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Couple of nitpicks (sorry):

@Tsagualsa: Oath of Moment is a Codex Space Marine faction ability- armies that use the Space Marine index or Codex will have it; this means that DA/ BA/ SW/ DW and possibly BT are unlikely to have it, since they seem to be getting their own Codexes, and I assume Indexes.

@Jidmah: Oath of moment is a faction ability, not a detachment ability.

Again, sorry about this guys- don't mean to "well akshually" you, but just want to keep it clear.

PenitentJake wrote:
Couple of nitpicks (sorry):

@Tsagaulsa: Oath of Moment is a Codex Space Marine faction ability- armies that use the Space Marine index or Codex will have it; this means that DA/ BA/ SW/ DW and possibly BT are unlikely to have it, since they seem to be getting their own Codexes, and I assume Indexes.

@Jidmah: Oath of moment is a faction ability, not a detachment ability.

Again, sorry about this guys- don't mean to "well akshually" you, but just want to keep it clear.

Fair enough, it's a not-unimportant distinction, non-compliant chapters may get another Faction Ability, probably everybody who gets their own full codex (and not e.g. a supplement) will, but that remains to be seen. I guess we'll learn in the coming weeks once they come to preview e.g. Blood Angels or Space Wolves etc.

PenitentJake wrote:
Couple of nitpicks (sorry):

@Tsagualsa: Oath of Moment is a Codex Space Marine faction ability- armies that use the Space Marine index or Codex will have it; this means that DA/ BA/ SW/ DW and possibly BT are unlikely to have it, since they seem to be getting their own Codexes, and I assume Indexes.

I don't think this is correct.
For one, its a Adeptus Astartes faction ability, not a 'codex space marine' faction ability.

Second, in the marine article yesterday, they talk about chapters and detachments with a footnote:

The standard doctrine of the Codex Astartes emphasises flexibility – as exemplified by the Gladius Task Force Detachment. This battle-tested formation is available to every Space Marine Chapter, whether they’re slavish adherents of the Codex Astartes or slightly more eccentric.*

*Several other famously less conventional Chapters – including the likes of the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels – will get their own unique Detachment rules. You’ll be able to choose which ones to use as you compose your army list.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/02/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-space-marines-2/

So the differential for the snowflake chapters is at the detachment level, not the faction level. At least from what we know so far.


On a practical level, different faction abilities for different space marine chapters means reprinting _everything_ , every time. All the datacards become unshared as soon as that happens.
Which, actually, we know isn't happening since the land raider datacard straight up references Wulfen. If Space Woof Land Raiders get their own card, there's no need to do that.

PenitentJake wrote:
@Jidmah: Oath of moment is a faction ability, not a detachment ability.

Again, sorry about this guys- don't mean to "well akshually" you, but just want to keep it clear.

Thanks, I've corrected my post.


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Voss wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Couple of nitpicks (sorry):

@Tsagualsa: Oath of Moment is a Codex Space Marine faction ability- armies that use the Space Marine index or Codex will have it; this means that DA/ BA/ SW/ DW and possibly BT are unlikely to have it, since they seem to be getting their own Codexes, and I assume Indexes.

I don't think this is correct.
For one, its a Adeptus Astartes faction ability, not a 'codex space marine' faction ability.

Second, in the marine article yesterday, they talk about chapters and detachments with a footnote:

The standard doctrine of the Codex Astartes emphasises flexibility – as exemplified by the Gladius Task Force Detachment. This battle-tested formation is available to every Space Marine Chapter, whether they’re slavish adherents of the Codex Astartes or slightly more eccentric.*

*Several other famously less conventional Chapters – including the likes of the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels – will get their own unique Detachment rules. You’ll be able to choose which ones to use as you compose your army list.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/02/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-space-marines-2/

So the differential for the snowflake chapters is at the detachment level, not the faction level. At least from what we know so far.

Maybe, maybe not. From the Warhammer Fest Q&A we also know that the snowflakes each get their own index card sets, and I doubt they will do that just for the special characters and units.

Oath of Moment seems really fluffy for Space Wolves; no reason why they wouldn't get that ability.

Can you imagine all of the boasting and "oaths" thrown around before the battle is joined?

I'm assuming that Grey Knights will still be "Sanctic Astartes" and won't have OoM. Which also means they probably won't get any of the "Astartes" benefits from Guilliman. =(

Is anyone a little bit scared by marines with assault cannon spam with rowboat and oath of moment ? Full rerolls against one enemy unit fishing for 6s to wound, and after killing the first enemy unit, going after the second enemy unit with the same procedure ?

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Oath of Moment seems really fluffy for Space Wolves; no reason why they wouldn't get that ability.

Can you imagine all of the boasting and "oaths" thrown around before the battle is joined?

I'm assuming that Grey Knights will still be "Sanctic Astartes" and won't have OoM. Which also means they probably won't get any of the "Astartes" benefits from Guilliman. =(

Sanguinus Astartes, Canis Astartes, Tristis Astartes, Iratus Astartes, Xenophobus Astartes...

 kodos wrote:
if it is only this, it is the most complicated way to write it into rules

USR A: successful wounds on x+ against Keyword ignoring the targets toughness

GW-USR A: on a wound roll of X+ against Keyword see USR B what happens

someone did not understood why people hated GW-USRs in the first place

That's not how it is.

