 14:57:58
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:01:13
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
So does this mean we can no longer choose our powers?
*sad Thousand Sons noises*
On a bit of a tangent, has there been any rumours on Secondaries in 10th? Always irked me how random they are: "Sergeant, go capture that position! Scratch that, we need you to kill that specific unit over there!"
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:01:39
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I hope they see this, bro
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 16:13:01
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:05:46
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Valkyrie wrote:So does this mean we can no longer choose our powers?
*sad Thousand Sons noises*
On a bit of a tangent, has there been any rumours on Secondaries in 10th? Always irked me how random they are: "Sergeant, go capture that position! Scratch that, we need you to kill that specific unit over there!"
You might be a bit behind on secondaries - what you're describing is Maelstrom. Those are commonly used in most games atm.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:06:42
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
Possibly combi-plasma? I'm wondering if it may even be a typo as that Librarian doesn't have a combi-weapon. Regular SM Librarians can take them though so it may well be genuine and not in error.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:06:54
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
|
Daedalus81 wrote:Spoletta wrote:If the old blast rule has been kept, we now have interesting choices to make. A unit with 5 models takes rolls after 3 casualties, while a unit with 6 needs 4 casualties. Even numbers are to be preferred. At the same time we all know what happens at 6 models.
2 model units are immune to morale.
Another interesting point. Even if your sniper doesn't get its job done, you can still get that character to panic.
Hmm...I wonder if they'll allow 2 model units ( e.g. Spawn ).
Astra Miltiarium FIeld Ordnance Batteries are limited to 2 models only.
|
My armies:
14000 points |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:07:37
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
|
I'm expecting secondary objectives to be a thing but faction specific secondaries to either not be a thing or be a detachment thing.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:14:16
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
Annandale, VA
|
Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.
So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.
Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:16:22
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
catbarf wrote:Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.
So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.
Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.
It could just be a bespoke thing. What other model has a Storm Bolter + Combi?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:25:19
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
|
Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
Schrodinger's combi-weapon, it exists in a state of quantum superposition of being a flamer, plasma gun, meltagun, volkite charger, and grenade launcher all at the same time, and whether you succeed or fail at the attack collapses the wavefunction to determine what it was.
Personally I think a better approach to simplifying combi-weapons would have been to say "okay, the special weapon guy doesn't lose his boltgun" and make them just cosmetically different from having a special weapon with a boltgun slung over the shoulder (like how Star Wars Legion support weapons don't lose their basic rifle), but making the combi-weapon a single universal profile (in the same way the Flash Gitz with plasma guns and the Flash Gitz with autoguns do the same thing, or Obliterators don't have distinct weapon profiles anymore) isn't a bad idea either.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:33:49
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
AnomanderRake wrote:Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
Schrodinger's combi-weapon, it exists in a state of quantum superposition of being a flamer, plasma gun, meltagun, volkite charger, and grenade launcher all at the same time, and whether you succeed or fail at the attack collapses the wavefunction to determine what it was.
Personally I think a better approach to simplifying combi-weapons would have been to say "okay, the special weapon guy doesn't lose his boltgun" and make them just cosmetically different from having a special weapon with a boltgun slung over the shoulder (like how Star Wars Legion support weapons don't lose their basic rifle), but making the combi-weapon a single universal profile (in the same way the Flash Gitz with plasma guns and the Flash Gitz with autoguns do the same thing, or Obliterators don't have distinct weapon profiles anymore) isn't a bad idea either.
That's not how Combi-Weapons have ever been though. Orks have Combi-Weapons too.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:34:02
Subject: Re:10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:38:33
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
catbarf wrote:Spoletta wrote:I have no idea what that combi profile is meant to represent. Single shot, rapid fire 1, mortal wound on infanty on 4+, mortal wound on vehicle on 6.
I'm very confused.
I thought Anti-Infantry[4+] means it never wounds infantry on worse than 4+. Devastating Wounds then means 6s to wound become mortal wounds.
So it's a bolter, but hits on 4+ instead of 3+, never wounds infantry on worse than 4+ and ignores saves on a wound roll of 6.
Yeah I don't know what that's supposed to be either.
Anti X causes a critical wound on the determined roll.
Critical wounds become mortals with devastating wounds.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:38:38
Subject: Re:10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
p5freak wrote:Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?
No. You pick one mode. The focused mode allows MW on 6s to wound. Maximum potential is 18MW, but that's so absurdly impossible you'll never see it.
3.5 * .666 * .167 * 2 = 0.8 MW on average
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 15:39:24
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:45:09
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
|
Spoletta wrote:If the old blast rule has been kept, we now have interesting choices to make. A unit with 5 models takes rolls after 3 casualties, while a unit with 6 needs 4 casualties. Even numbers are to be preferred. At the same time we all know what happens at 6 models.
2 model units are immune to morale.
Another interesting point. Even if your sniper doesn't get its job done, you can still get that character to panic.
actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.
hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 15:45:42
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:47:48
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
xerxeskingofking wrote:actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.
hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?
Super cool idea, but feels like it would also be really strong. Maybe if it makes you battleshock on your turn regardless so at least you can react to losing control of the objective and try to reinforce.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:48:23
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
|
I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them.
Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific.
The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:51:55
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
The Red Hobbit wrote:I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them.
Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific.
The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile.
Smite is "moded" so it's one "weapon". He'll otherwise shoot everything on the profile is my guess.
As for Thousand Sons - my big question is what are squad sorcs doing? Just smite or something more interesting? Probably the former along with their own psychic FNP?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:52:09
Subject: Re:10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
Daedalus81 wrote: p5freak wrote:Smite, a single weapon, can now, in theory, do 36 MW ? 12 shots with 3 MW each ? Am i understanding that correctly ?
No. You pick one mode. The focused mode allows MW on 6s to wound. Maximum potential is 18MW, but that's so absurdly impossible you'll never see it.
3.5 * .666 * .167 * 2 = 0.8 MW on average
You forgot that smite gains one extra hit with sustained hits 1 when rolling a 6 to hit. Also smite hits on 2s with full rerolls to hit and wound against 1 enemy unit with oath of moment.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:52:19
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
|
Smite is one weapon with two profiles. You cannot fire both profiles in the same way you cannot fire krak and frag missiles from the same missile launcher at the same time.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:54:16
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
|
Daedalus81 wrote:xerxeskingofking wrote:actually, they could introduce a "pinning" ability to certain weapons that force a battleshock test if you suffer any wounds form them, like snipers, or some of the more horrifying weapons in the lore, or units with something like Warhammer Fantasy battles "Fear" ability, that would again force a battleshock if you were in melee with the unit.
hell, I;d be suprised if the tryanids dont have something like that. maybe it will be the Night lords detachment ability (or rather, the CSM detachment that is "favoured" by the night lords)?
Super cool idea, but feels like it would also be really strong. Maybe if it makes you battleshock on your turn regardless so at least you can react to losing control of the objective and try to reinforce.
yes, sorry, i should clarify i meant it forces you to test at the same time you would for casulties, ie, YOUR command phase. these are just means to force a test without inflicting the required number of casualties for a normal test.
also, note that battleshock is a one turn affect, at least according to that article. "if you fail, that unit suffers some nasty penalties until your next turn." (emphasis mine). I cant determine if you roll every turn after going half strenght, or if its a "one and done" test, but the penatly is time-limited. I would also suspect one of the core strategems is going to be "rally" or something simmilar.
|
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:56:27
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
The Red Hobbit wrote:I like what they're doing with this, the as Catbarf noted rolling for every unit can be a bit much but the effects are significant and I overall like them. Psychic phase is hit and miss, I like how they integrate it into each phase, but the downside appears to be we don't get much flexibility in our power choice anymore. Unless for armies like 1k Sons and Eldar they plan on making some of the psychic powers stratagems and then detachment specific. The Librarian examples brings up an interesting question. Previously they could smite in one phase and shoot in another, will they be limited to just one shooting attack in 10th? Or will they be able to shoot everything that isn't a pistol, or just pistols that turn. If it's the latter I'm curious how they'll phrase it so you can't fire off both Psychic powers on your profile. Smite is limited in the same way as choosing frag or krak missiles is limited on the datasheet: Before selecting torgets for this weapon, select one of its profiles to make attacks with.
I imagine for other psykers they will use similar phrasing or else just give them a single ranged weapon Psychic power.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 15:56:40
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:56:59
Subject: Re:10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Hits on 3s. Where do you get 2s?
He has to be in a terminator unit to get Sustained, but with full rerolls and sustained...
3.5 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 1.3
3.5 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 1.2
2.5 average
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/18 15:57:40
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:57:14
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
Tyran wrote:Smite is one weapon with two profiles. You cannot fire both profiles in the same way you cannot fire krak and frag missiles from the same missile launcher at the same time.
I know, not doing that.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 15:58:35
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
xerxeskingofking wrote:yes, sorry, i should clarify i meant it forces you to test at the same time you would for casulties, ie, YOUR command phase. these are just means to force a test without inflicting the required number of casualties for a normal test.
also, note that battleshock is a one turn affect, at least according to that article. "if you fail, that unit suffers some nasty penalties until your next turn." (emphasis mine). I cant determine if you roll every turn after going half strenght, or if its a "one and done" test, but the penatly is time-limited. I would also suspect one of the core strategems is going to be "rally" or something simmilar.
Yea we'll be rolling every affected unit each turn. And good call on the rally - definitely something in that category.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:Hits on 3s. Where do you get 2s?
He has to be in a terminator unit to get Sustained, but with full rerolls and sustained...
3.5 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 1.3
3.5 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 1.2
2.5 average
Let's assume max shots --
6 * .306 * 2 * .306 * 2 = 2.2
6 * .582 * .306 * 2 = 2.1
4.3
( not that's just MW - there will be some number of regular wounds at AP2, but not against anything T12 and up )
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/04/18 16:01:50
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/04/18 16:00:34
Subject: 10th Edition Gameplay and Rules news and discussion - Morale and Psychic phases pg 38
|
 |
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
|
The changes to psychic are going to be great for psychic artillery units (and Tyranids have many of those) but definitely a nerf for buff/debuff psykers.
|
|
 |
 |
|