Anti-Vehicle simply turns any roll to a critical wound, which is a success.
If you were to have Devastating Wounds in that unit then any critical wound ALSO causes mortal wounds.

Critical wounds are a mechanic - not a USR.


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tneva82 wrote:
2cp/battle round isn't no stratagems t1/t2. 3/4 cp not enough to use?

Guilliman might not give cp but gives free stratagem per turn, even if stratagem been used. If there's any 2cp stratagems that's 2cp saved

As a side note that's a key thing to consider - people think Bobby is just going to hand out Oath all of the time, but there's likely lots of opportunity in a 0CP strat. Especially turn 1.

I'm really interested how running a soup army works in the new edition. They showed us how imperial agents works, and I believe I read something about missing different factions (like guard and admech) wouldn't be possible.
The question I have is, would it be possible to run the Lion and Guilliman together?

 Eldarsif wrote:
This is the right answer. People like to focus on big number units and scream that lethality hasn't gone down, but overall infantry weapons that got AP in last edition are being scaled back and toughness of many models are going up. This also helps to create a clear distinction of lethality between a single marine and god like heroes like Roboute.

It's definitely down. Multiple weapons have lost range, AP, and relative strength.

The only thing people are keying off of are majority melee profiles. The Screamer Killer has 1 less attack than before, but lots of people on Facebook are like, 'wow 10 attacks! super OP!'.


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 p5freak wrote:
Is anyone a little bit scared by marines with assault cannon spam with rowboat and oath of moment ? Full rerolls against one enemy unit fishing for 6s to wound, and after killing the first enemy unit, going after the second enemy unit with the same procedure ?

That's a lot of assault cannons. If Razorbacks go twin linked then it totally nullifies the benefit of OoM for wound rolls and halves the shots.

A single AssCan produces 1.6 MW with full rerolls.

3 termies, 6 razorbacks, and bobby are 1500 at present. You'll probably be required to fill those transports so that's the remaining points. That gives you 9 assault cannons, which gives 14.4 MW from damn near your entire army -- if you can get them all within 24" of the first target.

Brickfix wrote:
I'm really interested how running a soup army works in the new edition. They showed us how imperial agents works, and I believe I read something about missing different factions (like guard and admech) wouldn't be possible.
The question I have is, would it be possible to run the Lion and Guilliman together?

I don't think that's going to be a thing any more. They mentioned Imperial Agents and Knights of both varieties being able to act as allies (and possibly Daemons, IIRC) but there won' be any souping like we've seen in the past, at least according to the info released so far.

Cor!



Blimey!

That’s a helluva gun! Guess it helps no more than 3 per Detachment/Army.

The Rupture Cannon is actually slightly worse than its current incarnation. It's lost a shot and the S18 is just the adjustment for the increased T on monsters and vehicles, which keeps it in line with where it is now. 2d6 damage is nice, but the Laser Destroyer's D6+4 is better for consistency. It's still a great gun, but I think we need to recalibrate our expectations for S values on these weapons in 10th.

A few things that make the design of Nids really fantastic --

- Where it seems Marines get USRs from their leaders Nids get it from their detachment, which can potentially allow for the characters to do other shenanigans.
- Shadow in the Warp isn't a 'screw you psykers' meaning fewer skew issues
- Synapse shows that few, if any units will be able to ignore battleshock. Nids can still fail on a 3D6 ( about 20% on LD8+ ).

 Daedalus81 wrote:
A few things that make the design of Nids really fantastic --

- Where it seems Marines get USRs from their leaders Nids get it from their detachment, which can potentially allow for the characters to do other shenanigans.
- Shadow in the Warp isn't a 'screw you psykers' meaning fewer skew issues
- Synapse shows that few, if any units will be able to ignore battleshock. Nids can still fail on a 3D6 ( about 20% on LD8+ ).

The 3D6 synapse I like.

It gives playstyle insentive which I think feeds narratively.

It gives a good game and narrative feel to target the bigger things to try and break the rest of the army into uncoordinated or feeing armies.

Shame we had to lose Synaptic Link to do all this...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shame we had to lose Synaptic Link to do all this...

Yea that was a really cool set of rules. Perhaps we'll see a detachment with that instead of Synapse that lets you play with more buffs, but less reliable battleshock. Though that kind of flies in the face of Nid identity a bit unless it's worded with some sensible explanation.

If this swarmlord is meant to represent a level 3 psyker, then thousand sons may not like this edition.

For sure they have cut a whole phase time wise.

Brickfix wrote:
I'm really interested how running a soup army works in the new edition. They showed us how imperial agents works, and I believe I read something about missing different factions (like guard and admech) wouldn't be possible.
The question I have is, would it be possible to run the Lion and Guilliman together?

Unclear. What they did said that allies (in their example, a Knight) are used by taking data cards, from another deck, but they don't get a two-pager. So no detachment abilities, no stratagems or enhancements.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shame we had to lose Synaptic Link to do all this...

Yea that was a really cool set of rules. Perhaps we'll see a detachment with that instead of Synapse that lets you play with more buffs, but less reliable battleshock. Though that kind of flies in the face of Nid identity a bit unless it's worded with some sensible explanation.

Synapse is a faction rule, not detachment. A different detachment would replace Hyper-adaptations from the earlier article.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

3 termies, 6 razorbacks, and bobby are 1500 at present. You'll probably be required to fill those transports so that's the remaining points. That gives you 9 assault cannons, which gives 14.4 MW from damn near your entire army -- if you can get them all within 24" of the first target.

Its unlikely that razorbacks keep their asscannons, its not on the sprue, and will most likely not be a weapon option. Gladiator reaper now have 24 shots with a twin heavy onslaught gatling canon, which will probably get 12 shots and twin linked. Redemptors have 12+6 shots with heavy and normal asscannon.

Slipspace wrote:
The Rupture Cannon is actually slightly worse than its current incarnation. It's lost a shot and the S18 is just the adjustment for the increased T on monsters and vehicles, which keeps it in line with where it is now. 2d6 damage is nice, but the Laser Destroyer's D6+4 is better for consistency. It's still a great gun, but I think we need to recalibrate our expectations for S values on these weapons in 10th.

Agreed. 2D6 is stupid.

 p5freak wrote:
Agreed. 2D6 is stupid.

Another example of non-iterative rules.

9th saw a change to more fixed damage as everyone was sick of super-swingy weapons. Seems they learnt nothing. As usual.

Spoletta wrote:
If this swarmlord is meant to represent a level 3 psyker, then thousand sons may not like this edition.

For sure they have cut a whole phase time wise.

It is my biggest concern for the faction. Ultimately it will be fine - just different from what we're used to. I hope the "spells" TS does get are diverse enough to fill the gaps.

Not really a fan of these "if you get lucky, you one-shot something fairly big" weapons. But there we go.

I initially had a very negative take on 2D6 damage - but in practice, 2D6 is a lot less random than 1D6. Admittedly, that won't help you feeling bad when you roll a 2-4 etc.

Voss wrote:
Synapse is a faction rule, not detachment. A different detachment would replace Hyper-adaptations from the earlier article.

True - thanks - so that could swap out for some mechanic.


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Tyel wrote:
Not really a fan of these "if you get lucky, you one-shot something fairly big" weapons. But there we go.

I initially had a very negative take on 2D6 damage - but in practice, 2D6 is a lot less random than 1D6. Admittedly, that won't help you feeling bad when you roll a 2-4 etc.

Yea, but those results will be pretty rare. This isn't a case of GW not knowing how to make things less random ( not saying you said that ). It's a deliberate choice.

It is particularly interesting that we have been shown 2 big guns which are around equal, and one is D6+4 and the other 2D6.

So they indeed wanted it to be random.

 p5freak wrote:
Its unlikely that razorbacks keep their asscannons, its not on the sprue, and will most likely not be a weapon option. Gladiator reaper now have 24 shots with a twin heavy onslaught gatling canon, which will probably get 12 shots and twin linked. Redemptors have 12+6 shots with heavy and normal asscannon.

Mmm, right. Forgot that HOGC/OGC are picking up DW, but losing 6". That's about 5 MW per dread / repulsor if they take all OGC. Bobby, 3 Dreads, 3 Repulsors, and 2 Termie squads should be about 2K and could give you 33 MW if you can get them in 24".

Your OC will be absolutely atrocious though and there's little to keep Bobby on the table.

Ultimately it's going to come to points and missions.

27 MW to be more accurate.

You will probably not get to fit all that in 2k.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Agreed. 2D6 is stupid.

Another example of non-iterative rules.

9th saw a change to more fixed damage as everyone was sick of super-swingy weapons. Seems they learnt nothing. As usual.

It's 2 shots likely hitting on 2's (if they don't move).

So, that gun has a place in the army I would think. Not that's it's an "auto include", but pretty dang useful.

tneva82 wrote:

Breton wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Breton wrote:


Anti-[KW] X+ - Automatically does Critical Wound to [Key Word] on Wound roll of X+.
One of the first things I'm looking for is what a Critical Wound is vs a Mortal Wound.

Automatically wounds whether or not roll matched what s vs t comparison says.

Chainfist attacking t15 vehicle needing 5+? No biggie. Any roll of 3+ wounds.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/04/just-how-tough-are-terminators-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

That still doesn't explain what a Critical Wound is. I mean a Wound, a Critical Wound, a Mortal Wound? A Wound can armor save, a Mortal Wound can't, what happens to a Critical Wound?

The article literally says. Automatic wound usually archieved by unmodified 6.

You did read whole article right? Read again.

I've also read several editions that didn't call a 6 automatically wounding a critical wound. It was still just a basic wound. Even Poison wounds (which is what it feels like Anti-X is trying to empulate/replace only dealt regular wounds not critical wounds. They have created a third category of wounds that may or may not be significant. But if its not significant why did they create it?